What do you think is harder to get?  A J.W or a ShCM

JW as you have to have 3 in your class and don't get anything for group places etc.  There is also a time limit.  ShCM has no time limit, no class size limits etc etc etc

Depends on the breed :) In the HVs there seems to be a fair few young dogs who get their JWs, they always have lots of puppies and juniors at open and champ shows so that must increase the number that are in with a chance of getting it. But in the wires we don't have many puppies out and those who are out do more champ shows than opens and are spread across the country more so the chances of meeting another wire puppy at an open show is not very high, so to get 3 or more in a class is asking for alot!

ShCM should be hard to get, in that you have to get to, and win at, group level which at some open shows isn't easy when there are 10+ dogs competing for 4 places! But it should be a reasonable target for people, as the point of it was encourage more people to show at open level. I think there are less than 10 HVs with it(one of mine is half way there!) and no wires as yet but there are a few of us who like doing the open shows so its only a matter of time :D

But of course the ShCM doesn't have a time limit, so less pressure in a way but I still regard it as a big achievement, especially in gundogs as we often have a full compliment of breeds at open shows so it makes for good competition! People sometimes try and lessen it by saying if you go to enough shows then you can get your JW or ShCM but for both you have to win against other dogs(unless of course you get all your BOBs stood alone and G4s out of only 4 present!) so its not just a case of going to every show possible.

JMHO :)

I think ShCM because it goes on your adult placings.  My bitch did very well getting her ShCM the day before her JW at 14 months (I think this is very good for a ShCM) and that included a BIS win at 12 months.  I suppose it all depends on the breed and how many are at the open shows.  Maybe they should put a time limit on the ShCM?

My young poodle got her ShCM at her first three shows after she came out of puppy 3 BOB, 3 Groups and 3BIS, which I have to say was much easier than I thought but has never managed to get her junior warrant though to be fair I didnt go to many Ch shows and we dont always have a breed class at open shows. 

It depends on the breed and entries of that breed. In my breed in england where there are a lot shown they tend to get the JW quicker, up in Scotland entries are a bit lower but if you dog can get BOB then the SHCM works.

If you have a numerically small breed and don't do loads of shows then they are both hard to get.

My Champion bitch won most of her classes from 10 months old and was a champion under two, yet never got her Junior Warrant because you needed 10 points own at open shows, and there simply weren't enough dogs at these, even though she won the number of classes.

She is a Champion 3 times over and a group placer and champ stakes winner, yet only about half way to her ShCM.

Her daughter won most of her classes from her first shows, but never got any points until Junior and was lucky to get her JW, but only thanks to the fact I started entering her in Junior as well as puppy and then Post Graduate as soon as she was 12 months too, and that was with winning the majority of her classes at Championship shows.

My Flatcoat has just got his ShCM at 9 years old.  He ended up with about 40 Best of Breed points, but was just waiting on 2 group points. It is hard with an older dog, so many of the group placings go to the flashy 18mth-2yr old setters, pointer & cockers in our area.
I am very proud of my old lad!! :)

In my breed we gat about ahlf as many JW or ShCM winners as champions made up adn we only get 2 to 4 champions made up a year normally.

Definitely the JW, specially if you are a newcomer who didn't hear of the award until you'd wasted your dog's puppy months! We got 22 points, 21 of which were between 12 and 18 months, and I will be sad for the rest of my life that I didn't know about it and enter Henry in more shows as a puppy to get those last 3 points. :-( And I STILL think that the BOB challenge should count as a class if there are more than 3 dogs in it, and you should get 1 point for BOB at an open show, and 3 points for BD or BB at a champ show - then we'd have it with points to spare!

But we do have his ShCM! :-)