My dogs are currently on burns dried food and do quite well on it. However, after a recent tummy upset, my springer had to have sensitivity control wet food (which he loves so no problem there.) He seemed much more content on it, wasn't trying to steal food as much and wasn't quite so hyper, however because he was unwell it is difficult to tell how much was feeling under the weather and how much was the food. Because the sensitivity control is expensive i switched to chappie which is very similar. My question is, do you think the wet food could cause a behaviour change? As soon as we went back to burns he seemed much more bouncy, but again its hard to know if that was just him feeling better. As burns is a complete food would it be wrong to give him a tin of chappie in the morning and his usual burns in the evening? He was very underweight when we got him (hes 18 mths now) and still quite ribby, but he seems so hungry all the time on burns. DOes anyone else do something similar?

I find my dogs are more satisfied after a 'wet' meal (which they have in the evening) than their 'dry' (although I add hot water to the bowl before serving) which they have in the morning.

Some dogs aren't suited to Bruns and you may find that your Springer is one of them.

A lady I know who has a few Boxers saw a friends dog and remarked at what wonderful
condition he was in. She asked what they fed and Burns was the reply.

So she bought some Burns to try her dogs on it. They lost coat condition (coat and skin became dry and scurfy)
and her dogs dropped so much weight that she started supplementing them with chicken as well as the Burns.
She also remarked that her dogs always seemed hungary.

She went back to her original feed and the dogs have returned back to 'normal' without the need for
extra supplementation.

With my dogs I found that their coats went very dry and skin very scurfy on Burns.

My vet actually reccommends tinned Chappie to her clients (and yes they also sell Hills ;) )

vets on the whole dont understand what goes in to food so any advice from them is the same as the man in the street

Due to the very stingent entrance requirements at veterinary college (I don't know any courses that have a higher requirement, do you? :)) I think it fair to say that the average vet is probably more intelligent and better educated than the average man in street.  Added to their probable interest in dog health and the fact that they will have access to every bit of information that we have I find it difficult to imagine they are ignorant of what goes into food and of course due to their physiology and aetiology studies they will understand very well what is required for a dogs well being.

Certainly right about the entrance requirements - my daughter wanted to be a vet, but needed much more rigorous qualifications than my son did to get into Cambridge.

Just as there are people here who have equally diverse opinions on food - there are bound to be vets with the same difference in opinion :) :)

Daisy

Yes bound to have a few difference :) but at least you would expect them all to use their undoubted study skills to evaluate the information in a trained and dispassionate way.  Because, like all scientists, though they will have been taught to look for the largest body of opinion rather than just others in support of their own theories ;) you would expect a consensus of opinion to form pretty strongly.

we switched our ddb to burns and must admit he hasnt put hardly any weight on since being on it..we mixed chappie,nature diet in to the burns..wont touch it on its own.

Isabel we have had this discussion before so I am not going to go over it again, but  a vet IS not A nutritionist   so they  push foods such as Hills and chappie because its an Easy option  it don't make the fact that they are" greater mortals" than the rest of us. Understanding What's go into foods is not their Priority and at the end of the day a healthy dog is of no use to a vet so why should the promote healthy eating if it cost them income.-jo 

jo may I ask if you are a nutritionist?

>a healthy dog is of no use to a vet so why should the promote healthy eating if it cost them income

Have you anything to support that statement I have no experience of ever having a vet give the impression that he would like my dogs to be unhealthy.
I am happy to explain again that a nutritionist is an ancilliary health worker who specialises in putting together diets based on data supplied by veterianary scientists in the first place.  Vets learn about anatomy, physiology and aetiology in depth and would therefore have a very good understanding of the role and effects of nutrients. As you, say, same old same old ;)
I would dispute that they push certain foods because they are an easy option but that is certainly not the rationale that I put forward for suggesting they would be better informed than the average man in the street, if you remember it was on the basis that veterinary colleges have such exacting entry requirements and demanding examinations :)

This is factually incorrect.

"putting together diets based on data supplied by veterianary scientists in the first place"

No, the people who do the research are research scientists.  Not the people who attend vet school, hoping to become practising vets.

I would suggest they would have had to have studied veterinary science in order to carry out veterinary research.   I doubt it would be possible to study the phyiological effects on an animal if you do not understand anatomy and physiology in the first place.  Not everyone leaving veterinary school chooses to become a veterinary surgeon :)

Have to say, I totally agree with Jo here.

I think this post is being 'hijacked' away from Lucy and meg's original posting/question.
Let's get back to the original posting question.

Some foods can produce hyperactivity in some dogs.

Tinned Chappie is a 'complete' food in a tin (as per tin label) so I guess you could use it as a complete
meal in the morning and Burns in the evening if you wanted.

It's basically finding out what suits YOUR dog and they are all individuals.

Good Luck Lucy and Meg, hope your springer gets much better soon.

do you think the wet food could cause a behaviour change?

Yup,there could be something in the Burns that your dog reacts too.Just like with kids,some ingredients,preservatives etc. send them loopy (i hope i understood your question correctly)

As burns is a complete food would it be wrong to give him a tin of chappie in the morning and his usual burns in the evening?

Do whatever feels right and what your dog does best on,as they are both 'touted' as 'complete' foods than you cant go far wrong. IMO canned/wet foods are a healthier and more natural diet for dogs than dry over processed kibble,FWIW it's a myth that canned foods produce bad teeth and kibble keeps them clean.All dogs should get raw meaty bones,or dental chews etc. to help keep their teeth and gums in tip top condition no matter what their main food source is.

If you need good solid nutrition advice seek out a vet who has done that extra diploma OR a holistic vet who specialises in this field.

My old vet gasped when he found out i gave my dogs rmb's,he insisted they should be cooked first He also said i should be feeding them science plan,when i asked why would i want to feed my dogs peanut hulls,fillers by-products etc. instead of a holistic kibble and fresh foods he couldnt come up with an intelligent answer,other than it has been designed by veterinary scientists(so it must be good),not to worry that they also make soap products,shampoo's etc, :rolleyes: not that much different to pet foods,right .Vets can be brainwashed by the big companies who fund and supply the  reading material and give their little talks on nutrition in vet school just as easily as the average pet owner :) It's just that they are in a high position of trust and you really,really want to believe they know best and advise what IS right for your dog,but unfortunately they do not have an endless supply of knowledge in their heads and can not possible know everything that a dog needs.A seperate nutrition diploma takes another 4 years on top of their normal vet schooling to complete,this is obviously how long it takes for them to be well versed in this ONE subject,it would be impossible for them to learn about this adequatly in vet school when they have all the other "more important" things to study,such as treating and diagnosing disease,most of which can be sucessfully treated with approriate nutrition,rather than the quick fix/cover up of steroids antibiotics etc..Which of these would be easier for a vet to prescribe,do you think ;)

A few years ago i had the privilege of sitting in on one of their nutrition seminar's and  i admit they were good,very good, and 'nearly' convinced me into believing their speels!! Most vets have a particular interest in one field or another,a vet who chooses nutrition as his main interest is a Rare gem indeed :(

>not to worry that they also make soap products,shampoo's etc,  not that much different to pet foods,right

Hailey, you seem to misunderstand how these parent companies function. :) Think of them as being like a family. Father's job is as a printer. One child becomes a plumber, one a postman, another a nurse, yet another runs a newsagency. They're all members of the same family, and all bring home money for the household, but each one is entirely independent in what they do. Parent companies are the same - the profits from the individual companies go into the pot and are shared with the other shareholders, but the plumber has no say in how the printworks is run ...

Hope this helps. :)

Hailey, can you give us a reference, to a prospectus perhaps, for this nutritional diploma that takes 4 years following a veterinary degree?  As I have said many times :) it seems absurd to me to suggest that people who have such a competent degree as those issued by veterinary colleges would not have sufficient study skills to be able to analyse all the information that you and I have at our disposal plus all that they have in addition through their professional journals etc. 
As you say yourself it is impossible to seperate out the diagnosis and treatment of disease from the subject of nutrition does it not seem remarkable, then, that you and I have spotted the connection but not the Deans of all the veterinary colleges?  Of course if they are studying Anatomy, Physiology and Aetiology already, which I suspect they are, the subject will already be included as it is an essential part of these subjects.
If it is like any other scientific qualification a tendancy to be "brainwashed" rather than an ability to analyse would be pretty much a guarantee of failure to graduate.

Hailey can you please tell us what qualifications you have in dog nutrition?

To the OP - My dog has been fed on tinned and dried complete.  On two of the dried complete (pedigree and Purina) she exhibited a behaviour that I wasn't happy with.  I didn't realise it was the food until I changed it to JWB and we haven't looked back since. My dog has plenty of energy and a glossy coat.  However, I do add to her diet extras such as veg and fruit (small quantities). 

This is my experience and from numerous posts that I have read onother threads I think it is safe to say that dogs, like people, vary from individual to individual and whereas many foods will suit many dogs, some don't suit some dogs and you have to swap about to find the one that does.

Go with your instincts and don't worry too much about what some people say ;) 

Good luck

Hailey can you please tell us what qualifications you have in dog nutrition?

Why,do you need a question answered? :)

Go with your instincts and don't worry too much about what some people say

DITTO ;)

I asked the question because it seems unfair to slate the vets generally when you can't possibly know that all vets don't have the necessary nutrition qualifications.  There is nothing wrong with making assumptions based on the knowledge provided on tins and packets but that is not the whole story. Unless you have studied nutrition at an academic level and been able to analyse the cost/benefits of commercial foods you are no better a judge than any one of us.  Because you have researched via the internet does not make you an expert, the real rich and meaningful research will only be provided at an academic level and unless you have access to university databases that provide such data your opinion is just that, an opinion. 

We all provide what we think is best based not just onthe knowledge, but our lifestyles and budgets as well.  We might all like to be purists but in an imperfect world this is not possible for most people.