9 years ago i sold a puppy to a couple, this dog had a very healthy life until a year ago when it was found out he had hip dysplasia i have all my bitches tested for this .
I have any bitch i have bred hip scored and before i go to a stud i ask to see his hip scores and only use the males with perfect scores (along with other good test results) despite this this dog still had hip dysplasia.

anyway in my puppy contracts i have in there that if a dog is to become ill or has a congenital problem i will refund the total amount and take possession of the dog or i will provide a new puppy if one is available or i will pay the vet expenses. Well 2 months ago i was contacted by the owners who at the time had been in contact with me about every 6 months. I offered what the contract stated and they said no that they wanted to put him to sleep well i didnt approve of that because he was only in discomfort in winter and only if he was lying on a cold surface so this could have been treated. I ask them not to and to return him to me and i would give them a refund after 9 years wich i think is a pretty good deal most breeders wouldnt. Anyway i got a call from them today telling me they had put him to sleep and now they wanted a new puppy for free well i have a couple of problems with this. First all my current puppies are spoken for and have been since before they were born (i dont breed unless i have great families for the pups to go to). Second i ask for them not to put to sleep and he didnt need to be and i dont want to give them a new puppy or a refund because i could have taken him back and had him treated myself i have more then enough room here for him and had no problem doing this i also told them i would pay the vet expense.

i feel they put him to sleep not out of a lack of money but out of a lack of interest in him he was not that bad i had been to see him i had spoken to the vet and the vet gave him a good outcome with treatment to ease any pain.

what can i do now the contract does state that i will refund or replace the pup i would begrudge giving them their money back after they destroyed a dog who had many years left in him and i dont want to give them a pup although they had met the requirements i have to take one of my pups years ago . I dont trust these people and dont want another of my dogs going to them.

the contract is very straight foward (desexings, vac, vet checks, responsible care ect) but isnt legally binding because it was not witnessed by a JP but i did expect them to uphold the terms in my contract (desexing, yearly vacs ect) so if i expect them to uphold the terms i kinda feel like i have to.

Dont have time for a long reply,will post more later. But to be blunt,i would tell them to stick it where the sun dont shine!
They have had a good 9 years out of your dog... The crunch for me would have been when they needlesly got him destroyed :(

Hi Slee,  I am not a breeder so I don't have anything to do with dog contracts.  However, it seems to me that this couple broke the terms of contract when they refused to give the dog back to you, even though you still specifically requested it after 9 years, thus honouring the contract.  I am sure there will be experienced breeders on here soon but as far as I am aware from previous threads on HD, that although it is hereditary this isn't the only means of a dog contracting HD.  Perhaps until you hear a more experienced reply you could do a search but I am sure I have seen that HD can develop through too much exercise as puppies or injuries.  Now that they have destroyed the evidence and broken the terms of contract I can see no reason why you should give them another one of your precious puppies. Tell them straight

the hd may have been of over excersice as a young dog

this is what i put in my warranty
the above puppy is believed to be in good health,but we strongly advise you to take it to your vets to be givena general health check with in 3 days of purchase,this health check and any other test or examinations  associated with it mustbe at your own expense,if your vet finds any problems,which in their opinion renders the puppy unfit for sale we will take back the puppy  and refund the purchase price in full within 7 days, of the sale we accept that this will be the only time that a full refund will be given,on condition that the puppy is return immediately and is in the same state of health as it was sold,if we the breeders are unhappy about the condition of the puppy on its return,we will have it examined by our vet at our own expense before any monies  are returned,
we the undersign have been informed by the breeder regarding any genetic or partly genetic diseases that this breed may be affected by ie hip/dysplasia,inherited eye disease goniodysgenesis,
we are aware that there is NO guarantee that the puppy will be free from genetic disease though environment or othewise  to which it may be prone.we accept that if such diseases develop later in life after a satisfactory examination by a vet  as stated above the breeder will not be held responsible.

2 it is condition of this sale and purchase that the puppy was sold as a pet and no warranty can be given as o the ultimate show potentail or working potential or breeding  of the dog /bitch on reachinng maturity

this is what we put  in our warranty,

one out there may have a better one

i pay for the vet check within the first 3 days because it only cost 30 dollars and it does protect me and nuthing showed up when he did have his first vet check because i ask everybody who buys a pup from me to give me a letter from the vet letting me know everything is ok. Im aware that this may have been because of over excercise and seeings as it had not shown up until a year ago but i cant proove it.

he was hit by a car when he was 5 they where out walking him and he pulled on the lead and she was not holding it properly and the dog ran across the road but the dog only had lower leg injuries mainly cuts and bruising the car stopped up close and still hit but not hard.

i wanna tell them to go to hell because they had other options other then putting him to sleep and i know the vet who had been his vet his whole life had refused to put him to sleep and so they went to another vet. i spoke to the vet today to check if it was that bad that he needed to be put to sleep and he told me he refused to do it because the dog would have lived his life out and probably would never have had to be put to sleep because of it.

Slee I can see how you are agonising over this but really if a contract is broken (they broke it) this makes the contract null and void. A contract is only a contract if agreed by two or more parties.  They agreed to abide by the contract when they bought the puppy but broke it 9 years on. I can't see how they have a leg to stand on frankly.

i got a bitch here that i breed from a dam and a sire with low hip score dam 8 and sire from sweden A,but she was wrapped up in cottom wool beacuse of all the hard work i put in bring the dog over staying showing him for 6 months plus the dam of the bitch other siblings had low scoring.
so blue was never free run or over excerise but had her hip done in may score of 54 avage for this breed 9

so where did that come from ????? there was no other pups in the litter she was the only one

he came from a litter of 6. As soon as i was told about this a year ago i ask everyone who had one from that litter and asked if they had any problems and if it hadnt been brought up yet could they have them checked. Everyone had their dog checked and they all had perfect scores so it probably was something they did but i still have no hard proof to show them and until i do i am hitting my head up against the wall trying to explain to them it could have been their fault and that they didnt have to put him to sleep.

im upset because i spend alot of time choosing my new owners for any pups i have waiting lists for pups and someone else could have given this dog a longer life but i chose these people so i kinda feel guilty about that and im just also upset about the fact that the dogs gone.
There is no way in hell i will give them a new pup
but i needed to know if i should have to give them a refund after 9 years and the fact that i gave them 3 options and they chose to put to sleep and that wasnt even an option i gave them. The thing is they could have returned that dog to me and it would have cost them nuthing and i would have then definetly given them a refund but instead they chose something that cost them money it doesnt make sense why they would do it. I wanna talk to the vet some more because he was hinting at some other reasons that he suspected they wanted the dog PTS. He said the dog had only had 2 bad cases with the HD and it was because they left him out in the cold all night everything else were small little pings of pain here and there mostly due to jumping up.

you say you have no proof what about the xrays from his vets,at the different stages in his life

they have them i dont because they took him to a new vet all of that stuff would have been sent over to the new vet. They had signed a consent form allowing me to access his medical records because i offered to pay when they first told me but i never recieved a bill so i can access his records with that vet but not with the one who put him to sleep and i doubt they will authorize it now

the vet does have his own personal notes though and in his notes everything appeared normal. It wasnt until a year ago that the dog started limping and they had him checked (that was the first episode that was bad because they left him in the cold) he hadnt seen him for about a year before that and that was just for a quick check up and a vac booster

Hi slee

I am struggling to understand how anyone could do such a monstrous thing.  It begs the question, did they just want a new pup out of you rather than to nurse the older dog.  It really stinks.

I have written quite a few legal letters and the usual stance is this.  If you put your offer in writing, which you did with your original contract, and can prove that you offered to take the dog back and refund the purchase price or replace it with another pup (did you put this in writing also when they approached you for the last time?) then they broke the contract by destroying the dog - which was the commodity in this transaction.  As there is no longer a commodity the contract has been broken, by them.

In this instance I would not under any circumstances offer them another puppy, what kind of life would it have with people who are willing to do such a thing.

My heartfelt sympathy to you in this awful dilemma.

It's nine years down the line they haven't a leg to stand on.

Anything can happen in life and there are no guarantees.  All that any of us can do is ensure that we do our best for our dogs. 

It's 9 years old!  Some breeds would have died by now, so I really don't think that they can complain.

a red cattles life span is around 16 years and as the vet said he would have lived his life out and would not have needed to be PTS because of the HD because it really wasnt that bad so they cut the dogs life short by 7 years.

well they dont have a leg to stand on really but i do like to help my owners out i find it insures the best possible relationship with the owner and if something does go wrong they will have no prob calling me up saying there is something wrong and want to know if i can help whether it be because of health training or even just babysitting but that ofcourse has come flying back in my face now. i have written them an email explaining why i wont give them a new dog and told them that i will wait for a copy of the original vets paperwork before i consider a refund and then i would like to see the vet who put the dog to sleep reports before i make a decision. I really dont see it being in the genes because his mother had perfect scores so did his father and i know that her mother had perfect scores because i originally bred from her and she came from that litter and all pups from his mother litter were fine.

you can alawys try to contact the vet

Vets will not tell you anything, not even if it's a hereditary life threatening problem that the breeder should be advised about

not unless i have written consent from the owners

they can go throw your vet to get the detail from the other vets,

I wouldn't even give them a refund, not after 8 years. It was a contract not an insurance policy.  Why do you feel obligated to give them anything when they have destroyed a dog that you were willing to take back and care for which was part of the contract they agreed to? 

There is nothing to tie you to these people now IMO

Im sorry but it seems you did everything possible to help them, its not as if it had these problems from a young age. If they were that unhappy with your dog why would they want another from you, I know that hell would freeze over before I would get another puppy from Abbys breeder, she is two and I have already spent £6000 on vet bills we cant get insurance for her as she has so many problems but she is my dog and while she can have a decent quaility of life she wont be pts. Some people make me so angry what would happen if they had a child that developed a serious illness.
Good Luck and remember you did everything you could have, so dont give them any money.
Mary

i dont feel obligated really im kinda upset about him being PTS and also stressed at how they are carrying on and kinda guilty cause i let him go there even though it was a good home for him for nine years. im just very confused at what tk do but your post have made me feel confident enough to tell them to pretty much go jump

They have broken the contract ..end of story. They have NO claims against you at all .

Tell them to go away in short jerky movements ;)

lol @ Melodysk "short jerky movements"

What a dreadful situation to be in, and they have had 9 very happy years with their dog and now want a free replacement. Firstly in your first post you say there are 3 options in the contratc, return the dogs and get a refund, or get a new pup. Whether they have a case or not depends on exactly how the contract is worded - you may want to think about re-phrasing it for future puppy sales.
From what you say they contract also says a new puppy when available - this could be a good let out, one just won't become available.Tell them you habe no pups available and are not likely to have any for a considerable time.
If you don't want them to have a pup from you dont let them have one, it will then be down to them to sue you or not - hopefully they will not take it that far.
best of luck

I certainly wouldnt entertain giving a puppy to someone who has show they are not willing to work with you in resolving an issue! however i would take this opertunity to review the contents of your contract you need to put a lower age limit on these things, that still gives you the opertunity to replace a pup/adult dog if you think the need arises but without creating issues by obliging yourself to do so

Hi slee,
As many of the others have mentioned it is to reiterate that you are under no obligation whatsoever. I actually asked my sis-in-law who used to teach Law in Bond University, and she says in the first instance most of the contracts made by breeders are usually no legally binding due to certain technicalities in the contract construction ( don't know some of the jargon she's spouting!). Even if it was the goods in question(refers to the dog) no longer exist and thus whatever they have is null and void from their perspective. In fact on the contrary you have grounds to sue them as they did not show good faith prinicipal and instead of returning the dog to you destroyed it without just cause.
Hopefully that helps.
Anyway in plain English you do not owe them anything at all and do not even have to speak to them. We all make mistakes and there is no point beating yourself about it, put it down to wrong choice (believe me we all do make them).
Yash

Slee I would reword my contract.  the tendency to HD is certainly inherited to a certain extyent, I ahve heard heritablility to be around 30 - 40%. 

You bred from hip scored parents?

Out of interest was this dog scored, or was the HD diagnosis of a middle aged dog made by the GP vet, lets face it dogs will get arthritis as they age, especially if they had injuries (the RTA).

You said that some of the littermates were checked, what wer3e their scores (I know you use the same HD scorign schene as we do in UK).

They had 9 years from the dog, good grief my marriage didn't last that long :D

Good Grief even whie Goods with Insurance only get 5 years coverage,a dn are fit for scrap after that.

mother had 0/0 scores father had 0/2 he had an injury to his hip otherwise he would have had perfect scores like my old bitch (he was originally scored when he was 1 with a 0/0 and then after the injury his hips had to be x rayed regularly to check the progress of recovery and they found his hip at 2) and so did all other pups had 0/0 to and no significant injuries through out the last 9 years.

he was diagnosed a year ago after they found him limping on his right leg.

i have decided not to refund even if it was genetical because i took all precausions to insure pups came out with good hips i really dont think i could have done much more and they went against my wishes and im wuite angry about that.

brainless did you ask for a refund on your ex hubby

Now that is an idea, as he has never paid a penny for the children since the older was 3 and since the younger ones birth almost 15 years ago. :D

Hi Slee, I have read all the threads and feel that if you offered them chance to take him back and offer a new puppy or refund so why did they not do this? Its not as iof they were loosing out.

I feel that, they have broken their side of the agreement by not doing what you asked.  Personally, I would take some legal advice before I took the decision to go any further.  After all what the law sees in your contract may not be the same as we do. 

I have taken on board some the replies here and change my contract accordingly. 

Its a shame that people like this exist but we never can tell can we.