Actually I'm surprised that ANYONE would risk let their children watch GR F word on the box!? Seems like it's asking for Kids to be shocked and sworn at!!!

I buy my meat locally from an old fashioned slaughterhouse and butcher and not from the supermarket. I know that the animals have not travelled far and have been treated properly. Also if we did not eat meat, what would we have standing in our fields today? Do you think that farmers would continue to farm or that we would have pastures etc at all? Just a thought.

From what I can tell, people are getting ideas that myself and the original OP are complaining about the ways animals are killed for meat! Neither of us said that (well, I certainly didn't anyway), all I was saying is that it's not nice to watch.

IMO anyone who can sit and say that they'd happily watch a bird being slaughtered and then chopped up is a little 'strange' :)

'Happily' is, I think, the wrong word; I don't feel it's something to be hidden away, as though it's something shameful. I think that is a little unhealthy. :)

Quote: And i just wanna say im not advere to this being done - it has to be, i just dont think its appropriate at this time, saying that anytime.

Just incase any of you missed me saying that!
I know it has to be done!!!!! I just dont want to be seeing it - AND as i said the 1st two were reasonably ok - it was the 3rd with the close up that did it for me.
As you all want your children to watch this what do you think is a reasonable age cos i know i woiuldnt let my child watch till about 7+

I would have thought a reasonable age to see this would be the same age as a child should witness animals being born. They're both equally important in the cycle of life. :)

Exactly JG - it is part of life, birth and death, and certainly something that I have been brought up with from birth and so have my own children.  Killing animals for food is not 'dirty' and 'shameful' to be hidden away and kept secret from children they should know and understand this part of life as well as they understand how life begun in the first place.

My children have all known about slaughtering animals for food - I have taught them about it from the age of the first 'fluffy animals' book - saying things like "Sheep, baby sheep is a lamb, ba ba lamb, good with mint sauce and rosemary - oh look, there's a lamb in that field and the farmer is there too, do you think the farmer is going to take the lamb to slaughter for our dinner today ?"  Some people may see that as a scik thing to say to children - but ALL mine are not fussy eaters, they understand about animals being bread for our food, they know that the fluffy lamb in the field will soon be dinner and they are not shocked, sick or unsensitive children, but good, caring, responsible members of the community who don't preach about being a vege because killing animals for food is disgusting and cruel to the animal :)

Warnings were given on the programme (more warnings than you get on a regular episode of eastenders !) and if you didn't like it switch off and don't watch it - don't watch a darn programme then complain about it for heavens sake, I hate the contents of the soaps, I don't watch and complain I just DON'T watch them !

Actually, I wouldn't let mychildren watch a programme in which the main presenter swears like that (if my children were still young) . That would worry me FAR more than the killing of a turkey ;) JMO

Too right, Mel.

Hmmm..... what about eastenders and coronation street - people allow their kids to watch these programmes (in fact my own childrens friends who come round are shocked and disappointed when they find out that we DON'T watch such drivel !)  and IMHO the soaps are more shocking then any GR programme.

Well, not that this may come as a surprise to those that know me! BUT I HATE EASTENDERS AND CORONARTION STREET!!!

Even when I see clips for EE I am appaulled(SP) at the violence and apparent hatred in it! I am also aghast that some people actually believe this drivel is real!

Oh believe me - there are some really sad people out there that really do believe it all, they actually seem to live their life through the soaps (my own MIL does for sure ! )

Hmmm, I think that's why I hate them...partly because of the effect they have on some people...doesn't all the aggression depress you so much???:rolleyes: I have a friend who I USED to phone(note the tense there!) who if Corry or EE was on, would say, I'll call you back later...well I'm sorry, but if watching drivel on TV was more important than a (ex!) friend ringing up to see how you are...well, that says it all huh?:rolleyes:

Just to add my bit..... :) If I had to kill my own meat then I dare say I would be veggie, but thats me being a wimp:rolleyes: It so easy to pretend your joint of meat from the supermarket has nothing to do with the lovely cattle/sheepetc you see grazing in fields. An ex lurver of mine would not eat chicken, because it looked like a bird......a joint of meat was no problem thou

Are you telling me im the first peron ever to complian about a program? I didnt see the warnings which is fair play - that my fault.

I do not believe it was appropriate for it to be shown so graphically on telly. I am not a prude - but i will not allow my child to see things like thsi until i feel appropriate. He is 14 months so doesnt understand now but its certainly not something i will show my child.
I would not want to upset my son and feel until at least the age of 6 this would do so.

The majority of posters here are all for it - but so what - it does not make me a bad person.
I hate animal cruelty and i know this isnt but Fox hunting is and thats why its banned.

AND AGAIN i will say i know it has to be done - my step father used to do it.

You saw your step father do the slaughtering - in person - how has that made you as a person ?  Did it affect you for the rest of your life, traumatise you ?  It didn't when I saw my grandfather do it, it didn't traumatise my 8 year old who watched the programme, my children even at the tender age of 3/4/5 years have watched animals killing animals, have witnessed me gutting fish, seen whole lambs hanging in butchers shop windows and it hasn't traumatised them or me.

I think the problem with society as a whole (and this really is my own humble opinion) is that children will grow up softer and unknowing of real life because we as adults feel it is our duty to protect them from real life, I can't believe how many children of the age of 8 and up who don't understand that the lamb they are eating was once in a field, frolicing gaily in the devon hills eating the sweet devon grass (more or less a whole quote from last weeks lamb packet !) however, some won't allow children to see animals being humanely killed but will allow them to watch soaps etc where it is the norm to treat people with utter contempt, back stab, cheat, lie and cause mental and bodily harm and think nothing of it.

Killing animals is the last thing that us as parents need to 'protect' our children from - it's life, as natural as birth - but each to their own. :)

Nope i never saw my Step Dad do it and really wouldnt want to either i think id be sick lol.
I do agree with you about soaps - going to be a soap ban in my house now as i never thought of that

I've found that younger children are much more accepting of anything than slightly older ones of 5, 6 and above - in fact the older they are before reality hits them, the more shocked they seem to be. Did you hear GR's small child asking if they could keep the turkey's feet after they'd been killed? The children were unfazed by the prospect, but GR was quite shocked.

Yes i did c the bit where his son said that

I actually just remembered something about my middle daughter - when she was 3 she couldn't sleep as she had a bit of a cold, so me and OH sat with her on the sofa watchin an animal programme on sky.  It was all about crocodiles (she has always loved them due to Peter Pan and the croc in that that she called 'der' because of his tune LOL)  anyway, there was a lovely scene of a little duck swimming around on the top of a river when a croc came out and snapped him up - well she just sat there clapping her hands and giggling saying "Der ate ducky...Der ate ducky !"  oh well, I suppose that's why she keeps asking me to keep ducks especially for Christmas dinner :D

I can well believe it! Small children aren't remotely squeamish - they're taught to be. :(

Totally agree Roz, the fact is that most meat in this country is 'factory farmed'(ie not free-range/organic)
I am not sure what statistic you get this info from.....apart from pigs/poultry you will find virtually no factory farmed meat in this country!!!!!!   Just because its not "organic" doesnt mean its factory farmed!!! All our stock lives out (just comes in during winter time)...we are definitely not organic but the stock is a sfreeranging as any stock can be......acres to graze & behave in a natural fashion. In the usa its rather different as they tend to have factory units....but in the uk its not the norm ata ll

Sorry, should have made it clearer that I was talking about poultry, in relation to the fact that the animals in the program were turkeys. And I am well aware of the sheep and cattle that are allowed access to grazing throughout most of the year as I have done work experience on farms as part of my BTEC ND, mostly on dairy and beef but also sheep as we are very close to the North Yorks moors, where they are out for the vast majority of the year and only brought in for short periods for the necessary treatments(worming etc) and feet trimming, and the cattle, as you say, are only keep in over the winter.

Maybe our definition of 'factory farming' differs, its a term that is thrown around but what I mean is very large scale production of animals for meat in conditions that IMO are not in the best interests of the animal and the consumer, which sees the animals as merely a means to an end rather than considering their welfare along the way :)

I was not shocked at all, there were sufficient warnings and personally I don't think that the killing of animals for food is something that children should be shielded from.

I am constantly amazed at the incredible lack of knowledge shown by children AND adults about ANY form of food, its source, nurture and killing.

Perhaps if children grew up, as a lot of us did, in the presence of slaughtering, maybe people would be more humane towards animals.

My grandad used to kill rabbits and chickens that were raised in his garden for our dinner whilst we were there and in the 15 years I spend in the Middle East I regularly watched animals raised from birth and slaughtered and so did my daughter; in fact she watched her first lamb slaughter at 18 months old.

This should be viewed as a vital form of education as I know who would survive best if civilisation fell, and it would not be people who have only managed by buy anonymous slabs of meat from a polystyrene tray from the supermarket chiller.

I wonder if those shocked by this scene are as meticulous about shielding their children from gratuitous the violence shown in TV/films and play station games etc, not to mention the deaths seen in the News.....?

I know which I would prefer my child to watch..........

I didnt see it - didnt know it was on, even if I had I wouldnt have watched it.

I am a vegetarian.  I know plently of meat eaters who are ignorant as to where their meat comes from.  I bet most people who eat meat would stop if they had to kill their own, why?  because they wouldnt have the courage to do so.

It is plain cruel.  If people now where their meat comes from and can accpt the pain and suffering animals go through just to put food on their plates and they dont care then fine.

I stopped eating meat when i looked into how these poor animals are treated and the poor life they lead.  If you think they are killed humanely then think again.

I will be having a lovely nut roast on xmas day :-)

If I have kids they will be brought up veggie too. 

>>If people now where their meat comes from and can accpt the pain and suffering animals go through just to put food on their plates and they dont care then fine.

That would be me then :p :p

*SLURP*

Mel :D :D

But that's nothing to the pain and suffering that I'll go through if I put a nut roast on my kids christmas plate :D

Seriously, if we didn't eat meat (which we are designed to eat - we are not vegetarians just look at our teeth and ask a human biology teacher to explain the way our dietry system works as in we cannot break down cellulose in food properly - I could go on...) then we wouldn't breed the animals that we eat - they are not alive because we like fluffy sheeps they are alive because we want and need to eat meat. 

Here's to a glorious meat eating xmas - my brother in law is a veggie and my mother in law was one so I do respect veggies principles and am not out to get at veggies at all I just hate it when they come preaching to me about animal cruelty, why we shouldn't eat meat, we can be healthy living on rabbit food - sorry, i was born an omnivore and i will die an omnivore, as will my children.

Happy christmas to one and all whatever your diet preference :)

Ah but if you are prepared to kill them yourself then you know how they have lived and can do your utmost to ensure a quick and painless end.

I would add that whilst I didnt see the program, many fowl look as if they are alive long after they are dead as their nervous system doesnt always 'switch off' immediately - I have to say that is the bit I hate.

Personally I would also rather eat food that has been produced as locally as possible and unless you eat a lot of chestnuts and cob nuts there are not a lot of ingredients for a nut roast round here ;) 

Last night dispatches programmed about 'What really is in your Christmas dinner' and showed footage of what happened to turkeys in 1995. This was the programme that sent me down the nut roast aisle quicker than you could say turkey dinner :-)
The poor creatures living in appalling conditions and under going a horrendous death. Of course its not just turkeys that suffered it was those poor pigs. Now that sort of animal husbandry is not right.
I am no longer a veggie and accept the fact that to eat animals then they need to be killed, if they live a good life and suffer death as humanly as possible then I will live with it and eat meats that I can be assured of their life before death

Bad animal husbandry is somehting that you dont have to turn vegi to object to! Sadly many people would rather have cheep food than good food.

Who said it was I personally had many reasons to turn veggie, watching the Channel 4 programme 10 years ago was one among a thousand other reasons, I now like food that goes 'cheep' although I don't buy cheap food!!!

My sentiments exactly bluebell ;)

Which is why I only buy locally bred and slaughtered free range, organic meat.

I would rather go vegetarian than eat anything from a supermarkets polystyrene tray, that more times than not doesn't even resemble meat.

Same with my fruit & veg, I really don't relish eating produce that has been shipped half way round the world and then left in cold storage for a year.

If we all cared about what we ate, the conditions it was grown/reared in and shunned the "cheap" meat & veg, then good local produce would be easier to come by and eventually cheaper.

If people were prepared to eat things that were in season it'd be a great help too! Only without wanting to get all sentimental about the Good Old Days, we never ate strawberries in December. In fact they tasted all the sweeter for eating them in the strawberry season. Likewise new potatoes which I remember as being absolutely delicious unlike the bland excuse for new spuds that have been flown halfway round the world.

One of the many reasons I stopped eating meat was because i knew I could not kill an animal myself, and didn't see why I should shelter myself from that harsh reality by buying plastic wrapped meat from the supermarket.

People will continue to eat meat, but my wish is that they would stop asking for cheap stuff and be willing to fork out for animal welfare/local produced food etc.

I have a very good friend who used to keep a smallholding and killed her own sheep - I hate the idea, but totally respected her beliefs that it was better for the animal to be killed by her than be subject to travelling etc. :)

I do eat some fish now, but have to say one of my worst experiences with not eating meat was at a B and B in Yorkshire a few weeks ago - the male owner basically harassed me about my choice and I was so cross i reported them to the Yorkshire Tourist Board as it was pretty upsetting. If they didn't agree with being vegetarian they should not take guests who are, it seems ridiculous in the hospitality industry!. So remember, it's not always meat eaters who get the "flack", in fact IME it's been t'other way round People will always eat meat and we should just respect each others opinions. I can't see any other way.

AS for the programme, I think it's right for people to know what happens - although I doubt all slaughter is that "ideal" - having heard shocking stories about for example, Bernard Matthews .....but speaking personally I'd be surprised to see it before 9pm and wouldn't be particularly looking out for my kids at that time of day  if my personal choice was to not let them see it  :)

It's always been one of my ambitions to have a smallholding and grow our own meat, so we know for certain that it's been raised healthily (mind and body) and slaughtered quickly and humanely in its own home, with no stress.
:)

I had a friend (not seen for a few years) and she is the most accomplished knitter.  In her late 20s she moved to Wiltshire, bought a smallholding, her husband bought her a spinning wheel and they started rearing sheep, goats and variety of fowl.  I don't know how much of the wool if any she actually spun herself but I know that she used to get the locals to slaughter her lambs, butcher them and she'd put them in the freezer.  Lovely area and lovely lifestyle.

Oh dear JG, what would you think of me....I now have a lovely little smallholding...pigstys, stables and a paddock...registered with Defra or Daf as a smallholding for livestock....have thought about a couple of lambs, pigs and a few hens.....but I know they would all end up with names....and once I give them names...all is lost :rolleyes:

Hoever, my stepsister has a lovely smallholding on the Isle of Harris and is thoroughly enjoying her lifestyle....Apparently Christmas Dinner will be Dilbert The Turkey

>but I know they would all end up with names.

Friends of ours called their bull-calf 'Bourgignon', because that was his destiny! The porkers were called 'Bacon' and 'Rasher'! :D :D

:) 

Lindsay
x

Quote "People will continue to eat meat, but my wish is that they would stop asking for cheap stuff and be willing to fork out for animal welfare/local produced food etc. "

Unfortunately we don't live in an ideal world, we live in a world where a lot of people have to watch their spending.  I understand where you are coming from but there are few people who can afford to be choosy as to what meat they purchase, I know of many people over here who, although they and their OH are working full time, don't earn that much money (we are officially one of the lowest paid parts of the UK but one of the most expensive in terms of house prices !  and I feel sorry for those having to work over here, bring up a family, save for a house or even pay for a mortgage ) and they can't afford to pay that bit extra for animal welfare/local produced food.  Should this mean then that they should stop eating meat and become a vegetarian ?  This is the same the UK over, not everyone lives near a farm that produces local produce, not everyone can afford to pay the extra (albeit a few extra pence) for organic, free range produce.

Unfortunately in the world we live in there will always be those that inadvertantly support poorly produced goods so those producers will continue with their ways, and the few of us who can afford local / animal welfare food or who have become vegetarian due to the way that liestock are kept and slaughtered are not enough to support a drastic change.

Farmers are encouraged by their contracts with the supermarkets to produce / slaughter meat in the most cost effective way - in fact they have to to get some sort of profit for their work so as to live themselves !

One day in the future I will have a small holding and I will produce our own food and I will learn as much as I can about slaughtering - I love animals but I would not be ashamed to say that I could and would kill one for food.

Of course we don't live in an ideal world, I think that goes without saying :)
I think most people these days have to watch their spending, I know I do.

At the end of the day it's all down to personal choice.

Lindsay
x

I restrict my buying to free range meats or even game but only eat it once or twice a week, if that, consequently my food bills are much lower that my friend's who eats factory farmed stuff at least once a day.  I believe we are a lot healthier for eating very little meat too :)

Hmmm... I have looked into the cost implications and if you are like us and eat meat every day with 3 roasts per week then buying free range / locally produced foods do add up.  I'm afraid eating any less meat is not an option for us as we love meat with a passion, it's not all beef , pork and lamb we eat a lot of chicken too and it's all carefully selected with no or virtually no fat.  Personally it's not a problem as we don't drink, go out etc as we would much rather put our money towards healthy eating for oursleves and our children but for some who do drink, smoke, entertain etc then added costs for their food is not something they will even think of.  I think it's crazy myself that people will spend £20 + in a pub with their friends and then feed their kids processed food, cheap cuts of meat, full sugar drinks etc because 'they can't afford to eat healthy'.

I suppose it is a matter of whether these things concern you.  If it did you just would either pay the money to buy the meat that seems most ethical to you or go without.  Buying lean meat does not benefit the animals welfarewise and in fact I often buy the cheaper cuts that have the less fashionable fat marbled through for the flavour.  It cooks off anyway so if you limit the amount of sauce or gravy made from the juices it is perfectly healthy particularly when meat is eaten in moderate proportions.  Chicken of the non free range variety has to be the cruelest of them all and if you ever considered reducing the amount you bought of anything that would be, perhaps, the one to choose.  I have noticed that there are a lot more reasonably priced free range chickens around now perhaps because the greater demand and competition.  I often get a medium whole chicken for around a fiver which does us a generous two meals plus plenty to make a wholesome enough soup to do another lunch.

I buy considerately for the animals welfare where possible - it's other people in the world that I was getting at, not myself :) 

And fat free is the only option for us as I'm afraid the thought of eating meat with fat running through it makes me ill (I can also only eat low fat dairy products) and as I said my OH is a body builder so eating fat is not an option for him either (it's not a fashionable thing with us but a healthy eating lifestyle that has been our way of life for many a year) and I certainly wouldn't want to let my children eat fatty products :)  I didn't say that I bought lean meat so therefore that is better for the welfare of the animal I just emphasised the kind of meats we buy and the amount we eat.  Chicken is on a whole locally produced, virtually fat free as is our personal healthy eating preference.  We also eat plenty of vegetables as a compliment to our daily meals and I cook everyday from scratch.  There are five of us so a medium chicken for a fiver would probably just about do ONE meal :)

Edited (again) to add : I take it that we will all be watching GR tonight :D

As I say fat is rendered away during the cooking and frankly I would be more worried about all the cholesterol inbibed in meat every day and 3 roasts a week.  However :) Your eating preferences may be interesting but, not wishing to be rude, I thought this thread was about the ethical treatment of animals.  Sometimes doing the right thing does cost more money I think a fiver for a meal for 5 is not bad at all in that context.  When I was a young thing food was a very large proportion of my budget these day apart from the very hard up it is nothing like the same cut into the average income so I think most of us have room to manoever towards a kinder way of doing things.

Not to be rude too but this whole part of this thread has been brought about by another poster commenting on people buying locally produced food - I simply mentioned that not everyone could afford it.  It has then got out of hand by comments being made about cutting the amount of meat people eat - I just simply replied to this post (which was answered to my post so therefore directed at me) stating that there is no reason for us to cut down on our meat intake, we buy sensibly and considerately and as for all the cholesterol involved with eating meat every day !  Eating meat with marbled fat through it twice a week is in my opinion far worse - but that's my opinion. :)

I've also not said that I can't afford to be considerate when purchasing food, I am considerate - but that OTHERS cannot or aren't.

Yes this post is about slaughtering and as usual has gone way off topic - but then, I've already said my piece on that and I have now just simply answered a few posts especially the ones that have responded to mine :) 

Again :) the fat is not there after you have cooked it.  Actually battery chicken has a higher fat to protein ratio than beefburgers according to another recent program on the subject.  I don't think this is off topic at all, I consider we are exploring the ways that people can eat well and still be able to afford to be ethical but appologies I'm obviously read your thread wrong :) I thought you said you couldn't buy free range because of the cost.  I still maintain that anyone can do their bit as there are many forms of protein cheaper than factory meat even. 

factory meat stinks IMO :D  I used to keep chickens (until my neighbours complained about being woken up at 5.30 in the morning with the 'laying' song LOL) and I will always buy free range / local produce - if it's not in the shop then I'll buy something else (and not those disgusting made from who knows what beefburgers - yuk!)

Anyway, the fat is still in the roasting dish or soaked up by the spuds if you cook them in with the meat :D