Im sorry to say i just watched Gordon Ramsey's F word and was really shocked I knew his birds were going to be killed for xmas dinner but i have to say im appauled.
Its just been on - i didnt expect them to show it happening!I cant remember how many there were - but they showed 3.
The first 2 were really bad enough it was upsetting - they showed them being done from a distance.
But the last was appauling - it actually showed a near head shot and you saw it go. It is 6pm and im sure some kids will have seen. Luckily my child isnt old enough to watch or understand.
What do you think to this?:-(
And i just wanna say im not advere to this being done - it has to be, i just dont think its appropriate at this time, saying that anytime.

It really should be on later than that thats not something people are going to want their kids to be seeing !!

Its probably best that we don't look at things like that and continue to believe that our Christmas turkey will turn up on the table by magic having not gone through the trauma of death!

Was a warning issued before the programme started or in the ad break. You know the type...'this programme contains scenes that some viewers may find disturbing?' If not, there probably should have been given the time of day that it's being broadcast at.

Personally, I didn't see it but it probably wouldn't have bothered me if I had. If it did bother me, I'd have chosen not to continue watching and changed channel.....

Oh yes, there was plenty of warning given both before and after the advert break.

Yes there was plenty of warnings before and during the program.  Must add though that I was brought up seeing my grandfather kill chickens and rabbits that he kept in his backyard with his own hands for our dinner and although a little wierd to see it hasn't scarred me for life, and my eight year old boy watched the turkeys being humanaly killed on the tele with no affect at all - IMPAHO I think it's a part of life that should be understood - too many children today believe that meat and eggs come from the supermarket :rolleyes: they don't understand that the turkey they are eating christmas day is the same one they saw running round the farm last week, I can't see anything wrong with it, it's life.  Now I shall run and duck for cover   :)

I saw it during the week, when they killed first one I had to turn over, don't think they should have shown it on the TV.

Did you see when he told his children they were going to be killed, the little boy said can we watch.

>the little boy said can we watch.

I was quite surprised that GR said no.

I agree to some degree but I do think it is important that children know where our food comes from rather than believing it comes wrapped from a supermarket :)

I watched a pig killed then butchered at my god parents farm when I was 6 and didn't find it at all disturbing :) I was actually fasinated and marvelled about what a craft it was to joint up a whole pig :)

Do you let your children watch wild life programs where say a lion kills an antelope ? It is just the same principle apart from it is a human doing the killing for food ;)

We thought it was very well done. They made the point beforehand that it's far kinder to the animals (and birds) to be slaughtered on their own territory rather than being transported hundereds of miles. I'm all for people - yes, even children - being made aware of the reality of death, and how animals should be slaughtered; ie, quickly. I'm all for children knowing from the outset that animals have to be killed for us to eat meat. I'd object strongly to televised cruelty and sadism, but not humane slaughter. After all, Animal Hospital showed a dog being put to sleep - what's the difference?

We saw a programme about 8/9 years ago slaughtering the Turkeys and it made us vegetarians. Although the programme was well thought out we think watching 1 turkey meeting it's demise would have been enough not watching them all, especially the last one ughh!! sends a shiver down my spine

I agree LJS, as kids i can recall from earliest memories, the geese being killed and plucked for xmas, not to mention there was always a hen or something that  needed dispatching for some reason or other. As kids it was just part of life & we accepted it.....its still normal now. my parents were very strict & forbid me to eat chewing gum or visit a funfair!!!!!!  Seeing something being killed humanely didnt register as something children shouldnt see.... & still doesnt i AM GLAD TO SAY

I can remember as a child going to the farm as the Turkey preperartion was in full flow :)

I then went out with my Dad out on the Christmas Eve Turkey delivery run :D It was such fun and an integral part of my childhood Christmas memories

What harm does it do letting children know how we get our meat ? I would rather tell the truth than give them a pink fluffy version :)

Agree.  I was breeding and killing and eating my own Rabbits at 18.  My younger siblings were aware of where the meat on the dinner table came from.

When I visited Poland in the 70's everyone kept poultry Rabbits and often Pigs on their allotments and they were killed and jointed.

Mike my OH also had rabbit when he went to his Grandparents and knew excatly where they came from :D

I also think its a good idea for kids to know where their food starts out.They also need to know about death and accept it.

By actually seeing this it does help to make a more informed decision about choice.

We all have off buttons on our TV's and they don't cost anything to use if you are really that offended.

Children, like us all are actually quite fascinated by death and this is a good way to explore that.

We're far too quick to worry about what are often imagined delicate sensibilities of children, IMHO! I can still remember my youngest son going into the local butcher's shop the week before Christmas when they have rabbits and game hanging on hooks. The butcher was trying to persuade Pete that the rabbits were "only sleeping" but he wasn't having any of it and cheerfully said "Course they isn't sleeping, they is all dead and ready for eating up" - he was three at the time and hasn't needed post-traumatic counselling since.

I was brought up in the country where the relationship between what is on the table and what is wandering about in the fields or pecking away in the yard is usually more directly observed.  My grandfather kept chickens and taught me how to wring necks and we were all taught how to skin rabbits, pluck pheasants and, most importantly, that meat and poultry had once been alive and weren't magicked up into neat packages in the shops!  And I know it's a bit of a bugbear of mine but I'm sure that if the simple facts about food production were made clearer to children there'd probably be less junk food eaten.

Tonight there were very clear warnings before the humane killing of the turkeys in question and people had plenty of time to decide whether or not to watch that part of the programme.

And while I respect that some people may not wish to see any scenes of "turkeycide" on telly I'd much prefer to see a humane method of despatch shown!

he was three at the time and hasn't needed post-traumatic counselling since.

:D :D

while I respect that some people may not wish to see any scenes of "turkeycide" on telly I'd much prefer to see a humane method of despatch shown!

:D :D

I agree with the majority of posters - in this pre-packaged, sanitised, supermarket world, it is important that children appreciate just where their food comes from!

Too many children are brought up not even thinking about the fact that all healthy food has been a live product - be it a lettuce or a lamb - and it is important that they learn this.

I know of a girl who refused to eat eggs once she learned that hens laid eggs - you mean they come from a hen's backside ???:rolleyes:

Margot

I agree with the majority ..ALL my children are well aware that meat comes from once living creatures and NOT just the supermarket

As the others have said...there were warnings AND there is an off button on the TV ;)

I watched the programme and found it very interesting.  Most of us do not know how animals are slaughtered and when I find broken bones in a chicken I have just cooked it does make me wonder if it has suffered any cruelty beforehand.  I actually appreciated seeing the turkeys killed because you could see how immediate death was.  Unfortunately most of the turkeys on our plates this year will not have had the benefit of carried individually to the wagon so not to see the others being slaughtered. Also they didn't have to be crammed into crates and lorries which has to be the worst part for any animal before slaughter.

That eeminded me of my neighbours.  their grown up daughter bought some ex battery hens and they laid pretty well.

She gave the eggs to my neighbour and swapped them for some supermarket ones,a s she didn't like theidea of knowing they had come out of ehr chickens bums!!! :rolleyes:

Where the hel did she think the other eggs came from!

At least her own hens were happy and unstressed.

She gave the eggs to my neighbour and swapped them for some supermarket ones,a s she didn't like the idea of knowing they had come out of her chickens bums!!!

Excatly the stupid unimformed attitude of some ignorant people :rolleyes:

So where did her daughter come from ? After she was washed off  after she popped out off her nether regions then she was ok with her then ?

I must admit I didn't enjoy watching the Turkeys being killed, but then I don't enjoy watching any animals being killed on TV.  I didn't see the warning so was pretty shocked to see it    The last one, as someone above said, was the most disturbing, it actually showed you it's face and it's eyes turning white, (or that's how it looked anyway!) it was horrible.

My hubby says the same as all you, that he wants our children to know where meat comes from, and I can understand and agree with that, but it was very sad to watch.  I do eat meat, but don't like acknowledging that it has to be killed in order for me to eat it :D 

I also hate it when programs like River Cottage (which I mostly enjoy watching) shows Hugh shooting for food and making a sport out of it, laughin and joking about the poor animal he's about to kill and cut up - I just don't like seeing someone making jokes about the death of anything :(

What's wrong with shooting animals for food? And what's wrong with enjoying what you're doing? If you're weeping while you do it you're more likely to make a hash of it. Death is a fact of life - we can laugh about every other aspect of it, so why make the end any different? Death is the one thing that's guaranteed to happen to everything on earth - pretending otherwise is foolish IMO.

Im not trying to cause an argument, JG here but i just want to point out Fox hunting - its been banned and its classed as a sport

I'm not sure of your point, because foxes are now meant to be shot, so shooting is obviously considered to be a humane end - after all, that's how many thousands of animals were slaughtered during the FMD crisis.

GR's turkeys had a much quicker, more humane death than say, a wildebeest calf in Africa, being suffocated (as that's how they kill) by a lioness. I assume people who objected to this programme never allow children to watch wildlife and nature programmes? David Attenborough's latest one has all sorts of insects being eaten alive - surely that's 'cruel'? ;)

So does I'm a Celebrity and no-one ever complains about the grubs and insects on there being eaten alive!

Good point! And millions tune in to watch that.

The sport in shooting is knowing enough about your quarry to get in the best place to make a clean kill. Everyone I know that shoots hates to think that an animal will be wounded rather than a clean kill. However it happens and it is no good to the animal to go all squeemish and be unable to dispatch it.

I agree with most of the posts that it is part of the resopnsibility of eating meat to be prepared to kill it and understand where it came from and that it had a good life.

IMHO a lot of the problems that we have with junk food in this country are because the link between farmed animals and the food on your plate has been broken in this country.   

If its appauling and shocking to see an animal die for you to eat it, DONT EAT IT!

I actually didnt see it, but ive seen animals slaughtered, both on the telly and in person, its not what id call 'pleasant' but i dont find the concept appauling, although i do find some of the practices to be so.

Shame that the consumers desire for cheap, low priced meat and their 'head in the sand, isnt it horrible' attitude has meant that animals due for slaughter no longer get slaughtered a few miles from home, but have to spend hours and hours packed into a truck before being slaughtered!

>If its appauling and shocking to see an animal die for you to eat it, DONT EAT IT!

Bit of an over-reaction isn't it?

I don't think it's 'burying your head in the sand' to admit you don't like seeing animals being killed, I think it's quite a nice nature to have IMO.    I don't like watching things being killed, is that so wrong?! 

Quote : And i just wanna say im not advere to this being done - it has to be, i just dont think its appropriate at this time, saying that anytime.

I said that. I know it has to be done. My argument is kids IMO shouldnt be able to see these things. It was on at 6, i didnt hear any warnings but admittidly i was out the room.
I just think the ime was inappropriate - my step father used to work in an abatooir (not sure how to spell it sorry) so i know exactly how these things and the not so human ways - throat slitting etc :-(

I dont have my head in the sand - i just think the time - 6pm was not on.

Id love to know how many complaints C4 have/will get.

>Id love to know how many complaints C4 have/will get

If warnings were issued, then I don't think anyone has grounds for complaint. Channel 4 did not force anyone to watch it.

Im sure i wasnt the only person to have missed the warnings - i was out the room

But can you really complain about a programme that clearly gave out warnings just because you happened to be out of the room when the warning was given out

Especially when all the advice is not to allow children to watch TV (other than programmes specially for children) without an adult present. So no children should have been watching without an adult there to take responsibility.

But if it was so shocking why didn't you switch it off after seeing the first one? You stayed to watch all three

Quote; I didn't see the warning so was pretty shocked to see it    The last one, as someone above said, was the most disturbing, it actually showed you it's face and it's eyes turning white, (or that's how it looked anyway!) it was horrible.

Another person who missed the warnings.

So what are you having for Christmas dinner now?   I'm not trying to be clever/funny - just wondering if the programme has made you change what you would normally do?

Margot

Luckily i dont like turkey so i have beef! As i said my step father used to slaughter pigs so i know what really happens.
Its a fair comment :-) you made and i dont think you were being clever/funny

I didn't see the programme but wouldn't have found it shocking, far more shocking to see how supermarket turkeys/chickens etc live and then get transported to the slaughterhouse, and what happens next :(   I much prefer wild-shot meat when I can get it, the animal at least has had the opportunity of a normal life and diet ;)  whenever we've eaten venison, pheasant etc my children have both been aware of the different ways the animals have lived to farm animals and the fact that they haven't been stressed by farm conditions and transport.  They are both fully aware of where their food comes from and how it's produced and both prefer 'proper' food to junk food :)

*fell in wrong place

I'm very ferocious about factory farming/junk food and the practices that supermarkets use to squeeze small producers out of business and so given the choice, I'd only eat meat and poultry that I've actually been introduced to first. So it's sheer heaven when I go back home to Ireland where my mother has land and animals and wouldn't dream of letting anyone tuck into a tasty chicken without paying homage to the bird in question. This homage usually goes along the lines of "Henrietta, she was a delightful chook in life and I'm sure she'll be just as tasty in this pie" and anyone squeamish about the reality of where food comes from would go very hungry.

I'd respectfully ask anyone horrified by tonight's programme to consider whether their Christmas turkey (or indeed beef or whatever living creature died in order to reappear on their plate!!) is likely to have had as humane an ending as Gordon Ramsay's birds. 

I think the thing that strikes me most about programmes such as the F word, River Cottage and the one with Jamie Oliver's mate who runs the pig farm is how much these people care for the animals that they raise for food.  All three people treat the animals with the utmost respect and care for their welfare more than many care for their so called pets.  The animals are being grown for food and we shouldn't be squeamish or hide the facts from children as to what happens. Gordon Ramsey's children were so matter of fact about what was going to happen to the turkeys and yet they cared for them lovingly to the day they were going to be slaughtered.  Killing animals for food is a fact of life and I actually wish we were informed more not less about the way animals that we eat are killed because then we might have quite a lot to complain about and change.

The warnings were clear and even if you missed them it was obvious what was going to happen.  I don't know why someone saw it at 6 because it didn't actually show the slaughter until after 8.30.  IMO there are far worse things for children to see in soaps earlier in the evenings.

:rolleyes:it was repeated today at 6

That does surprise me because even though I didn't have a problem with it, I did say to my OH, oh dear this will prompt lots of complaints. Can't have been that many if they repeated it at 6, maybe they'll have more this time.

i think so as it was rather early.suppose well never know if/how many complaints it got.
And you were right - they do treat the animals as pets/respect them :-)

>>I'd respectfully ask anyone horrified by tonight's programme to consider whether their Christmas turkey (or indeed beef or whatever living creature died in order to reappear on their plate!!) is likely to have had as humane an ending as Gordon Ramsay's birds.

Totally agree Roz, the fact is that most meat in this country is 'factory farmed'(ie not free-range/organic) and slaughtered some distance from where it was raised(think back to FMD when pigs were being transported from one end of the country to the other for slaughter) and not in the most humane way. I am a vegetarian and have been for the past 11 years because of the way most animals are reared. I thought plenty of warning was given on the program, missed it on Thursday but my mam told me about it and I did want to see how they did it, as some poultry slaughter methods I have seen were, IMO, not very humane.  But I must say, I thought it was done very humanely, very quick and efficient.

People should grasp that in order to eat meat, an animal has had to be killed and that should be done in the quickest most humane way in order to cause the least stress to the animal.

It doesn't make me want to eat it though, but knowing those birds had a very good quality of life and the end was quick can only be a good thing.