We got our new sheltie little girl on Boxing Day :)  She is 7 months old and is an adorable bundle of fluff :)  She has settled in very well in all areas and is already a much loved part of the family :)  The one thing we have a concern over is weeing.  She will hold on, and hold on for 12+ hours and then finally when she can hold it no more the flood gates open.  This has been 3 times in the car during the day and twice in my bedroom on a night bless her.  We feel so sorry for her cos she is obviously desperate (restless, circling, sniffing and whining on and off) but, despite us taking her outside every couple of hours and staying in the garden for 20+ minutes at a time she still refuses to wet outside.  She will do 'number two's' but not wee's which I find very confusing.  Every night since we got her I have taken her out at 11pm, stayed outside with her until 12:30am and she still hasn't let go.  I have been told that sheltie bitches are notorious for not doing their business away from home and obviously at the moment she doesn't know that our home IS her home and it will take a few weeks to adjust properly.  But I'm just curious as to whether or not anyone has any suggestions on how we can encourage her to wee outside?

We've been advised by the breeder to put a baby gate across the back door, leave it open a bit and watch her from the kitchen window.  Then when we see her do a wee go out and praise her to the heavens.  However, our view is blocked by the conservatory and garage plus there are shrubs she can go behind so we really need to be in the garden with her.

I've put a puppy pad down outside that I mopped up some of her wee from in the car with and she does sniff it every time she goes out but thats it.  She has no problem pooing when being watched at all.  We just need her to do one wee outside, then go overboard on the praise for her to know that its ok to do it there then we'll be over the first hurdle with it.

We know that she was fully housetrained before coming to us but of course we expected some 'accidents' and were totally prepared but we're just not used to a bitch holding on for as long as she is and refusing to let go!  Our previous sheltie bitch would go several times a day anywhere (be it out on a walk or in the garden) and of course the dog would pee up anything so this is totally new to us.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated :)

At the moment my dogs hate going in the garden to have a wee (just because it is so cold) so instead of letting them outside to go to the toilet I take them out for a quick 5 minute walk.  This usually stimulates them to wee and poo.  Perhaps this will help.

Although it might be different because I have dogs rather than bitches.

Perhaps someone else has some advice!

Just to double check, are you sure it's not also linked to fireworks, as many dogs get very worried about going into the garden at this time of year?

Lindsay
x

No not to do with fireworks - they didn't even bat an eyelid on bonfire night!!! LOL

It has snowed where we are and they don't like getting their paws too cold!!!  How daft!!!

There's no fireworks going off at all round our area.  Probably will be New Years Eve but by then hopefully we'll have had our first outside wee :)  Then I can try and encourage her to wee before say 8pm which is about when the fireworks start to go until about midnight.  Our other dogs used to hate any noise (thunder, fireworks etc) but we know how to 'deal' with it :)

She won't do anything on a walk (20+ minutes) apart from have a little sniff bless her.  Its to do with the not wanting to go away from home thing.

Hi peewee

Bitches, particularly those of a sensitive breed such as a SSD can be problematic with toileting.

If the vet is sure that there is no UTI etc which may cause her to hold on, then we need to look at the factors that may need to be considered.

From your post you indicate that perhaps you have been led to  believe that it is your presence that is inhibiting her elimination, not quite sure if that is necessarily the case as you say the dog has let go in the car and in the bedroom (unless of course you were not there at the time).

You also say that the dog was previously house trained, however IME one should never take such statements at face value.  For example was SHE housetrained or did the previous owner have very good timing or was the dog outside much of the time.  Also is the substrate in your garden the same that she eliminated on in her previous home.  EG is your garden gravel and the previous one grass etc?

Another thing to consider is whether or not she has ever been chastised for inappropriate eliminating which could be linked to being anxious in a human's presence.

Personally I would not stand around for 20 mins as if the dog wants to go it wants to go, and TBH, unless you are the dog owner equivalent of Sir Laurence Olivier, :D I have no doubt that despite your best efforts, the dog will be picking up on your tension.  As we know, attitudes are contagious and IME tension does not facilitate urination (in men or women) in fact quite the opposite.

I would try to adopt a very matter of fact outlook re this, in fact I would go further, I would try and forget about this issue altogether; by all means let her out at regular times but pay her no attention at all.

By all means have something that the dog craves as a treat ready in case of success but again, depending on this particular dog's sensitivity be careful with the praise as this alone may give her a bit of a shock! :D  there must be a clear link between cause and effect and I would suggest the delay between your dog eliminating and you reaching her in the garden to praise may be too long, unless you are Linford Christie. :D

I am sure I am telling you to suck eggs anyway as you have far more experience than me with this breed, but that is the route I would probably follow.

Not sure if any of that is of any help at all......

Thanks for the response!  She is used to a paved garden and we have the same.  She is used to taking her self off out to do her business when let out (the breeders worked during the day so this was on a morning, before tea, after tea and on a night) but not whilst out on a walk.  She is not used to being watched as such (the breeders used to watch from their kitchen window as they could see the whole garden, then they would go out as soon as she started to do something, peep round the wall until she'd finished then go overboard with the praise) but I don't watch her like a hawk.  I make myself as inconspicious as possible but praise her every time she looks over to let her know that she is doing the right thing by not sticking by me and 'exploring' the garden.  I am not tense at all and we have a little play etc but she is anxious about the weeing which is the concern.  I do know that the breeders other bitches are very funny about toileting away from home when at a show and have been known to hold on for 3 days!!  When she has 'let go' in the car and my bedroom I have been present and not scolded her because I know she couldn't help it.  I just want to see her do one wee outside, praise her sky high and then I believe she'll progress from there :)  She is a lovely addition to our family in every sense but this is a concern for us as it obviously makes her uncomfortable feeling the need to keep holding on til she bursts bless her.

P.S.  She is fit and healthy so its a behavioural thing really

My guess is that she's too unsure of her new surroundings to wish to draw attention to herself fron possible predators. I would suggest you stop praising her every time she looks at you it's possible she thinks you're praising her for not doing anything, even though she wants to! (Dogs are funny things!) Try ignoring her entirely when she's outside.

"I would suggest you stop praising her every time she looks at you..."

Thats what I did for an hour last night actually.  I sat on a seat in the garden and just let her get on with it.  She just kept going back to the back door and sitting on the step whining to be let in.  I didn't let her in and just sat still without saying anything at all and she'd come back, have a quick sniff around the garden again then go back to the door step.  After and hour at 12:30am in the snow (which was after the first 30 mins spent praising her for sniffing then 60 ignoring her) I gave up and we came inside.  She didn't do a wee last night to our knowledge and as far as we can tell hasn't all day (no smell or stain anywhere in the house and she'd have had to be extremely quick for us not to have noticed her do it outside!) so this is 27 hours after her last wee

This might appear to be a bit off the wall, but have you thought of running a tap.......................

It quite often works with toddlers and adults who have "problems".............

Just a thought

hahaha Actually there's been taps running all day cos Ma's been cleaning the sinks and bathroom and we wash up about 4 times a day too :D Also there's a drain outside the door which makes a gushing sound when someone empties a sink or flushes the loo and thats not helped either.  If only she knew we want her to do a wee outside I'm sure she'd be very relieved to know that its actually okay bless her :)

Are you absolutely certain that she not picked up an infection?  The stress of being rehomed could bring on an infection, particularly if the water you are giving her is different in hardness.

"My guess is that she's too unsure of her new surroundings to wish to draw attention to herself fron possible predators."

That's what we initially thought but then why is she quite happy to poo anywhere in the garden I wonder

I had a bitch just like this, couldn't get her to wee in the rain at all, she would hold it for days and would even limit her water intake to avoid 'going'     I solved it in 2 ways.  1. she had water mixed in with her food (dry complete) so I knew she would have to go sooner or later.  2 I gave up standing in the garden with her for hours (3 hours under a brolly was just too much :( ) and waited till she showed signs of wanting to 'go' - sniffing, pacing etc. (watched her like a hawk) then I'd let her out and watch thru the bathroom window until she 'went' , no way was she coming inside until she'd emptied ;)  I had a clicker handy and clicked when she was finishing ;) ;)  the treat was given as she came in the door :D  

In your situation it may be worth fencing off part of the garden you can see so that you can keep an eye on her from a warm dry place ;)

Hope this helps

Thanks for your response.  I know that this is the first time she's ever seen snow but she's really enjoying catching it in her mouth when it falls and doesn't mind walking on it at all :)  She has a little coat as she was shivvering now that its so cold bless her but she doesn't mind it at all :)  I really don't want to go down the route of shutting her out of the house unacompanied if I can help it.  She has already had her little world turned upside down by coming to live with us to start with and she needs companionship all the time at this very early stage (this is only day 4 of her living with us).  We haven't really got a section of garden that we can fence off unfortunately as it is 'landscaped' and there are shrubs dotted all over the place so anywhere would mean there'd be a chance of her going behind something so we still wouldn't be able to see *sigh*  At this point she still hasn't wee'd so we reckon its been 33 hours now since her last bladder emptying session   Of course there is always a chance that she has totally fooled us and relieved herself somewhere but its definately not in the house and I really can't see that she did it in the garden or else surely we would have noticed   The saga continues...

I forgot to say that she's not a timid dog, she's quite outgoing with strangers and loves to be fussed by everyone and anyone.  She is however not used to the traffic we have outside of our street - and its by no means busy! - because she is from a more 'rural' area.  She is doing well on the lead and has gotten used to wearing a collar all the time :)  She knows her name and has basic training so she's a smart little cookie :)  She loves a cuddle and a tickle and her rawhide chew (she's nearly devoured it bless her!) and seems to love us all as much as we love her :)  She's a very affectionate little thing and loves to be around someone all the time - she will follow anyone who leaves the room to see where they are going :)  Basically she is a wonderful addition to our family and we love her to bits :D  We just want her to know that this is her home and she is 'allowed' to wee in the garden :)

Hi Peewee
Is there a possibility your pup has a urine infection....if she holds on too long I wonder if she may get a little kidney infection...I'm no vet, but I know this can happen with small children. Perhaps worth a visit...
Good luck

Been to the vets already (wednesday morning) and there's not a problem health wise.  Have another appointment on Thur 5th (first I could get with the holdiay's) so Vet will check for a urine infection again.  Regarding her holding on I know its not uncommon for sheltie bitches to go days without weeing but the concern we had was that she's only 7 months old.  At her age her bladder control should be good but this is exceptional!  She doesn't and never has shown any signs of distress when 'squeezed' a little on her tummy or anything nor when actually passing urine so we're pretty certain its just a behavioural thing and that she hasn't realised yet that this is her home - but she will :)

On a plus note she wee'd outside at 11:30 last night :D  Sods law that she did it out of sight from me (she went round the garage) but I saw her coming away from the 'puddle' and praised her like mad for it :)  She's been going to the back door today to be let out and has done a poo but no wee yet.  Will see what she's like later on but I want her to do a wee before any fireworks go off tonight cos it is New Years Eve!

She's a perfectly happy little girl bless her and is just yapping away at the cat trying to get him to 'play' - but of course he's having none of it haha  Now she's come in the room for a tickle and to play 'lick licks' :)

P.S.  She drinks plenty of water :)

New Years Eve come early this year has it?

:p haha  I'm all to pot with me days :)

I think it is a thing that most bitches can do. I took a x breed i had away from home on a Thursday morning & she fina;lly when for a pee on the Monday ! She had eaten & drunk & behaved as normal & when she peed she peed for England !

If she has a indoor mistake just clean it up without comment. Don't worry about getting her perfect before the weekend Better her be happy inbdoors & haven odd puddle that have to go outside & get frigthened

I would treat her like a baby puppy & take her out every couple of hours & when she does go continue the mega praise. LOL I think my neighbours if they could hear me would realise I am barking with my requests for my puppy to be quick quick(his command for a pee) & the OTT praise when he went however 4 months on he now goes on command even if it's only a few token drops

"If she has a indoor mistake just clean it up without comment. Don't worry about getting her perfect before the weekend Better her be happy inbdoors & haven odd puddle that have to go outside & get frigthened"

Thanks for your response!  I'm glad that she isn't the only 'awkward' girly in the world ;)

We don't do anything other than clean up if she has an 'accident' anyway as we know its not her fault :)  If she doesn't want to go out tomorrow night (being New Years Eve - not tonight as I thought for whatever reason haha) then we won't 'force' her - we never took our previous dogs out when there was thunder or fireworks as it terrified them enough when they were inside bless them!  If she shows signs of being scared then she'll stay inside :)  We take her out every 2 hours and stay outside for about 15-20 mins.  At the moment we are only taking her for a walk once a day as she is still getting used to the cars (tho occasional) etc but we have a good sized garden and she loves pottering around in that :)

I do think it's a "girlie"thing as my boys are forever nippinmg out for a quick pee My GSD bitch only going out when she has too especially in the snow !

Just realised I put the date as Thur 5th but the vets appointment was booked for Wed 4th - ooops!  We went again this evening to specifically ask about UTI (appointment on morning of Wed 28th was her first health check but all was well healthwise then - we just went to be on the safe side).  Vet examined her and again has no concerns about her at all :)  She said that if she did have an infection she would most likely be weeing loads!  The advice we were given was that we've got to be aware that if she keeps on holding for long periods that she could develop one.  But she's a fit and healthy (not to mention gorgeous) little girl :)

Panic over :)  She's weeing generally once or twice a day and has even wee'd and poo'd when out on a walk today :)  She isn't even overly bothered by the fireworks - granted there's only been a few going off as it isn't 1 minute to 12 yet ;)  Thanks for all the advice :)

That's a relief. If you'll pardon the pun! I suspect she's feeling more settled with you and this has made her more relaxed about the whole business.

haha Yes bless her :)

Glad to hear that - my bitch puppy was like that when younger, not to the point of 33 hours between wees thank goodness, but easily 12 or 14 hours! When she did eventually go outside, particularly if in a strange place and not just the garden, I made a huge fuss of her, and now at 12 months old she's quite happy to wee in a strange place if given the command to go. Mind you, she now tries to wee about 10 times in the park just to hear me praise her!! :-D