today i was walking with micky and was told he was not a alsation he was a german shepard because he doesnt have a flat back the person i had them off said they were alsations but whats the difference i though german shepards were a different breed i thought it was german shepards the police used and then the pet ones were alsations.

Hi Hazel

German Shepherds are the ones with long coats, Alsations have short coats. If yours are alsations they must have short coats, ok. :)

thank you both of mine have shourt coats so they are alsations

Erm, think you're a little confused there!   Check out the KC website, you may be surprised!  Coat length or colour have nothing to do with it either ;)

Regards, Teri

Hi again,

They are not a separate breed :)  The correct name, regardless of working, showing, pet etc is German Shepherd Dog, Alsation.

regards, Teri

whats the kc website and how to i get to it

Breed Standard

The official breed name is 'German Shepherd Dog (Alsatian)'. They are one and the same.
:)

Wow you learn something new every day. Do my rotties have any other name?

No, just Rottweiler.

Here is the link to the KC website. http://www.the-kennel-club.org.uk

Click breed standards, and find your breed under working. This is what anyone breeding pedigree dogs should be basing their breeding criteria on, and of course health.

Erm Brainless GSDs are pastoral not working. :)

Barbara was referring to the Rotts ;)

correct.

how did german shepard dog alsations get two names then how come they wernt just given a name and it was kept like labradors are labradors.

The original name was 'German Shepherd' - this was changed due to anti-German feeling during World War 1. The nearest region in France (our ally) to where the breed originated was Alsace, so the dogs were then known as 'Alsatians'. The name was changed back to the original name in the mid-20th century.

Thanks Jean, I know how to say their breed name, but I cant spell it so thats why I call them rotties. :) Very helpful link.

i just googled it and it said that they had wolf in them and were called alsation wolfs and then becaause people dont like wolfs they changed the name there seems to be so many reasons its confusing. so do my dogs have wolf in them.

NO

The correct name for them is the Deutsche Schaferhund which translates into German Shepherd Dog

After WWI some very poor dogs were captured from the german Army & brought back by troops to the UK.from Alscae Lorraine  & later better dogs were bought by Army officers  The Anti German feelings were so bad(people stoned Dachshunds in the streets )So it was decided to call them Alsatian Wolf dog because the first dogs were captured in Alscae Lorraine & had erect ears like a wolf. The Wolf Dog was dropped as people were frightened by the through of "wolf hybrids"

The incorrect name continued to be used as the main name by the UK Kennel Club(They actually called them Alsatian(GSD):rolleyes:)until Raymond Oppenheimer(A Bull Terrier expert & KC member)proposed a change to the correct name of German Shepherd Dog at the KC AGM in 1977

There are those who state that Wolves were used in the early 20th Century to produce GSDs in Germany after the first dog Horand was registered but I have yet to see evidence

<a class='url' href='http://www.inkabijou.co.uk/historyrot.htm'>http://www.inkabijou.co.uk/historyrot.htm</a>

then how come they wernt just given a name and it was kept like labradors are labradors.

HazeyDogs the full correct breed name for Labrador is Labrador Retriever. :)

i thought they were golden labradors and golden retreivers i think i need a dog breed book what books do you all read so that you know so much about all these dogs?

Go to the Kennel Club website and look at the breed standards. 

You won't go far wrong with buying the Illustrated Breed standards which has the standards of all the breeds accepted in the UK, as well as something about each breed.

There are lots of retriever breeds: Labrador Retriever (comes in 3 colours), Golden Retriever, Flat Coated Retriever , Curly Coated Retriever, Chesapeake Bay Retriever and Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever. A good place to start is the KC's website as mentioned before, you'll see all the breed standards and photos of the UK recognised breeds there. :)

thank you moon maiden that really helped so mine are definately german shepard dogs its going to take me a while to get used to calling them that.

i thought the alsation was a different breed from the german shepherd i though the german shepherd was bigger. what are the white ones then are they german shepherds or alsations?

Well Teri said it has nothing to do with coat length or colour so I spose they are German Shepherds too JollyJem.

i like the white ones best they look like polar bears

they are not to breed standard though

they are nice though

As already said, there are two common names for the same breed. German Shepherd Dog (Alsatian) It's still the same breed whatever the colour. :)

Dawn R.

They're all the same - German Shepherd Dogs (known as GSDs for short). Some colours are non-standard but that doesn't change the breed. :)

No, there's no such thing as a 'golden labrador'. ;)

There are 6 retriever breeds:
Labrador Retriever (3 colours; black, yellow (not 'golden'!) and chocolate/liver)
Golden Retriever (any shade from pale cream to dark gold)
Chesapeake Bay Retriever
Curly Coated Retriever
Flat Coated Retriever
Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever

dont forget the others colours!
i have seen brown flatcoats and brown curlies as well as blacks

Oh yes, flat coateds and curly coateds come in liver as well as black; Chesapeake Bays in any shade from dark brown through faded tan to dull straw: and of course 'yellow' in labradors is any shade from pale cream through to fox red.

Hi HayzeyDogs,

Alsatians, GSD's, are in effect the same breed. 

However, you will find subtle differences in the look of the GSD between English (Alsatian) and German bloodlined dogs.    This may be why this person commented on your dog's back and categorized him as a GSD because of his looks rather than what looked like the old Alsatian. 

If you do a search for Alsatian, there have been quite a few informative threads on it.

The correct term today is the German Shepherd Dog (Alsatian) in the UK regardless of lineage.    However, some breeders breed from both English and German lines, others breed German only and some may breed English only.  There are some that add a minority of German blood but keep the look of the dog to resemble the look of what was known as the Alsatian. Your breeder may still see her dogs as Alsatians because of the bloodlines used.

Very interesting thread, I thought that because of the whole war thing the breeding line kind of  separated and you got the English straight back, and then the German sorta' slope back, and more recently the US extreme slope back. Am I misinformed here,   or what??
DD.

Yes, you're right, the breeding did separate, thus differences in the look of the dog that is still around today. 

They're all different 'types' of the same breed.

The split happened slowly because there are people who still breed to the "type"of the middle 1950's when long backs & short legs & over angulated hindquarters were the fashion,

As good German imports became available the"English"fans stayed well clear. I've never owned an "English"type my first GSD was from Gwen Barrington from two of her German Imports back in the late 1950's. My father had a multiple G daughter of Ch Avon Prince of Alumvale one of the most popular of the "English"type back in the 1950's. Her temperament sadly was very typical of the breed at that time:rolleyes:(The KC added the "noted suspicion(sp)of strangers"to cover the excessively nervous dogs in the ring including him) & she was extremely nervous & a fear biter. My father's bitch was PTS after attacking & badly biting my brother for no reason at all. My bitch on the other hand was very friendly & outgoing, she was also very easy to obedience train, my father bitch was never trainable

The ratio of height to length have not changed but if you measure the dogs in photograpghs it is very obvious that few if any"English"types are anywhere near the required proportions of 10 to 9 or 8 and a half length to height & depth of chest of just under half (45-48 per cent) of height at shoulder. Some of the poorer "International"type are IMHO too shallow in chest(the working bred dogs I've seen all seem well within both requirements BTW)

The heads are different too I much prefer the strong heads with good muzzles of the "International"type & my ideal dog would be a good sized working bred dog of the International type as they have the working drive with correct temperament. Both sides of the show type have their problems with character & temperament. The "International" working bred dogs have IMHO the true character of the GSD calm, friendly(Alfred Hahn told me a GSD cannot be too friendly)& yet able to protect when required(along with shepherding ability)

The American type GSDs  are extremely overangulated fore & rear & their movement is terrible. In the US BTW the "International"type attracts huge entries at their Sieger style shows The American type attracts much smaller entries usually under 40 at a show(well the ones I have seen did)

hi moonmaiden, 

we have a gsd that we show at open shows. she looks so different from the majority of dogs there. i would be tempted to say she is more german type but i am not sure.  people have said she would do better at champ shows than open shows.

she is much larger than  the other dogs there and has much longer legs. there is a pic of her here  http://img.photobox.co.uk/85048912fe4bb9614e2fcd5187759db354882ec347ef6363dd743d9c.jpg 

i think, if that works!!!!  each to their own and everyone likes different dogs but the shorter legged gsds just dont look balanced to me at all.

I'll be interested in what Moonmaiden thinks of her, as I certainly think her length of leg is good, though to my eyes she seems a bit long caste, but I am used to looking at dogs that are supposed to be square, LOL :D  A dog with less leg would certainly not be what I understand from reading the breed standard, though very common in the ones around the streets here.

What is her height (you say she is much bigger than the others at your local shows) and age.  Desired height for a bitch is ideally 23 inches at the wither with an inch of leeway either side of that.

thanks brainless, she is not without her faults but i like her overall shape compared with the shorter leg length type. i think from her pedigree she has a bit of german breeding there but i admit that i dont know much about shepherd pedigrees! oops!

eh.....on the height thing, she is a bit big for a girl as she is 25 inches.

sorry brainless, forgot her age.  she will be 4 next march. that pic was taken when she was 2. she is not the most photogenic girl and its really hard to get good pics of her. she always looks much nicer in the flesh.

hi caileag. she looks to me as a german type. there are shows for german types & also shows for english types!

Be interested in her breeding as she seems quite a moderate/middle of the road  type in my eyes.

Hi Lisa

Your bitch is most definitely an International type & most all breed open shows have judges who prefer the "English"type

She looks like she has Rosehurst Chris's breeding behind her

Edited to add she's an inch over the breed standard if she's 25 inches at the withers so might look big even against a correct topsized bitch, however she looks nicely constructed & not too long as she looks as if she is of the right proportions

It's worth going to a few breed club open shows if you can & have a look at the club's website's beforehand

The last time I judged GSDs I also judged Beardies & BC's & had a really big GSD entry from both sides as the International side know me & the English side thought I would prefer their dgs because I was judging the other breeds. Oh dear their poor dogs just couldn't cope with the gaiting & I had to excuse a good few because they were too nervous to handle without being strangled with the cheesewire chokers !

If you have a look at my dogs' website via my profile you will see two of my GSDs. I keep saying I must get all of my dogs photiographs scanned on to the PC

I wonder what entry I would get if I was to judge Cavaliers along side the GSDs ;)

Yes I thought her proportions were probably right, but it does take a bit more to judge lenght to height proportions (especially in the unusual GSD show stance) when the dogs aren't meant to be square :D

thanks moonmaiden,

i am impressed! she has rosehurst chris in her pedigree as a great grandparent on her mothers side!

i looked on your site and must say i was very taken with the dog there. the one that is first on your gsd page. he looks gorgeous! i would love to have more but we need a new house first!!

Chris was quite a prepotent stud & his offspring even several generations on are of the same type. Only one thing with him is that he carried the blue dilute so doubling up on both sides of the pedigree can produce blue puppies. A friend of mine had a couple in nearly every litter that they doubled up on Chris with. They were nice puppies huge with correct structure etc just something to bear in mind. I've no problem with blues appearing in litters from correctly coloured parents but breeding for the blue colour)ie blue to blue)produces even more dilute colours

Chris had a lovely temperament very laid back & like all of Eric's dogs he was obedience trained as well as being a show dog

My dog was from a working/show line & had perfect hips so much so that his plates are used to show student vets & trainee panelists for hip scoring perfect hips. He was the sire of a good few police dogs as well as show/obedience winning offspring. He was the father of Star of Cinsyl a CC winning all black bitch. Unlike a lot of dogs that carry the black gene he never produced any whites(black is the most recessive of all the GSD colours) We lost him with liver cancer when he was just 8

The other GSD is a daughter of two german imports