I am getting my new lab bitch tomorrow.  I already have 2 ckcs.  I absolutely can't wait.  BUT .... yes I do have this week off .... BUT .... yes I do work full time.  We have a dog flap and obviously I will try to train her with doing her business outside as soon as she is here.  Having read some posts on here ... I know some people are on keen at all on dogs being left during the day.  However I will give the dogs (existing and addition) (my ckcs sleep all day) all my love and attention before and after work.  Any tips please??

How old is this bitch? Obviously she's an adult or she won't have a clue about learning to use the dog flap and the garden within a week. However you'll need to keep her secure without free access to the garden for some time till she's settled in and realises she's in her new home or she'll be escaping from the garden to find her way 'home' again.

Hopefully she is an adult :( Our neighbours had a big problem with their large lurcher pup and their pug when they left them during the day. The lurcher kept attacking the much smaller pug (only puppy play, but there was a big difference in size) - caused some nasty wounds.

Daisy

How old are the dogs? I am guessing the lab is a puppy, i apologise if im wrong.  THis will only work if you are fairly dedicated, in that you either come home at lunchtime or have someone come in several times a day. (If shes a puppy she will need at least three times a day feeding, possibly four depending on what the breeder feeds).  I am sure you are aware that it takes longer than a week to housetrain, and so no matter how much progress you make this week, i very much doubt any puppy would understand that they have to go outside to toilet without you prompting them. It usually takes at least a couple of months for the concept to totally sink in, most owners have to take them out every hour and wait for them to perform.
As i am sure you are aware labs are somewhat differnt to ckcs in that they are a working breed who can be very active. A lab puppy is not going to sleep all day, especially as she gets older, she will most likely chew alot and want to play. Labs can not be taken for very long walks until at least a year because of their joints, and so will need more mental stimulation than physical exercise in order to prevent her from getting up to mischief.
To be honest, unless this dog is approaching her later years in life and is used to being left all day, then i can't see this working, as labs do like to be part of the family, and young labs need alot of attention which i can't see you can give by giving just a few hours a day before and after work. (I'm being honest, i work myself, but only part time and my parents look after my dogs all day, i couldn't have them if i had to leave them all day by themselves it would be unfair. )
Also, as you have a dog flap, do you have a very secure garden? THere is a lot of dog napping going on, i wouldn't feel comfortable with leaving my dogs alone to roam the garden.

any tips on what?  I don't understand your post.  The best tip I could give you is to crate train your lab and employ a dog walker to come in a couple of times a day, eventually reducing to once a day so that your other dogs are not unsettled by a giant puppy who may destroy the house and your current dogs may become distressed.  I'm not a dog expert but do believe that leaving a pup alone in a house all day is asking for trouble.  FWIW, i live on my own and work full time so am aware that you can have a well adjusted and happy dog even if it is not with you all day so I'm not having a go at you but it is a very expensive process to ensure there is always adequate care available for your dog e.g. pet sitters.
the other thing is that even if you do have a dog flap - is it big enough for a lab to get through?  I have visions of your whole door being demolished by an excitable lab who is bursting for a pee and play but struggling to get through the door

And if the dogflap's big enough for a labrador to get through, it's easily big enough for a burglar!

OOOOOOOOOhhhhhhhhhh crikey .... what have I done????? Maybe a lab is not for us then!!!!!!!!  Has anybody got any idea what sort of dog would be okay in my circumstances????  I suppose another toy dog? (but I really wanted a recent size one).

Unless someone can get home at regular intervals during the day (every 3 hours maximum - puppies don't train themselves) don't consider getting any sort of puppy. You say your cavs sleep all day - without being sarky, their other option is to destroy things. A puppy, like a human child, won't sleep all day - it'll take the destruction route. A mature, housetrained toy breed might tolerate the lack of exercise (being smaller they can run fast in a much smaller space than a bigger dog) but all will miss the human input into their lives.

To give you an example - an adult labrador will need a minimum of two walks daily, lasting about an hour each. A puppy can't be given that much because of the pressure of developing joints, and so will need more hours of brain-work to satisy its need for activity.

I would also be very wary to leave 3 dogs together where 2 are so much smaller than the other, as accidents can and do happen. I've never left my Cavaliers unattended with my Goldens (have had the 2 breeds for the past 11 years), or any others larger than them, especially not young Goldens as they are boisterous and playful and clumsy -and as far as I am aware Labs are the same. :) I had a Golden accidentally sit on a cat once, the cat had to have complete crate rest for a month to heal up.

Although it ISN'T ideal some of us do manage when we work full time and take on puppies. It takes lots of hard work and dedication and you have to give up time when you might rather be doing other things but it is posible to have a pup when you work and end up with a well balanced normal dog!!!

My Malamute is 19 or so months old now and although I had about 4 weeks off work when she first came home she pretty quickly got used to the work day routine. We got up very early to play and train and feed and left bones and activity toys etc to entertain during the day.
We stayed up later than we would normally have done to ensure she got plenty pf quality time in the evenings also and as soon as she was old enough she was having decent exercise in the mornings and afternoons after work and a variety of training classes in the evenings ... she is a well balanced normal dog - as are all mine.
I can't see a change to me having to work full time for a long time :( But next time we are ready for a puppy I won't hesitate to have another.

i dont understand. why have dogs and be out all day??:rolleyes:

:rolleyes:

Whoops ....Dont understand?? you are getting your new dog tomorrow?? and only now you think it may be the wrong idea....is this wind up??? sorry if it isnt but come on you dont suddenly think a day before you get a pup am I doing the right thing.....

We get our girlie tomorrow thought about it for 12 months been on breeder waiting list for 6 months, also have a 3 yr old  waited for him to be trained,before thinking of a pup again, am at home most of the day, work from home in and out during the day, my dogs wont be left for much longer than a couple of hours, and oh yes I work with Lab Rescue......if you are changing your mind ring the breeder now and tell her, and dont get the pup .....

Did you foster a dog as planned on your earlier post? http://www.champdogsforum.co.uk/board/topic/83223.html#fp  if so how did that go?

That's it ..... hairydog - good for you waiting for 12 months, etc, etc, etc.  Doesn't make you a better person than I am.  That's it - I'm finished with this site - I just find the people on here too condisending.

I'm sorry I ever asked for tips on here.

When you posted you expected soem opinons to be negative, and unsurprisingly some were.

No where in your post did you show that you had given acquiring this dog any proper thought and planning, vital in any case, but especially when you are at work most of the day.

If this is a pup you should have made arrangements for someone to come in to see to pups feeding at least 3 times a day just for starters.

The safety of your existing dogs, and the very different needs of a Large Gundog compared to a small Toy breed, do not seem to have been considered.

You asked for tips very late in the day.

Mine would be to engage some sort of daycare for your new pup, or adult dog (whichever it is).  Get it into a routine.

Each morning spend time training and if adult or once older take for a good walk before work (my dobe owning freidn gave hers a good hour free running every day come rain or shine).

She only took on her pups because I was able to go in and feed, spend time with, and take out for socialisation, for which she paid me.

As I mentioned this was iniatially 4 times a day reducign to fewer times, but longer walks.

Despite this she did have some toilet trainign problems at adolescence with her previous male, and all of them went through a very destrutive phase at about 9 months.  One took up al the lino, and one of the others removed a lot 9of the wall cladding, and dado rails, and a thrid chewed up two old sofas in the dogs room.

another un-happy new person i see cant everyone see how strongly they come across to new people on here not everyone knows everything about bringing up the perfect dog. please try to see it all from our side and im sure this place would be much nicer.

I see a person who's been given good advice on how to avoid having a desperately unhappy dog, before its too late.

'This place' speaks for dogs - the people should be able to speak for themselves. :)

I don't think there are "sides" are there? Leastways I've never really considered there to be and I'm a relative newbie.

However, there are some very experienced people on here (no, I'm not one of them!) whose expertise is matched by passionate desire to see the right outcome for dogs and thus will do their best to answer any questions put to them. Sometimes the answers to questions will raise difficult issues and these may well be expressed firmly. But if the alternative to providing clear and honest answers is some sort of fluffy mutual appreciation society then give me the Fluff Free Zone any day!

There are also a number of WUM who keep crawling out of the woodwork and specialise in asking potentially loaded questions in order to throw a major Flounce. So be aware that not every incidence of hurt feelings are anything of the sort.

We've had Pomeranian's for years.  I would never ever leave any of them with my Spanish Water Dogs, not even for 2 minutes, never mind all day.

I don't like the idea of dog flaps either, for one anything could happen to them outside in a garden and for another you just never know what can be going back into them, foxes all sorts i wouldhave thought.

Regarding the being away all day.  I work full time but when I get home all of my hours then are spent with my dogs.  They are my life and what I work for so that I can afford to look after them properly.  My evenings are spent taking my different dogs to different training classes and my weekends are also taken up with my dogs.  So you can work full time and give your dogs what you need, but it is hard work.

Just because you work does not mean you cannot have a dog! So long as you come home or have someone that does come home at lunch etc then it's fine. But thats if it's a full house trained dog, not a puppy. I'm afraid having a lab pup and being out all day with a dog flap you will find most of your house outside scattered across the garden.

>I'm afraid having a lab pup and being out all day with a dog flap you will find most of your house outside scattered across the garden.

lol - I can relate to that.  We don't have a dog flap but my dog is a gundog and sometimes I still have to take items off her as she waits to be let out.  My daughter wasn't too pleased one morning when she eventually found one of her trainers outside :D

hmm looks like she didnt like what everyone said,she obviously had doubts hence the tantrum!! personally, i would never consider getting a pup if i was working full time,isnt the joy of owning a dog spending time with it? im sure if a dog could talk they'd agree? i understand peoples circumstances change and maybe have to end up working full time to make ends meet etc, but getting a pup while you work full time is utter madness in my opinion,and as for us all being rude,well maybe she should think about what she is doing rather than just getting a pup on a whim. sorry-but my concerns are with the dogs.

Even the title she gave the thread shows that she knew what she was planning was wrong! To get huffy when people agree is just weird! :rolleyes:

Almost didnt want to reply..but i'll give it a go.

This forum is managed by very passionate people.  It would scare anyone off.  I've read post going back two years about a topic i was researching and man can it get fiery here.  The concept that one must no longer be employed to enjoy their new puppy (which i'm guessing they used the funds from thier employment to purchase) is just dumb.  And to make someone feel that they have done something wrong because of this is also very wrong.  Cindy, i'm not surprised if you leave this forum, i've pointed friends in this direction and they have come and gone as well, but enjoy your purchase and work with crate training.  You don't have to reply her, feel free to PM me, but I am curious if you work far from home?

Somedays, i think the people on this forum are all pensioners who either have never worked or on the dole.  They are of the same mindset of why work full time if you have children.....

Cindy, pick up a book on crate training.. is the best advice, and if you can get home to walk him at lunch, great or possibly a neighbor? 

The concept that one must no longer be employed to enjoy their new puppy (which i'm guessing they used the funds from thier employment to purchase) is just dumb.  And to make someone feel that they have done something wrong because of this is also very wrong.  Cindy, i'm not surprised if you leave this forum, i've pointed friends in this direction and they have come and gone as well, but enjoy your purchase and work with crate training.

I'm sorry, but what a load of rubbish. The great majorty of posts said it could work if it was NOT A PUPPY, and if the Labrador and the cavaliers weren't left unuspervised together due to the risks involved. To say that any dog should be left all day in a crate and just let out once (and then presumably all night as well) is just downright cruel, especially for such an active breed.

Goldmali, i agree with your post... especially since it was a misinterpretation of my posts.

I'll double check buy i don't think i said "that any dog should be left all day in a crate and just let out once (and then presumably all night as well).  In fact this is the foundation of crate training at all.

I'll paraphrase here.. so dont crucify me (can i use the word crucify? :rolleyes:).  I asked if she could make it home for lunch, i asked if she could get a neighbor or friend to let puppy out of crate during the day....i never suggested she leave the puppy in crate during the night without taking it out....

Since no one has asked Sindy, how were the other two dogs you have house trained? (Notice folks, that she has two dogs that seem to use a dog flap).

Cindy, pick up a book on crate training.. is the best advice, and if you can get home to walk him at lunch, great or possibly a neighbor?

This is what I interpreted vodaberry. :) I.e. get a crate and if at possible get him out of it once a day.

ah... understandable goldmali... i think faster than i type.  i also assumed something about her word day based on my own work experience... i looked at it as a 9 to 5 where she could walk the puppy before 9 and at 1 at lunch... then back home at 5... Although not ideal, not out of the scope of possibility... and then i was hoping to have a neighbor help our or a friend.

my apologies.

Interesting.  I've just gone through all the posts made by Cindy, and Ialthough at the outset she seemed genuine, I now believe that she is a fantasist.    In her first post, in June, she talked about already  having a couple of labs <<Hi, I have 2 labs who are eating my kitchen floor whilst I am at work.  Want to get a kennel with a run - , then later in June we get this <<Do you think it would work having an older lab??  I wouldn't have any other dog apart from a lab cos I really do love them.  >>   Less than 2 weeks later she posts this <<Incidentally I am interested in what outdoor kennel you have.  Did you make it yourselves or buy it??  I'm interested cos I'm getting my house ready for my new arrival (lab) in a few weeks time >>

Ten days later she was posting thus <<I had exactly the same thing with my lab .... again worked during day and my husband got so fed up.  I actually rehomed my gorgeous boy (Bruno) about 12 mths ago.>>.    

Now we come to December, and we have, first of all <<Hi, I am getting my 6 month old lab after Xmas - really excited.  However she will >>, followed, 2 days later, by this <<Hi everyone, I work full time (9-5) and would love to foster a dog over the Xmas period >>.

This in turn is followed by <<I am getting my new lab bitch tomorrow.  I already have 2 ckcs. on the 26th - which is the start of this thread.

I've deliberately made all the above copy inserts, because too often we are accused of being hard on "newbies" and unwelcoming.   If I  recognise these threads, so do others of longstanding.     Don't jump on us when we don't go positive reactions to everyone.

Sadly, this would seem to be someone who would like to own a dog - but doesn't :(

Margot

>Notice folks, that she has two dogs that seem to use a dog flap

Maybe cavs are geniuses? I don't know, I've never owned one. But I do know a bit about labs, and I know for a fact that a lab puppy cannot be housetrained well enough to reliably use a dog flap in a week. It might be possible with a well-adjusted adult one ...

Maybe cavs are geniuses?

Some are JG my JD taught himself to use the catflap & he also taught Lou however Lou is now too big to use the catflap :( but JD happily takes himself off through it still. My older cavalier has never shown any interest but then he is the laziest dog in the world

I haven't commented on this thread as I two had spotted the inconsistancies with previous posts

Actually the dog flap caught my attention as well... i was just wondering how she got her other dogs housetrained, and why the concern over a third one... although, now that ive read the post above your's by loki... im even more confused.

As with all posts we are very passionate about our dogs, and I am no different to any of you....when I read posts like this and can give what I hope is positive..advice and then we in our rescue have had 300 Labs this year I tend to get a bit off my trolly. !

Most of us know on here that dog ownership is a serious thing, and we are all responsible to our own breeds, I have wanted another pup for 18 months but no I trained my lad up then went to several breeders etc and we were even let down earlier in the Summer by one, but now she is coming.
Yes I guess I am in a fortunate position to work from home but have to say would not consider a dog if have to work full time. Dogs need companionship,from their humans.
I know it is not a perfect world and we all have to work, my hubby works very long hours, and it is up to me to look after the dogs on my own, he helps when he gets home, we have had to make sacrificies for the dogs,less money BUT, we have the dog/s and that is our life.
I would not like to say to anyone if you work you must NOT have a dog, but as others have said before, think carefully,have someone to come in and look after pup, etc etc.....
No dog ownership is a very serious thing and if sindy did not like our replies, and she knows how passionate we are about our dogs, why ask...??

The vast majority of posts have said exactly the same a puppy cannot be left all day.  Arrangements need to be made for daycare.

The posters original post states her current dogs are left all day and gives the impression that the new dog will be expected to do the same, and then she asked for tips.

A day before she is supposed to get the pup is a bit late don't you agree?  Getting decent day care into place for a pup is not something done easily or quickly.

I pointed out that I have done this service for working dog owning freinds, and how it has worked, but that inevitabley there would still be consequences in damage when you are talking about an active working breed..

Before I picked up my pup I had no end of offers from friends and family to look after my dog should I go away etc.  It was not my intention to leave my pup/dog for long periods during the day or to go on holiday that year so it didn't matter to me whether I got offers or not.  However, once my friends and family became acquainted with my bundle of energy and mischief the offers stopped and now that I intend to go on holiday in February there is no one at this point that I can rely on to take her.  I am not one to rely on other people for anything so it doesn't concern me but would I have got a pup/dog without firm arrangements in place for care throughout the day? No I would not.

Questions that arose for me from OP were:

Why when working full time would you want yet another dog? 

What would happen if the new dog doesn't get on with the 2 cavs, bearing in mind the OP is at work all day?

What if there is no one that can be relied on to let the new dog out during the day?

IMO the problem is not that the owner is working full time but that she hasn't thought through the basics even though she is supposed to have 2 dogs already and should be fully aware of considerations for taking on a new dog. 

Anyway it seems that Lokis mum has discovered the real reason for posting isn't anything to do with getting a dog but for some strange reason getting a kick out of winding up members on this forum

When I saw the first couple of posts on this thread, I realised that there were several discrepancies in the postings, and resolved not to post at all on it.

However, when I saw that it had degenerated into the "let's moan at the regulars on Champdogs" I felt tht I had to.   This may be one sad individual who hasn't got a dog/life :(   Or it may be one of the nastier "Lets Ruin Champdogs Brigade".

Margot

Good detective work Margot.Gosh it really makes you wonder what on earth you can or can't believe, doesn't it.

Why is it as soon as someone dares to critisise the way some people on this forum talk to newbies you all assume it is a windup. Is it so unbearable to think about that they might just possibley have a point? I work full time, so do several of my doggy friends and our dogs are ok. A couple of them read this site but wont post because they are too worried about the reaction they will get. I know the regulers are very passonate about their dogs and feel they need to stick up for the dogs, and I know you are very knowlegedable about dogs. But we all have to start learning somewhere so please, try to be a bit kinder to newbies.

Even to newbies whose stories don't hold water?

Actually, people were being kind, and offering practical advice, to avoid unhappiness for both animal and owner. What could be more important than that?

Sorry Jean, I dont understand that, what do you mean?

but the ones who are telling the truth then feel really un-wanteed about here everyone was new once.

HayzeyDogs you got lots of helpful and friendly advice on your own threads - so a couple of losers decided to be abusive but then the rest of us put up with that all the time!  In the main I don't see how you were made to feel "unwanted"    

The ones who are telling the truth will have no worries about answering any queries when people naturally ask for more information. :)

Everyone's (including all the 'oldsters'!) first posts omit details which could be very important in getting the right answer: a question like "How can I stop my dog barking?" (a common one) is too vague for a good answer to be possible. So the poster will be asked how old the dog is, under what circumstances it barks, what breed it is, etc. All details which make practical help more reliable. Questions like this aren't in the least challenging as some view them; imagine if you went to your doctor complaining of a pain in your tummy. You'd expect to be asked all sorts of questions, not just advised to take a painkiller - after all, it could be an ulcer or appendix problem! Likewise here - the more detail given, the better for everyone.

When the detail in one post contradicts that given previously, alarm bells naturally ring ...

that really makes sense i totally see your point now
how do i do the smiley things besides the ones at the top ?

"Everyone's (including all the 'oldsters'!) first posts omit details which could be very important in getting the right answer..."

That's exactly what I did with my first coupla topic posts but I've learnt my lesson

More a case of Even to newbies who don't like the truth :rolleyes:

I think some of them forget that most of us actually give priority to the dogs!  

That's hit the nail on the head, Teri.

what I find interesting is that even when people suspect that a post is a wind up they just keep replying to it. I mean, is it like a nervous twitch? You type and click on post and have no control over it? You all go on and on about WUM but then keep talking to them........Why?

Becuase there's always the chance that they might be genuine! If we didn't reply, people would moan that we were being unfriendly, unhelpful and cliquey to a newbie. We can't win, can we? :rolleyes: