I have to admit that for many years I have thought that gay couples should NOT be allowed to adopt.  BUT, when you consider that there are many families out there with a parent of each sex, but where there is really only input from the Mother (or Father).  Having parents of different sexes does not guarantee that you get a POSITIVE male (or indeed female) input. So I think that it is better for a child to have two loving parents of any sex, than to remain in temporary care.

I do not agree that what a father is like with his children is dependent on whether he had a male around as a child either.  I know men who are rubbish dads (do very little with their kids), but who had fathers around.  Others who are brilliant with their kids, had no father around.  It depends on the person themselves - some people want to be involved and others don't.

Another point about children needing a parent of the same gender for support about sexual matters I don't necessarily agree with.  I have 3 boys and they all freely question me about such matters.  Maybe this will change as they get older.

Good luck anyway.

A thought has just occured to me...........  How does a female child get a parenting role model with two male parents (and the opposite ofcourse, male child with two female parents)?

I would hope and imagine that children are not brought up in a vaccuum with only role models being their parents.  There should be Aunts, Uncles, Granparents freinds o9f both sexes that appropriate role models can be gained

Ideally, yes, but many families are far-flung nowadays. Our nearest relatives are a two-hour drive away - not easy to pop in for an informal chat. :(

>I have 3 boys and they all freely question me about such matters.

Likewise. However, my daughter would not be comfortable talking to her dad about periods, puberty etc etc - she comes to me to talk about such things.

i dont have a problem with it.Infact it will hopefully help with the "anti-gay" feeling in the uk,that still exists with some people.
(although why you want kids is very odd to me,....whats wrong with dogs????? ;) )

I would imagine the gay couple would be asked if there is anyone in there lives that would act as a female role for a child.

As far as parenting role models are concerned what would you expect differently between male and females parents? I would think that being raised in a family environment with love, structured home life, discipline etc would be what you expect from a parent regardless of their sex.  I know a woman of 20 yrs and her older brother who was brought up by her father because her mother died when she was five.  She had plenty of interaction with women such as extended family members and school teachers but her father was the main carer.  There is no difference really between her upbringing and a child brought up by 2 men, except 2 men could halve the workload and double the attention given.

Yes but there are always Aunts and Uncles that children can talk to :)

I for one have talked to my Uncle and Aunts on matters where I couldn't or didn't want to speak to my parents :)

It is good as Flo is comfortable talking about anything to myself or Mike but not to her Dad about some subjects :)

Aunties and Uncles?  Not in my family, and both my (adoptive) parents were only children too...

Sorry I meant the term Auntys and Uncles as friends of the family as well :)

I had some very nice friends of my our family I was able to talk to about many things :)

All I am trying to say really is it is not just a parent that can give guidance and support to children. In fact I would encourage talking to people outside of the family sometimes as it can often help to have advice from somebody not directly involved in certain matters :)

IMO it's a valid point and something that I would expect the agencies to consider when assessing prospective parents.  Although I think that same sex parents is not a bad thing I do think that children should be properly socialised with female family members

I dont think it should matter: gay, straight, single, threesome etc.  Aslong as you can offer a caring, stable and loving home then sexuality should not come into it.  Sadly we live in a world in which we are all discriminated against for something or another, me because I am single and have no plans of settling down either (obviously this makes me a weirdo...LOL)

Good Luck!!! 

Hi guiness,
Write a book, let your thoughts be known and why.
You don't know, your opionion could change the future for other
children in care, most Social Workers that make the decisions,
come for "norm" upper middle class familys. They have No idea what
children in childrens home go through.
Regards
Denese

True denese

Although I think Social Workers have too many children to look after to give them quality time to express themselves - although it is so obvious to the rest of us, someone up there makes the decisions and thats that!!!

Hi Sarahlolly,

I do agree.

Denese

Hi there!!

I work in a Children's home and work with children who want someone, anyone who will love them.  It is particularly hard at Christmas where these little ones know that they have no-one to spend Christmas with.

I am in favour of anyone that can give a child unconditional love and affection forever.  Believe me, at the end of the day this is all they need.......

I work in a mainstream school where it is 80% special needs, whether it be emotional, learning or physical. I would have to say about half of those children have those problems because of their parents. Not necessarily caused deliberately, just through a lack of parenting skills. (And a bit of inbreeding thrown in! ) Some come into school filthy dirty, hungry, over tired, distressed about home circumstances (violence, abuse, etc), they are up until midnight watching violent films, playing on playstations or can describe watching something that sounds scarily like p*rnographic movies. I have seen time and again a child taken into care, their personalities change and watched them them turn into happy children, only for them to be given back to their parents and revert to their sad selves.

I would be delighted to see these children adopted into caring, loving, responsible homes, whether they be gay or straight it wouldn't matter. One child said to me today, 'I wish I could live with you', I said he wouldn't like it, not with my dogs. Teary eyed he looked at me with a look of desperation no child of 5 should have and replied, 'it wouldn't matter, it really wouldn't matter'. I can only imagine what a loving home like the OPs would do for him and I wish them all the luck in the world. :) Please don't give up, one day someone will allow you to adopt a child, there are so many children in desperate need of a home like yours. In the mean time would social services not be interested in an offer of foster care or respite?

It's not easy to argue against the view that all children need a secure, stable, happy environment in which to develop and flourish. But I have to admit that I have serious reservations about same sex parenting. It's probably still too early to assess how the children will be affected emotionally over the long term but I've often wondered how some of the practical issues could be overcome.
For example, how would a gay man take a little girl under the age of, say, 5 or 6, to the toilet when out for the day in a shopping centre or a restaurant ?  Would it be acceptable for males to enter the ladies toilets ? Or would the child be entrusted to a passing female to help her out ? 
I feel this is just one of the many situations where a little girl would really want and need a mummy.

My husband wasn't let off the hook so easily as that Tyby.  There were occasions when he had to take a daughter to the toilet and in that situation he would take her into the men's and straight into a cubicle.

edited to say that these days many places have child and parent rooms

Thats such a silly question to ask.My OH has taken our daughter to a public toilet and yes,he does take her into the mens toilet and straight into a cubical.Same if he takes the children swimming,he takes our daughter into a cubical with him.I dont see as thats a problem.I know a few kids that would just love a happy life witha straight or gay couple.We have a gay couple in our village,two ladies raising 8 kids between them.The kids are fine,healthy and happy.They take a bit of friendly banter from the other kids from time to time but nothing nasty.We have two dissabled kids and they take stick some times from other kids.Where ever you go kids will rip at other kids,it could be because they are too fat,wear glasses,wear untrendy clothes,even the fact that their mum is fat.I have heard more kids picked at for the reason that their mum/dad is fat than any other jibe.So you just go for it and bring a little sunshine into the life of some poor unhappy,unloved child. :)

I'm so sorry for asking such a silly question, guiness, but, personally I don't think it's ideal to take a young girl into a mens public toilet.  That's my view and I trust you will respect it.

It's probably a generation and cultural point of view tyby and yes you are entitled to your point of view. These days though it's generally unnecessary to take children into either sex toilets in this country because public facilities usually have parent and child rooms.  If you lived in France this issue wouldn't even be raised because they have unisex toilets.  If the need arose that you needed to take a little girl into a men's toilet, personally I haven't got a problem with that and I would think you would find that the child wouldn't bat an eyelid unless someone raises the point that it is 'wrong', which of course it's not.

By the way what are mum's to do with young sons.  Isn't it the same thing?

I am a single parent of children of each sex, and my Dad was a single parent too.  there are pletny of men bringing up daughters alone and vie versa, we just make do.

I took my son into the ladies I no real issues as after al ladies all use private cubicles), as for smelly mens toilets the urinals are an issue, but the men wil have their backs turned so not a real problem for a da and a littel girl, unless there is a queue for the cubicles, which there rarely is.

Have used the gents on more than one occasion when desperate and the ladies out of order or just too long a queue.

Most little girls will be quite used to seeing their father's wee anyway :) If a big fuss isn't made of it, they would think nothing of going into the men's loo (particularly as we are talking of small children here - not older children, who would be quite capable of goinginto their own loos) :)

Daisy

I remember going into the mens toilets with my Dad although I don't think it's harmed me.  My brother also went in to girls loos with my mum.  I would hate to think of a little girl going round the shopping centre with her Dad say this time of year to get mum's christmas prezzies, how would the child get to the loo then?  Still in hetrosexual parents.  As most shopping is done on saturdays this is the day my dad would take me and my brother out as my mum had a saturday job so she could still work but look after us during the week.  I could either go in the mens loo's or wait till I got home but at that age my bladder wasn't strong...

OK, I'll own up and admit that the toilet thing was a bit of a side issue.  The truth is I don't agree with gay and lesbian couples adopting children.  As someone said previously, having children should not be considered as an automatic right.

But shouldn't children have the right to have parents and not be in a carehome all their life?

Most children in care homes do have parents, it's just that, for one reason or another they don't live with them.
As has already been said, we don't live in an ideal world, unfortunately.

No, we are not talking about children in homes temporarily we are talking about children whose parents, perhaps through no fault of their own, have given the children up for adoption.  So, no, these children haven't got parents in the practical sense of the word

Some kids do get picked for adoption,if they are babies or toddlers or if they are pretty looking.When you get the kids that can be a bit awkward or wear glasses or have medical issues,emotional or physical dissabilities,then you get the problem trying to find them a home where they will be loved.Its not an ideal world and most dont spend the time to get to know the spotty lil kid with braces,glasses and ginger hair.I am a emergency foster carer for teenage boys,which no one seems to want.I get the young lads with the emotional problems,parents who have mentally,physically and even sexually abused the poor lads.A teenage life is hard enough without the stress some kids get and even harder without the support needed to live a happy healthy life.Give these people a chance i say.

So, you have children in homes who are at greater risk of mental health issues and suicide (don't know if that's changed recently) but you would rather they stayed there than go to people who would love and care for them.  You would rather they stayed in homes than go to a loving home even if the children themselves desperately want a home of their own, which as far as I understand it most, if not all, of them do?

Remember many children in homes have psychological problems and/or disabilities and need greater care than most children who are born and raised by their natural parents, but you think that they should stay in the homes rather than go to gay couples?  Why, why? why?

I think the original poster asked for people's views both for and against and I have said I'm against it. 

Just wanted to understand why that's all. Until we understand why people have the views they have we can't move forward can we? I think the original poster asked for views as well so that they can understand why people are against gays adopting children

Well lets look at it from another point of view.When i was younger i was too given up and spent many months in a care home before i was put in temporary foster care,for life.Most people dont want to adopt older kids so the kid stays wandering about from place to place untill they come of age and have to find their own way in life.Which,may i add,when i came of age to leave care i was thrown out of foster care and left to fend for myself.I had no parents or relatives so i was baisically homeless.What i would of given for any couple to adopt me,gay or straight,love is unconditional.So i think,before anyone can possibly comment,look at it from a childs point of view and trust in some one who has been there.I support you all the way in your adoption and wish you all the luck in the world.x x x x x x :)

guiness,

HERE HERE!!!!!!!

Denese

Hi toby,
"reservation" That is also the views of some Social Workers.
It is the un-known! if you spoke to a stable gay couple who have
made a commitment to one another, and they answered your questions honestly,
you would be suprised! I think you would find that they have more to offer than
some hetersexual couples. As they have lived through all the bullying, prejudice ect; ect;
Some things that a concasion hetersexal couple would not be aware of.

Regards
Denese

I lived too many christmas times in a childrens home and when all you get is a pair of socks when you are 12 years old its a bit sad. :(

I think we ought to respect tyby's view as the OP was asking for this :)

Guiness what a horrible time and I can't even start to imagine what it was like :( So nice though reading your posts what a loving and happy big family you have now which I am sure makes up in some way (not sure how much ? :) ) on what a difficult time you had ;)

Lucy
xx

I never look at things as being truely horrible but more as a learning curve.At the end of the day some one has to do it. :) You can always turn a bad experience around and use it to help others so thats what i do in my work with teenage boys.I had a large family on purpose and didnt really know how many kids i wanted,i just said i would stop when i felt the time was right.Best way to be i think.I make life fun for my kids and try and give them as much support as i can.Its great that i can see both sides of life and i feel it a privelage to have lived the way i did. :)

We are really spoiling our kids this year (although I was told I couldn't buy a present for them personally as this was against regs - idiots!!!!)

Nothing can make up for them not spending christmas with family but we'll do the best we can.

I can't see a problem with a gay couple adopting. After all, they will be carefully vetted by professionals and will be assessed with the child to ascertain if they are likely to be a good 'match'.

I know several gay people who would/will make fabulous parents (much better than I would and I, in theory, can have kids without anyone's say-so). I would hate to think they would be denied the opportunity to be parents simply because of their sexuality and, more to the point, that a child would be denied the opportunity of a stable and loving home simply because the couple are of the same gender.

I don't believe that people make a choice to be gay, they just are (same as I haven't chosen to be heterosexual, I just know I am, if you see what I mean) so I don't think they should be discriminated against in this (or any other) way. 

Id like to thank everyone for there time and comments it has helpped to see other peoples views and understand why people think its right and why others think its wrong.

One point which has came up what I cant begin to understand, is that some people think that gay people think its a right to have children!

Isnt it the same for straight people.  Some people what kids but cant have them for other reasons.  I could easy find someone to have a baby as a suragate no problem.  I dont wish to go down this road, they are far to may children out there who are in stuations that is not there fault and only want a loving stable environment.  I personally dont think it is my right to have children but my choice - the same as every human being - whether it be my own or adopting for example.  I feel as a trained teacher, along with my other skills and experiences we would make fantastic parents, as long as we can get through the long process of adoption

thanks for your comments and I wish you all a very merry christmas

I wish you the very best of luck if you do decide to go ahead :)

I often think those people who say it's not a right to have children are the ones who actually have them and cannot see the other perspective.  Having said that I don't think children are up for the taking by anyone and that's not suggesting that you are, I am just making the point that the children are the most important aspect in any family whether they are with natural parents or not.  This is why I cannot understand why there is still so much discrimination against minority groups adopting and also why there are groups of children that are being positively discriminated against.  I mean by that those children of ethnic minorities who are only allowed to be adopted by their same ethnic groups.  I think in an ideal world this is the correct thing to do but as already said this is not an ideal world and these children often go unadopted because there aren't enough prospective ethnic adoptive parents.

Have you thought about fostering?  It would be a foot in the door if you are accepted as foster parents as you might be able to argue that you have the experience and success as foster parents which should help the adoption process.  Might be worth looking into to see if it would made a difference.

Good luck

We are accepted foster parents but would never adopt.I am not the sort to want to have another child on a permenant basis but dont mind giving them a better start in life to go on and know how to live right despite all the obsticals that may be in their way.Its very rewarding when you see one of the foster kids years later with a family of their own.I did that recently with a young teenage lad who was with us on a long term foster placement.When he left us we told him he was always welcome back no matter what.He kept in close contact over the years and jokingly called me mum.Now his daughter is here he refers to me as grannie and finds it highly amusing. :)

"I could easy find someone to have a baby as a suragate no problem"

I'm not sure if you are in the UK, but as the law stands this is currently illegal (although in my opinion it shouldn't be!)

However, I totally agree that there are children out there that would jump at the chance to be a family!  Good luck!

Sarah x

Is surrogacy illegal?  What about COTS that was set up by Kim Cotton?  Isn't that still going?  I didn't think surrogacy was illegal, once in a while you hear of sisters being surrogates and mums carrying babies for their daughters.  I think there might be laws regarding the finanical side of things but I didn't think surrogacy itself was illegal.  Could be wrong

I couldnt give up a baby for adoption even if it wasnt my egg or the OH sperm.Did anyone see that programme on the tele not too long ago about the young woman that had cancer and couldnt have kids,she had no womb.Her sister donated an egg,her OH gave the sperm and another sister carried the baby for her.Though admirable i dont think i could do that. :rolleyes: