Hello Group and Merry Christmas.
        I am after some advice on stud selection for my medium yellow Lab bitch. She is yellow out of a dark yellow( dare I say fox red?) sire and a medium yellow dam. I want to use a Dark yellow stud as I would like to increase my chances of producing a dark litter. I know a good dog can never be the wrong colour but I want dark yellows in my kennels.
       I would also like to hot up the pedigree with more FTCH's.My bitch has FTCH's in pedigree but that is 3generations back and has since only been keeper bred dogs since. I am interested in a few. Firstly there is Dargaffin Gizmo of Threevalleys or 'Charlie'  who looks fantastic and has a good line. He is out of FTCH Craighorn Bracken, who I would love to use but the 7 hour car journey each way is off putting if the mating fails! FTCH Tasco Rouble of Bedgebrook is another one I'm looking at. What I would like to know is if anyone has experience of these dogs? Are they throwing good pups? Are their litter mates any good, I ask this as I have been told that FTCH Tasco Rouble is a good dog but he was the only good one in the litter? I know no different to this and this is why I ask. Should FTCH Craighorn be my choice and if I want the best stock then I should travel that far? Are there any others out of top lines, red coats and winning trials? Are there any lines, kennels, that carry dark yellow/red and which are closer to me? I live in Gloucestershire.
         Many thanks for reading my post and thank you in advance for anyone replying to my many questions! :)
         Kindest regards
        

Personally, I would be looking at hip & eye scores before looking for colouring..... beauty is only skin deep, but health goes far deeper!

We've done the 7 hour round trip before for the right stud - and its always a gamble - whther you use the dog next door or one 7 counties away.

I take it you have hip & eye-scored?????

Regards

Margot

I agree totally with Margot. In my breed, there has been a lot of breeding for colour over the last years, not always with the best results.
My suggestion would be, to get in contact with your breeder, to find out all you can about your bitch and her lines. He or she should be able to point you in the right direction when it comes to choosing a stud for your girl. When you choose, look into health and mentality, after that results at trials and shows.Then, if the dog you finally settle for is a dark golden colour, see it as an added bonus.
I have travelled much further than 7 hours for the right stud, and will happily do it again in a few months  time. There is no way I would settle for second best, because of the distance.
Good luck with your breeding plans, and dont forget, a good dog consists of so much more than a stunning colour!

Hi RRfriend,
         I agree and have replied to Margot's post. I would not class FTCH tasco Rouble as a second best dog, I just wondered what other peoples opinions were and if anyone has any knowledge of these dogs. In your breed I thought colour was less important and more emphisis was on the hair position of the crowns. Don't they have to be level to make the grade for showing, as well as the rest of the attributes needed of course. I have owned a Ridgeback which was no good for showing as her crowns were 6 inches lower than each other, although she made a great working dog. Her nose was fantastic as was her stamina, (which these should be for a hound), and she would retrieve birds with a soft mouth.
        As I mentioned in first post, a good dog can never be a bad colour, (in the shooting/working field anyway), but the working field is dominated by the black gene and I like my dogs to stand out from the crowd. Red also blends better than black/yellow on the reedy marsh/river banks whilst wildfowling or whilst sat in a pigeon hide so is a working bonus too. All the stud dogs mentioned have been tested in the field, two are Champions and one a full time worker so mental and physical attributes have been and are still tested.
        Many thanks for your reply, all  the best for 2006
        Regards
        Rich.

Hi Margot,
          Her eyes are clear and hips are 3:4 so well within the limits. All stud dogs mentioned have clear eyes and low single digit hip scores so that is already thought of, sorry for not mentioning this in my post. I agree that health is first and foremost but as with most working lines,(as appossed to show bred lines), hips are a less common problem, though not completely eradicated! My dogs are of a high health and fitness standard.
         Thank you, I will be thinking hard about the 14 hour round trip! :)
         Regards
         Rich.

Hi Creccamarsh

Sorry if I sounded a trifle "snarky" about hips & eyes = but once you've posted on here a few times (welcome to the addictive world of CD btw ;) ) - you will be surprised at just how many people dismiss the whole idea of hip testing particularly

As you say, especially for a working dog, it is essential.

Good luck - and do let us know what you decide.

Margot

Hi Margot,
        You didn't come across as "snarky" and I hope my reply never did too. Thank you for the welcome note too. I understand message boards as I have been involved in Martial Arts for quite a few years now and have given up the on-line forums due to time wasters, people who just want to fight and argue and people with an ego bigger than their mind! :) I will let you know what I decide. All the best in 2006.
       Kindest regards
       Rich.

<<an ego bigger than their mind:D :D :D

Now THAT could certainly apply to one particular person who keeps popping up here & being banned ........ ;)

We all know who I mean, don't we :D

(And no, not you Creccamarsh ;) )

Hmmm, you inventing words now LOKIS MUM????LOL

Not me then is it that keeps popping up with a super inflated ego??? LOL

Which word's been invented there, newfiedreams?

SNARKY!!! LOL New one on me???!!!

Local dialects can often seem strange to others! ;) :D

:D :D  To be Snarky - sarcastic in a very nasty way :D :D :D

No, no, no, newfiedreams - certainly not you - its our multi-headed hydra that keeps popping up ;)

Margot

lol we just say sarky!!!!!

It's a bit more than sarcastic, more malicious .  A very useful word really, even the sound of it evokes a snarl :D
snarky

lol might try it!!!!

:D Just don't try to be it :p

moi??????

Also Snarky.

Hi

I don't know if i am the right person to help you answer your questions (as i own Dargdaffin Gismo of Threevalleys) all Three of the stud dogs you mention have been health screened

Dargdaffin Gismo of Threevalleys Hips 0/0 elbows 0/0 current clear eye certificate
FTCH Bedgebrook Rouble of Threevalleys hips 4/4 current clear eye certificate
FTCH Craighorn Bracken 4/3 clear eyes 2001

All three dogs are good strong working dogs (all red in colour)  they all carry fox red but that does not mean you will get fox red puppies,  as you say yourself colour is not important, but, with such good, HEALTHY working stud dogs available a choice that can be considered.

I myself have a bitch by Rouble (currently in training , with bags of potential) and obviously a dog by Bracken (who i could not be without ). Both of my dogs are out of good working bitches - as a stud dog is only half the pedigree.

I hope this helps
Good luck with your chosen dog.

Have you had your dogs DNA tested yet ? My friendly gamekeeper has just had his labs done(they are of course clinicially clear) & is awaiting the results My BC pup is having his bloods taken on the 13th Jan for CEA & CL

Hi We have decided to get ALL ours done in the new year!!

Hi Dyane, I'm interested in what you say about the DNA testing. I honestly didn't know that there was a DNA test for eyes, in the Labrador. Of course I don't follow the breed all that closely, but I do look out for Lab things generally, and I must have missed that.

Dawn R.

Hi Moonmaiden,
        No she has not been DNA tested and please excuse my ignorence but what will that tell me?
        Regards
        Rich

You can DNA test for PRA in Labs.

HTH :)

Hi Threevalleys,
         I feel guilty now, asking a question about dogs and one of them yours!:rolleyes: Charlie is a very handsome dog and is out of Craighorn Braken so he is a favourite of mine. Your bitch out of Rouble looks just like my red bitch, she is coming on well at the moment and is a small type and charlie is my favoured stud for her as he is a bigger dog. Hopefully he will put some size back into her litter, if she proves worthy and this is still a way off yet although progressiing well.  With the stud only being half the pedigree then I need as good as I can get. I am breeding for myself and hope to keep a couple back. I know I can't guarantee red pups but I hope to increase my chances by using a red dog as my bitch's sire is red. I know black can dominate so don't want a black stud. Hard for you to answer as your bitch from Rouble is still in training but, would you say Rouble or Braken has given you the best WORKING DOG? It may be impossible to answer as the bitch has to be taken into account as well as the stud! The only advantage of using Bracken over Charlie is I get a FTCH sire as opposed to Grandsire (more red on pedigree), does that outway the travel expense, extra stud fee, sale-ability of the remaining litter,(although I have people waiting), all this still won't guarantee me a better pup, lap of the gods! I just like to think things through alot and not rush into decisions. Thank you for your reply and your honesty, which is reassuring to see.
        Kidest regards
        Rich.

Hi Rich, please excuse my answering when you asked Moonmaiden, but, if there is a DNA test for any of the eye diseases in Labradors, it would tell you whether or not an individual dog/bitch was genetically capable or incapable of passing on the disease to it's offspring. A dog does not need to suffer from a disease to be a carrier of it.

Dawn R/.

Hi Dawn,
        thank you for that, always something to learn

http://www.optigen.com/opt9_test.html

Have a look on the Optigen site they have two DNA tests for Labrador Retrievers I didn't know until I started looking at the site for my puppy

If you check for 20/20 clinics here in the UK you can time the blood sampling & send them to the organiser & save not only on FedEx costs but also get a reduction on the cost of the test in addition to the online booking saving

That is a really interesting site MM - think I'm going to check out the DNA tests for our Aussies as well as our lab!

You get so much info here on Champdogs - because everyone is prepared to share!

Margot

LOL There is a 20/20 clinic in the UK in mid Jan. My pup's having the blood taken on the 13th January The clinic is being held by the Southern Border Collie Club I think

Where, where, where ???? :D :D :D

LOL

My puppy is going to my vets to have the blood drawn & then it's sent to Val Tiller who is organising the clinic & I think the clinic details are on the Optigen site

It will be in the south of the UK too far for me to go to in person with Rjj & TBH I would rather my vet took the sample as they were lovely with him when he had the Rabies Titre test blood taken

If you are interested I've PM'd you a copy of Val's E mail to me

January 16, 2006 through January 20, 2006 - Southern Border Collie Club 20/20 Clinic with Satellite Participation

Blood draw for CEA and/or CL OptiGen tests on Tuesday, 17th January, from 2pm, at "Foxbarton" for Border Collies, Rough Collies, Smooth Collies, Bearded Collies, Shetland Sheepdogs, Australian Shepherd Dogs, and Lancashire Heelers. Participants attending the blood draw at Foxbarton must pre-register with Val Tiller. (See below). Any breed may take part as a satellite participant. These participants may have the blood drawn anywhere and may request any test; however, the sample must arrive at OptiGen between January 16 and January 20. Please obtain the discount code from the clinic contact.

Breed: All Breeds (see above)
Location: "Foxbarton", 15 Beaconsfiled Road, Langley Vale, Epsom, Surrey, England  KT18 6HA
Contact: Val Tiller
Email: val.tiller@talk21.com
Phone: (01372) 273597

(information taken from the Optigen site)

Margot I do know Val had spaces in the 20/20 clinic as she had posted elsewhere just before Christmas, but that was because the 16 Aussies that were booked in had decided to waitdue to the marker gene for hereditary cataracts having just been discovered and they will be testing for both at the same time once the test becomes available you may want to look into that as well. :)                                

After today's episode - 1 lab -v- 1 lab & 1 aussie - I have no spare money for testing - this little contest has cost me nearly £400 !

I want to test for the aggro gene

Thanks for that link MM, does anyone know if the uptake is very good among the UK breeders?

In one of my breeds, the Irish Setter, a serious disease has been totally removed from the gene pool in the space of 8 years. The Irish Setter breeders of this country have alot to be proud of.

Dawn R.

Don't know about other breeds but the BC breeders I know are all having them done, it means a CEA affected dog or a carrier can still be used in breeding if they are good enough(workwise for me)with a genetically clear mate & not be worried about producing sufferers. In the past CEA producers have been removed from the gene pool by the ISDS

I'll be doing the online bit on the 2nd Jan. The bloods can be sent via Val to save Fedex charges(about £50 as opposed to £3 via Val)

Yes as MM says the uptake among BC breeders is good for both CEA and CL ( I'm happy to say my girls are all tested  normal or normal by parentage for both :D )

Hi Rich
I have sent you an e-mail
Hope it helps!