Does anyone have a dog that has been hip scored and has hip problems.

I am trying to find out at what sort of score level a dog starts to have pain/problems.  I am aware that some very fit dogs can be severely dysplastic by x-ray, but clinically sound (does this last the whole of their lives) but what about the majority

TIA

A friend has a dog with a score of 38 and he had severe problems before the age of 2 !!!  Another one of her dogs is about the same and she shows no problems at all.

My dogs luckily all have low scores thankfully or around my breeds average.

Hi Kerioak,

I can only comment on the last part of your thread :)  I know of a dog scored in the high 70's and he appeared sound on the move etc and enjoyed free running and exercise with the other family dogs.  Their vet felt that his particularly good muscle tone helped keep him more comfortable than a dog similarly scored getting minimum exercise.  When he reached around 10 years however (in a breed where the life span is approx 12-15 years), his hips clearly started to bother him - getting up and down from lying for eg., using stairs and generally in colder weather.  Unfortunately from no apparent problems to the first signs of him being in discomfort he went quite rapidly downhill and was pts within less than a year :(

Regards, Teri     

Hi Keriok, yes I have a Lab who has been hipscored and has hip problems...I saw from the x-ray that she had very little or no hip sockets and the spurs of arthritis has already started growing...this was at 18months...she has just turned 5 in November...Very stiff in getting up for a sleeping position, takes possibly 10mins or more to position herself into an upright stance, then takes quite a while to adjust to a reasonable balance....BUT once up and about she can and does run with the rest of the girls....I have to limit her, because she wont.....she seems to be able to climb stairs without difficulty, but she does have problems coming down as she is unable to bring her hips around seperately (ie; she bunny hops up, but cannot bunny hop down)

Now to your other parts of the post...pain...I can honestly say I have no idea if she is ever in pain or not...she never utters a sound, her eyes show no signs of pain. Her tail is always happy and her ear position is never down... She shows discomfort occasionally, but not real pain  As a sufferer of arthritis myself, I tend to compensate...I wonder if she has learned to do this without showing any visible signs (apart from bunny hopping etc) 

Her Hip score is 96...48:48
I also have her half sister, scored 13 .....6:7

Hi Christine

Dudley my youngest has a score of 87 so has severe HD.

She is however a very fit and active dog and once in a blue moon will need a dose of metacam if she has really over done it but besides that lives well with her condition and it hasn't in anyway changed her zest for life :)

The vet has commented on how good her muscle tone is as well so I think we are managing her condition well :)

My GSD bitch has severe HD and a hip score of 48/48 - 96.  She's 9 year old now. 

No problems at all until she was 8 and we had a flair up in the real cold weather last November I think it was.  She was in pain and limping following rest after a walk.  It was a bitter cold week; I had 3 pairs of gloves on and fingers that ached when I got back to the house.  I blamed myself for that as I should have known better.

Anyhow, she's had hydrotherapy sessions on and off when she was about 5 to 7 and when she was 8; she went back into Hydrotherapy full-time (weekly sessions).  I knew her hips were bad and I was hoping with good muscle tone in the hind quarters, it would help her.  She's also on Synoquin (Glucosamine & Chondroitin) and she is motoring along and skipping about in great spirits....so far. 

I am aware as time passes, the hips will degenerate.  At the moment, the only clinical symptoms we are seeing is that she's a little stiff in the hind quarters when she first gets up following rest after exercise.  But she walks it out.  Sounds a bit like my back when I first get out of bed in the mornings.   She's small and fine boned for a GSD, and weighs 29 kilo.  I honestly think her size has helped.  Not only that but with swimming she's very muscular especially in the hind and front legs. 

my 3 year old boy,has hip score of 21-21=42. & has never been lame.
hes on normal exercise & no medication. i do take him swimming at a hydro pool once a week.
we live on exmoor by the sea of have lots of walks on exmoor & the beach.
he also works C obedience,with power & drive

Thanks for your replies - this is interesting, perhaps I should add age and weight as well as score and condition ?

Duds is three and weighs about 25-27kg dependant on the time of year :)

flynn is 3, & is a big collie,about 21/23kg,muscley but lean,but big boned!

Penny is 5 and I try to maintain her weight at around 28k....heavier and hips cant handle the weight....lighter, her ribs show.

My Golden is a similar answer to Spender's. 48/48. Showed no problems at all until aged 6, is now 9 (10 in April), is on Glucosamin and Chondroitin, Rimadyl worked for a while but then stopped. Without any kind of medication he can't get up at all. He looks perfect on the move and has been shown, nobody ever noticed anything. Find it hard to get up,cannot tolerate wet weather as it seems to make everything hurt more. Fine with short walks. Cannot jump into the car anymore. Hurts to sit for longer than very short periods of time.  His slimmed down weight to keep him as lean as possible (bit slimmer then he'd otherwise be) is 35 kgs.

My GSD bitch, now 3 has a total score of 48 19/29. So far, she has shown no problems. She has never yet been lame after exercise, or after rest. She is on omega 3, and Glucosamine & Chondroitin. We do occasional hydrotherapy, and she does light agility (limited height) to maintain her muscle tone (decided to do this, and don't know if it is the right thing, but it is a personal decision for us) in the worst event I would have a hip replacement op for her. I do know of another GSD with quite a bad score that does agility and also runs three miles a day. 

As i understand it though, clinical symptoms do not necessarily correspond to the score. Some dogs with good scores can be appallingly lame, and as the other posts here demonstrate, many dogs with high scores can go most of their lives without symptoms. My previous shepherd who was never scored was appalling, and eventually had both hips replaced!
Kat

>As i understand it though, clinical symptoms do not necessarily correspond to the score

I agree, I don't think the score can really determine clinical symptoms although perhaps it is more likely for a dog with a higher score to develop clinical symptoms as they go through life.  Dogs differ in age, breed, lifestyle, size, weight, temperament, and how they cope with pain.  Even in dogs that have identical hip scores i.e. 48/48 may still differ in the separate points that make up that score.   For example, my GSD had a 6 out of 6 for the norberg angle whilst Goldmali's golden for example, could have had scored lower in that particular part that makes up the score.  There are 9 different scores that make up the maximum of 53 on a hip.      

blue my fcr has a hip score of 54,in the show ring she placed at a champ and open shows,if you build up the the muscle around the hip joint you should not get a problem the same was with my gordon setter he had a score of 44 he went on to win all his classes and a rcc,

reading two good books at the moment theres are subject on hd will give details later.

That's a very good point Spender, like the rest of HD - SO many variables!!
Just hope my girl continues to do well.

Briedog, very interested in the books, look forward to the details

Merry Christmas everybody

Kat

breeding better dogs  by carmelo l battaglia phd  isbn  0932419062
genetics of dogs  by malcolm b wills  isbn 0854931767
pratical dog breeding and genetics by eleanor franking isbn 0091349303

after being very up set about bues hip score which she never had a problem,wins at shows works with andrew.
i read in the fcr newletter
under the ethics of std work, that
bith dogs and bitches should have been x ray and scored for hd both should have current eye certificates including gonioscopy,
failure in either department need not necessarily mean that the animals cannot be bred from, take the dog as a whole,type,temperament,worling/showing success and seek advice,

which we are from a top speclist in this feild,i going  to have blue re x  ray in 18 months time to see if they are have got worst she be 3 years old then, if the same i will rethink about the situation with her about breeding she only got one problem a high hip score not hd the shape of her socket are square in shape not like a ball shape,no problem in walking, running ect,we do build up the muscle around that area bye lots of stret walking.

read the books.you should not throw out the baby with the bath water that what malcolm wills told we over the phone,

There is a difference though between an actually dysplastic hip and a score that is a bit highter than average, but still within the normall limits.

This is why I like the comparison between are scores and the grading used by OFA.

They don't count a dog as dysplastic until it is over 26.

That's interesting Brainless!

What about this PennHip thing?  Quite a few people in my breed, who in my opinion do not know a lot about dogs in general are going on about PennHipping and how the BVA way is no good   I myself will carry on with the BVA scheme as surely that the amount of dogs that have been scored under this scheme and the way that they do it can't be wrong?

Apparantly PennHip is scored per breed and how can you tell what's good and bad if it's only on the breed mean and only a few of the breed have been done?

when blue had her hip  x ray the vet at the time said they couldnt get the ball in the socket at the time but still took plates when they told me that day i rush them over to a vet thats in top in his feild in orthopaedic he looked at them and said they will come back not good but there was no hd just odd shape,

weather this has got any thing to do with the sire coming from sweden that had his tested in sweden a score of an A different country different methods of scoring.

i have never had a high hip score in my breed my ranger has been fron 2 to 12 with dogs that owned and breed.

wispa the dam of blue hips were 4/4

This gives a chart comparing the schemes which helpts to make sense and compare them.
http://www.thecanaandog.co.uk/lib-health/hdscoreuk.htm

I suppose sometimes in life though like everything else, it can just happen, even with the best scoring dogs with the best scoring lines.  We can't guarantee everything in life no matter how hard we try.

Having done miles of research on HD (due to my first GSD) one thing I learned was that, on average, 25% of all pups from good scoring parents will have HD. Why is it that I feel it's always going to be me that gets part of the 25%
Kat

Hi Kat

Do you mean clinically have HD or score wise or both at some time in their lives.  How did you arrive at the figure of 25% was it though scoring them all or just the ones you ended up with.

I am asking purely because I want to learn more about the incidence of "clinical" and "score-wise" HD and if and when one is likely to become the other

I have a firend with a medium asized breed with a score of 46 she is three and has no problems

Hi Kerioak

Scorewise, not necessarily clinically. I didn't come up with the percentage, this was something I discovered when trawling the www for HD info, I can't however remember the sites. I have a feeling they were GSD sites.

I don't think it's possible to be rigid, and say if you have X score, the dog will exhibit clinical symptoms in x period of time, with x severity. As spender said, there are so many variables within the score range of each point of the hip whereby the different combinations could produce different or no clinical signs, and a lower score produce quite severe clinical signs. It's a minefield really.

Kat