We - and the dogs - have had a good Christmas - they've all been inside for most of the time, and behaved really well, apart from Gypsy (oldest labrador, age 9) grumbling at the rest of the girls, but they've all ignored her.

However, this morning, we were letting them all out into the garden - Thor was out with Beau, Loki & Freya were out, I went to let Vinnie out of her kennel & Adrian let Gypsy out of the house when all hell let loose!  Gypsy suddenly snapped and snarled at Freya, went for her face - so Freya piled into her, as did Loki.   Gypsy did her usual thing of rolling over onto her back - - but still snapping and snarling, so Freya & Loki kept going in.   I pulled Freya off by her tail & shoved her into the kitchen, then back to Loki, who is holding onto Gypsy's scruff.  I got her off too, shoved her into the kitchen as well - Ad shoved the boys - who were just bouncing & making lots of noise on the lawn and not really getting involved - thank goodness.    Gypsy got up - on her own, thank goodness - and I shoved her into the utility room.   Adrian is now in a state of shock & almost fainting, so gave him first aid first - cup of coffee, some breakfast, cleaned up the nick he had on his wrist, then looked at the dogs.   Loki has a slight bite on her face - on her muzzle - & on one leg.  Freya has been bitten above the eye - well above thank goodness.   And Gypsy has a ripped ear - again - and bites to her belly.    So, I've just done 2 trips to the vets - couldn't dare risk taking all 3 together - Freya & Loki have just got abs. but have had to leave Gypsy there for stitching under a GA :(

This makes the third time we've had to do this - Gypsy always starts something that she cannot finish - and I'm almost at my wits' end about it all.   Apart from everything else, its the effect that it has on Adrian that worries me - he may just forget to shut a door and then we've got WW3 starting.   This time the vet's bill will be in the region of £350 :(

Just having a moan and feeling down about it all :(

Margot

... and just when you think it's all quiet!  :rolleyes:

It always happens when you least expect it Margot.  Hope they all recover quickly and get back to a quiet life.

Best wishes

Oh Margot - how horrible, and how stressful :( Its always the same, these things happen just when you are least expecting them. Chin up - what doesn't kill us makes us stronger :)

What a nightmare! I have only one dog but was considering another. I don't think I could cope with fights, so maybe I'm best stiking to one.

Well, I;m just about to go and collect the Battling Beauty from the Vets - she's all stitched up, etc etc etc - and no, its not covered by insurance :(  It's going to come to £395.00 :(

And to think that last night, I was proposing having the aussies & labs dna tested - that money has gone now    Will have to wait for the next opportunity.

As its turning so cold, we weren't using the kennels at night .....I'm still thinking which room can I shut Gypsy in, to keep her from the others.   I might have to crate her of course, depending on just how much activity she's going to be allowed.   She may be 8 years in 8, but she still hurtles round like a lab of 8 months :(

Margot

It's a shame when bitches don't get on. Yes, I've been there, but eventually decided to rehome one of them. It was either that or living on eggshells for the rest of their lives (or mine ) I hope everything settles down for you, Margot.

Trouble is, Lindy, it's always Gypsy who starts these bundles - and sadly, always Gypsy who comes off worst!   I really don't want to admit defeat and rehome her - she's 8, for heavens' sake - but we're going to really have to think this one through properly.:(

Oooh - Margot, I'm so sorry for you :( It's bad enough when human children have squabbles, but with dogs it can end up with more than a few scratches etc :( Can't help with what to do about it, as having only one of each I don't often get a problem - but I'd wait until things have cooled down a bit and have a think about it - don't do anything hastily :) I so often wish that I could reason with Tara and that she could understand better what I'm saying :D :D

Take care

Daisy

Margot, the age doesn't matter. My Krishna was 8 when I had to rehome her (I think, age is catching up on me ;) ) She was the instigator too. Though I always managed to split them I was always frightened that my daughter would get in the way by accident. Neither bitch was happy with the other one there. After I had rehomed Krishna both bitches calmed down. The change was very noticable. Obviously the decision has to be well thought out, but if you are all on edge sometimes you have to make a decision that you really don't want to have to make. :(  I'm not trying to make the decision for you, just letting you know my experience.

Your input is much appreciated, Lindy - we're going to sit down & have a serious think about it.   Strange really, we've always been the once to take in other peoples' problems, not pass on our own - if you know what I mean :rolleyes:

She's back home, and I've got her in a crate in the dining room at the moment - think we can just about work it around :D

Margot

So sorry to hear what's happened, Margot. I've no experience of argumentative bitches (other than being accused of it, myself!!) but just want to send best wishes for what is obviously going to be a rather "thoughtful" time for you. Hope the Battling Beauty is feeling better after her expensive attentions at the vet too.

Sorry to hear the bad news:rolleyes:, i hope you can come to a good compremise whats suits use all.

Warm regards Susan

So sorry to hear this Margot :(

Hope you can work things out, I can well understand how stressful this can be, hope all the injured parties heal well.

{{{BIG HUGS}}}

Dill

hi Margot how old are your bitches ? i hope everything is o.k i to have 3 bitches what age did they start to fall out

Sorry to hear about all the hassle and grief Margot :( May I suggest you open that Bombay Sapphire and pour a large one...........sounds like you need it.

liberty ;)

Gypsy is 8, Loki is 6, Vinnie is 3, and Freya is 2 (with little Missie approx 12 weeks :) )

The falling outs started around 3 years ago, after Loki had her pups (Vinnie being one of them) and probably, as Purdey's strength was failing, and was no longer recognised by the whole pack as Alpha Dog.   Gypsy isn't an alpha dog type - and I think that's where the problem lies.   When I'm with them, I'm top dog, but Adrian is too soft with them, and lets them get away with murder - and that's where the problem lies I think!

I recently saw Krishna again. She is now almost 12 years old and is looking well! She obviously loves her 'new family' and they dote on her. Kali, my other bitch, died last year, aged 12. She wasn't 'alpha bitch' material, just wanted to part of the family, but she wouldn't be pushed around. When I think about it the problems started after Krishna had a litter. Ok, only one pup , but she still obviously felt more dominant ;) Bitches will protect their young, after all. Hadn't really thought about it before. Looks like I'll have to watch my lot in a couple of years time when I have my next litter Thinking of you, and your family, while you decide what's next. :D

I can sypathise with you Margot... it is not easy...Up until a few months ago, I have to say I have never had any problems, not even an annoying grumble....Then Summer decided she needed to assert herself...I decided she didnt ;)   Emma is Alpha, but Emma was doing maternity duties at the time.. Blue and Summer decided to hate each other with a vengence and are no longer even allowed to be in adjoining rooms, needing two doors between them at all times...Thankfully I dont have 'an Adrian' ;)

However, unlike you, if any of my lot start, none of the others will join in,,, they scatter and turn a blind eye, allowing me to deal with only 2 'participants'   But outside, I can mix and match any of them except Blue (not sure what to do now, as she paired up with Ellie outside)

I can understand your dilema, but to be fair on her and the others, you have to weigh up all the options...even at 8 years old....would she be better in a home where she has the freedom to roam the house. Will all you dogs suffer from you elevating stress levels, worrying about doors, dogs and Adrian....

I dont envy you in making any decision, but I can empathise

Oh Margot,
My heart goes out to you. We have a similar issue with 2 males (one was an unsocialised 2 year old rescue dog who has no idea how to behave properly around other dogs). They have had 3 major fights over the years, the last one being the most horrific experience I have had with my dogs. I thought they would kill each other.
To cut a long story short - we have adapted our lives around these two dogs whereby they don't have any contact with each other within the house (oddly they are fine together when outwith the house). We have fitted dog gates to certain rooms and have outdoor kennels so that we can ensure their contact with each other is nil. Rehoming was considered but we decided against this (sometimes I wonder whether that was for my own reasons rather than for the best interests of both dogs). However, locking gates and the like have become second nature to myself and hubby now and both dogs live full and happy lives apart from one another. It can be done, but only you can decide what is best in your circumstance.
One word of caution, their 2nd fight occured when one HAD been left in a crate. God only knows what happened but I came home to a mangled and collapsed crate and two very badly injured dogs
All the best

Lokis mum, so sorry to hear of your bitches fall out (and that horrendous vet bill) there really is nothing worse than dogs laying into each other.  I hope that you can sort the situation out.

I wish you luck and hope this is the last fight and the last vet bill. It's sad when bitches don't get along. For the owners more than the dogs. :-(

You and me both Margot. :( We had managed for the best part of 7 years, but things got to a head. Huge problem was, my troublemaker (ALWAYS the one to start, ALWAYS the one to be undamaged, with the others needing the vet care) was older, elbow dysplasia, incontinent etc. After many weeks of talking and discussing with each other and friends etc, today we went to the vet and spoke to him as well -and then said a final goodbye to Elsa.

I have never felt so guilty in all my life before, ever.  Nor have I ever seen my poor husband so upset. But none of us could see any other way. Re-homing, in our case, simply was not an option, and this couldn't go on. :(

My heart goes out to you Goldmali, what a terrible descision to have to make. Hopefully the peace you must now feel in your home will help you to overcome the guilt and sadness you are feeling today.

Thanks Lyssa. yes it is a remarkable difference already, all is so calm..........

Oh dear I am sorry to hear about this :(

How are things now ? Have you decided what you are going to do ?

If you do decide to rehome her she isn't too old as there are alot of people that would prefer to rehome an older dog and I am sure a very good home could be found for her :)

You know I will help out if you need me to :)

Lucy
xx

Really sorry to hear about the problems, Margot.

I hope things do manage to be sorted out for you :)

Lindsay
x

I really know how you feel, and if you have read my recent post "Why have they started fighting?" you'll know I am going through the same thing. I haven't yet had 3 years of it like you (although I have been through it in the past), it has only just started, but does seem to have come about because Lottie had a litter. If I had thought for one moment that breeding would have rocked the boat like it has I would never had bred from her, her temperament was 110% before and I wanted to start my own line, but hadn't bargained for the subsequent troubles.

I hope things sort themselves out.

Oh Margot, having had no experience like yours I cannot even begin to offer advice, I can only offer you my sincere empathy. Reading this has brought a tear to my eye. I hope you manage to work things out soon.

Best wishes, Glenda

My friend rehomed her boy at almost 11, he lived another healthy 5 years!  So although I know it's something that none of us would like to do sometimes there comes a point as to where you have to.

Goldimal, so sorry to hear about your dog.  Fortunately with my situation my parents were able to take on my youngest.  Lydia my eldest girl now gets on with all of my other dogs and Carme my mum and dad's puppy without any problems.  Unfortunately Lana and Lydia just never got on.

I really feel for you Margot, I had to let Missie go (to my sisters) a few months back as she just couldn't hack the 'leos' any more and although she is 12 she still took them on! They only wanted to play though but she was having none of it :( and kept going for their faces. I wasn't so worried about Maddie as she would back off when Missie warned her but Molly is a different kettle of fish, totally saw it as a challenge and was afraid the old girl would come off worse. Pleased to say she is living the life of Riley with sis and is spoilt rotten, just how she should be, and I still get to see her.
I do hope you can work something out as its not nice, I know, when they don't get on.

Dee

What a horrible situation must be a really stressful way of life. I hope you find a good solution as it doesn't sound like your present situation is working out. It's not as though these are small incidents, your dogs are getting badly hurt so i don't think anyone would think you a bad person for having to let one of your dogs go, apart from maybe your self. Keep us updated.

Thanks for all your good wishes - the girls are all healing nicely, I'm glad to say, although the "balance" still isn't right - girls that have always got along together (not including Gypsy in this) are all very "needy" and wanting lots of fusses, and getting agitated if another is getting a fuss.  So, until this all dies down, we're keeping them all separated - its a good job we've got a biggish house - Gypsy is in crate in dining room, beside me as I post - she is in the crate by preference - I've brought her bed in here, but she seems to want the reassurance of the bars between her and anyone else - she growls if any dog as much as puts a nose around the door!

I'm dividing "living room time" between the girls in the evening, otherwise one is in the kitchen, one in the porch, one in living room - boys just lazing in living room all the time :D

Gypsy has to go back to the vet tomorrow, for a check.   I want to see if the blood tests showed up anything untoward, and once we have that information, we shall know which way we are going.

Its such a shame - but I do think that we shall be rehoming Gypsy i - its the only way - she obviously cannot cope with the pressure of being a member of a pack, and I certainly cannot cope with this sort of upset any more :( .  She deserves a nice comfy home, on a one-to-one basis, and we've just got to sort out where it will be.   The others all deserve the balance that we've always managed before this.  

Margot

Margot

Hi Margot,

Glad to hear that emergency ward 10 alert status has been removed ;)  After a major fracas it's normal for them to be looking for reassurance and I'm sure none are being deprived of their usual TLC plus a little extra on the side.

If it comes to you needing to re-home Gypsy I know you'll be really sad but it could well be the answer to a much happier life for all in the long run and I know you'll home her with someone who'll adore her and keep you posted on her regularly.

Wishing you and yours all the best whatever the outcome.  Teri :)

Sorry to read this Margot.

When my best friend lost her dog who was leader of the pack all hell broke out amoung the bitches.  Strangely enough the one causing the problems was an eight year old black lab, who then was the oldest of the pack.

She did live with it for the next five years until she died, but it was a case of keeping her separate at all times and caging her when they went out.  I really think she should have rehomed her as neither my friend or her husband enjoyed the dogs over that time and the bitch certainly couldn't have had much fun either.

They were fine out on a walk in the fields, but confined to the house, garden or car she turned into the devil dog and of course this rubbed off on the others who were always grumbling.

A hard decision, don't envy you but after seeing the way my friend lived I would not hesitate in rehoming if it ever happened here, for our sanity aswell as the other dogs.

Sandra

I am glad the girls are all coming along nicely healing wise :)

Its appalling that we have no restrictions on dog owning. You whoever you are have not put in enough training time to begin with and you have never taken the trouble to teach these dogs to live as a harmonious pack, neither have you taken the trouble to learn anything about dogs. This sort of thing is easily read in the behavioural interactions of the pack long before such dreadful events happen and the dogs suffer the pain and harm - Oh that poor, poor dog going into shock it's a miracle it ever survived.

And your post, not the slightest sign that you are going to bring in a behaviourist for educational counselling, not one hint that you are going to start to learn anything about dogs living in a pack. I suggest and everyone must agree that you stop posting on sites like this until you yourself have learned enough about dogs to understand and predict them, pahh puppy farms everywhere, the pain and suffering these dogs have gone through because of your negligent ways is disgusting, how can you even think of giveing advice when you obviously know so little?
For heavens sake woman hire a behaviourist from APBC and LEARN some of the elementary things about dogs, you owe that to these poor dogs now.

:rolleyes:

See my other post.    I am totally unrepentant.   Now I have other things to do.

Lokis Mum

Tut tut - you read the words and not the style :rolleyes::D

You're slipping ;)

Cheryl

;)

Margot

LOL Margot - ;)

Daisy

Shame we don't have restrictions on Dennis's either ;)

I know a canine Dennis and he is an absolute Gentleman :D

Shame he can't teach the TROLL Dennis how to behave then isn't it?? :D :D :D:cool:

Or at the very least to 'zzzzzziiip it up!'

Ah the canine Denis likes the sound of his own voice a lot

:D :D

Hmm.... I think it's quite useful to have someone like Dennis the resident troll.  His/Her posts are like mini exercises in how to spot a troll When I first read the Clem post the tone put me on guard and I thought troll and then picked up a couple of common Dennisisms.  Because the thread was Margot's and thepost was directed at her she reacted emotionally which is what he was aiming at.  If it hadn't been such an emotive subject Margot would have spotted it in seconds. ;)

I did realise it was Dennis (if you'd read my response on his other post, where I said I had to go & beat the other dogs into submission & maybe feed them a cat or two, you'd have realised :D ;) )

I couldn't remember the icon for sticking out tongue (really wanted one sticking up 2 fingers

Margot :D

He is a creep isn't he? I wonder what he's like in real life (CD is another dimension :D)  Wonder if he tries it on and gets away with it or whether he is a frustrated soul who is downtrodden in all other areas of his life.  Except his dog of course which would be the only living creature he could control.  Hmm even then the methods of control are suspect. 

Better go now because I am having weird thoughts

I did read the other post but not until after I had posted on this thread.  Thought it was strange you hadn't noticed, silly me.

There should at least be an icon of a troll or even a white smilie with black rimmed eyes, black hair and black lipstick with miserable mouth