i feel daft having to say this but,i have a problem which i do need to sort out a.s.p.
the kids have been fine with douglas,the older on (9) and the little one(3) they have shown Douglas where he comes in the pecking order(so to speak)..but and its a huge but...the middle one (6) is having problems which i feel are getting worse every day.He has learning difficulties and it doesnt matter how many times we tell him not to run round,put his hands in the dogs mouth ext..it makes no differance.Douglas has taken to growling and snapping at him when ever possible now and i cant seem to let them be in the same room if i`m not there.Cam wont tell him off for biting and even lies down on the floor for him to do it.We have tried everything that we can to make Douglas see that Cam is above him..ie Cam feeds him most times ..makes him sit and then takes the bowl away after a few seconds.we put him in his crate while the kids eat then he gets fed after.he is fine with everyone else after his ennisial nippy stage which he knows is not torrolated.he reacts to "leave it" and "NO" from all of us exept cam.Even next doors dog has a problem with him..jumping on him extra.Weve let the kids play with next doors dog since a puppy and she is a lovely dog who tolerates the little ones lovely... but Cam...Douglas starts classes in august but i`m at my whits end with what to do...apart from changing my son or dog which i most definatly wont do...please anyone can you help me stop this.
p.s dont know if this is relavant but douglas has taken to going up the stairs and when i go to retreive him he barks at me and runs off.this is the only time he has shown agrression to me....HELP

Chrissie, your son has got to come first. Some people will not agree, but imo, this is one of those situations where you have to smack the dog, and if necessary smack him hard enough and often enough that he gets the message telling wherever he sees your son in the pecking order, YOU won't put up with him snapping at any child or person, especially your son.

Hi Chrissie, I feel the same on this occasion. You really have got your hands full with the children and a naughty dog. I feel from your post that he is not really bad, probably a bit frightened actually. I am not usually a person who smacks dogs as a punishment, but I feel in this particular case, something must be done before someone gets bitten. I am sure there will be posters reply with more experience in this kind of thing than I have, I wish you all the very best in getting your problem sorted.

Sorry guys but I'm on Douglas' side and if somebody was putting their hands in my mouth or running around I would probably chase after them in excitement as well. Don't forget Douglas is only a young puppy around 15 weeks if that :(

Cocker Spaniels are friendly and stubborn dogs and if they can get away with something or rather know they can get away with things with different family members they will play on it. Rather than a smack why not grab him by the scruff of the neck and then say NO !!! I found this worked with mine when they were puppies.

If the nextdoor neighbours dog does the same with Cam then it isn't really Douglas' fault is it :(

You might have to be firmer with Cam as well and get the elder of the children to help out as well.

When you say that he is going up the stairs and when you go and get him he is barking at you. He probably knows that he is being naughty and wants you to chase after him. Just be really firm when you are telling him off and if you don't want him to be upstairs tell him off firmly. The tone of the voice has a large part to play in dog training etc so make sure that it is firm.

Sorry I can't offer any more advice, but I just wanted to say that it isn't all Douglas' fault.

Dessie :)

Hi Dessie, Hope you didnt think I was saying it was all Douglas fault, cause I wasnt :) :)

Hi Philippa

Oh no I didn't think you were saying that it was all Douglas' fault, but I just wanted to express that :) If you see what I mean.

I know Cockers can be a handful if you are not firm enough with them, by being firm I don't mean smacking etc I just mean the tone of your voice and not letting them get away with murder. I have three Boys and spoilt my first one something rotten as he was the first dog I ever had, hence I can't leave him in his cage at Shows as he cries all the time when he can't see me, or take him to the UK and leave him in a Hospitality Tent as he would cause such a comotion, with crying, howling and barking etc. My fault as he was my special baby, but I've learnt with the other two :D :D

Dessie

Hi Dessie, I don't think it Douglas' fault either, and if Cam didn't have problems, I would suggest being stricter with him. But Chrissie tells us he does, so Douglas - unfortuantely - just has to learn that he must not snap at Cam.

Its the same attitude I take to sheep chasing. A puppy or untrained dog can't be blamed for chasing sheep because chasing things that run away is natural for a dog. But if it does, the dog is going to get shot and the sheep mauled, so it is just something where, unfairly or not, a tough attitude has to be taken if gentler methods don't work.

With Cam and Douglas, if this goes on as Douglas gets older Cam may well get hurt, or Chrissie may findthat she has to rehome Douglas. So fair to Douglas or not, it has to be stopped.

Well I am also of the opinion that the child must come first . The little boy is only trying to play and a puppy usually loves to play . I think you must chastise the puppy and make sure he does not get away this behaviour anymore . It is for his own good he learns growling and snapping is not allowed . If it is allowed to carry on because you are faint hearted , [meant in the nicest possible way] then the pup may well decide to bite then if the bite is serious you will have decisions to make. I would also say if he snaps at a child outside the home you may fnd yourself in trouble. So dont let it go further . roll a newspaper up and sellotape it . use this to threathen his bad behaviour and you will see how quickly he gets the message. A rolled newspaper will not hurt him.Its just better than a hand as the dog must learn to trust the hand and if you hit him with your hand he will cower from it forever. so some bum smacks with the paper and firm no's is how I would deal with it. After all the pup is to give you all pleasure and grow up into a loving pet , no pleasure if he has to be watched all the time in case he bites. Best wishes Mari

im not sure how to say this, but i mean it kindly--if your son has learning difficulties then his reactions noises etc will probably be slightly different to the other kids, --dogs are very sensitive to all around them, they watch and learn from our body language, attitudes etc, i think perhaps the dog see's your son as different and is reacting to it,---i hope you can see what i mean-:D

hI Dizzy

What a diffcult situation, i sympathise :)

I tend to differ a little bit from what some of the other guys say, because in my view if you punish Douglas for snapping, he may start to associate your little boy with being punished and there is then a risk he will get worse.

If Douglas is OK with eveyone else, and not little Cam, then he is unsure about Cam and it therefore unfair to punish him. I have worked with kids with learning difficulties, also my "brother in law" has LD's so I do know a bit about what it is like - NOT easy!!! HUm - it is very difficult but can you manage the situation until maybe Cam goes to school, I am not sure what the answer is, maybe provide Douglas with more space, a bolt hole - somewhere Cam is NOT allowed to go.....

I just feel the dog is reacting in a fairy normal way from what you have said, perhaps he finds it difficult living with Cam and doesn't yet understand about him, and gets confusing signals from him, for example if Cam lets him put his mouth on his hands, then you say he mustn't, etc...

If it continues or gets worse, I would suggest getting in touch with a behaviourist who may be able to help more than we can, and will understand exaclty what is going on. I could try to help with finding a reputable one if you like, if you later decicde it would help :)

Best wishes with a difficult situation
Lindsay

Hi Chrissy,

Does Cam ever sleep? I mean a deep sleep when things won't disturb him. If so have Douglas around him then and teach him the word "gently" and this must always be said in a very calm level voice. You an also do this with the other children but it is most important that he learns to be quiet and calm around Cam whatever he is doing and it will be easiest to start when he is asleep so he learns the command.

When ever Douglas does something nice, calm, quiet such as put his head on you or gently gives you a toy then use the "gentle" command coupled with "gooood boy". We used to use this with my dogs and daughter and all except the youngest who didn't really know her for long still react almost instantly to "gently".

Basically - when all around you is chaos stay a centre of calm and hopefully this will calm both Douglas and Cam down. If you can keep them separate when Cam is at his liveliest this should also help

Christine

Dizzy, Lindsay & Christine

You have exactly the same thoughts as me, but I just didn't explain it very well :)

You are totally right that Douglas will pick up that Cam is different to everybody else in the family. Dogs are not stupid and will definately sense these differences.

Good idea to let Douglas go by Cam when he is asleep if possible and then using commands like gentle etc.

Dessie

I.for one dont think I have right all the answers, I am only making suggestions .I would think if it could be done the gentle way fine but somehow doubt it , having said that none of us advised beating douglas . I would never beat a pup .
I have never seen a dog make differences with a child that may have learning difficulties .
My friend Paula has two retarded children one violent , they have a black labrador and on the contrary to the opinion he is most protective of his retarded children .
I would go so far as to say retarded children seem to bond even more .
Cam only has learning difficulties so I doubt that would be a reason anyway.
Myself and my friend Paddy who also has a retarded child as a result of the whooping cough injection, regularly visit the school for special children with the dogs .
They hug and kiss them lie beside them look into their mouths to see the teeth . rub the teats and say puppy and the dogs allow it in fact love it . They sense they are special . So I am sorry although my advice may not suit , I know from experience most dogs seem to have a deeper understanding for secial children than anyone realises.
I have to be hard here now and say this . A dog has to fit in with the family all the family .
I agree when there are difficulties that extra time and patience has to be put in as long as the child is safe while doing it . but if all the efforts do not work then the risk is the child will get seriously hurt . thats a fact and children are being destroyed all the time with dogs .
so if a swipe on the bum and a stern word will sort it , then Chrissie should go for it if the wheedling does not work .
We have a duty to the dogs and need to protect them as well . so making them behave is the way to go .
I have never seen a spoilt or wilfull dog be a happy dog . Dogs need to know their place and live in harmony with us .
With time and patience this can be achieved , but when there is a child and a snappy dog there is no time .
No point in being sorry after half the childs face is gone . This is only in my opinion.
I have five dogs all children and people friendly I will not accept any other behaviour from them .
If there was any aggression from them as puppies and they were wilful and determined to have their own way then I would not trust them to be the faithful pets and companions that I now have .
best wishes Mari

Thanks everyone for your words of wisdom.Douglas is a lovely dog,who does love Cam.when Douglas is tired its Cams lap that he sits on(as cam always seems to be on the floor).
cam suffers with epilepsy and a learning delay( he attends mainstream school with support).
He doesnt like shouting at douglas when weve tried to get him to control the situation the way weve got the others doing ,"owww no".Douglas responds to everyone else with this but not Cam.Cameron is to blame as Douglas gets exited by running and sceaming.Weve tried everything we can to get him to stop this but he seems to enjoy getting douglas to chase and bite him!!!!!
Douglas goes in the puppy pen if i hear him growling and Cameron gets sent to his room for teasing him.I have a number for a behaviorist so i think i will as her to come and take a look(at the dog not the kid though that might be a v.good idea) They break up for the holidays tomorrow:(
Chrissy xxx

I've had a similar problem with Holly and Eloise. Ellie is 4 and loves to run around and squeal :( of course this is the one thing guarranteed to over-excite a puppy so I try to stop it happening too much.

The only thing that worked for me was telling Ellie very firmly that if Holly does bite her then she'l have to be taken to the vet to be killed, and I'll tell granny it was her fault. I know that's really harsh and cruel but it has worked. Ellie is too young to be reasoned so there's no point in sitting down nicely to explain why isn't unkind to upset Holly like that.

Ellie and Holly get on really well now and although Isabelle is Hollys' special friend we don't have half the problems with Ellie and Holly that we used to have. I try to keep Holly and Eloise apart now as much as possible and Holly prefers to keep well away from her - she'd much rather sleep under the pc chair or play with Issy.

Good luck with Cam and Douglas - I hope you manage to get it sorted out.

Fiona
x x x

I totally agree with Mari.

Carissa

Wise words Mari :-)