Hi everyone,

I have heard about using rasberry leaf for bitches but why??

When do you start to give it to them??

Any help please

hi, we have been given our girl these since she was mated.  they help for an easy irth apprantly, my friends swears by it!  it is our first try with them, so hopefully they will help!!

Quote from: [link]http://www.drugdigest.org/DD/DVH/HerbsCareful/0,3924,552026|Raspberry%2BLeaf,00.html[/link] :
Raspberry Leaf

Other Names: Red Raspberry, Rubus idaeus, Rubus strigosus

When should I be careful taking it?

In studies of laboratory animals, very large amounts of raspberry leaf extract caused unpredictable contraction or relaxation of the uterus. Miscarriage could result from either. Although no reports of miscarriage in humans have been published, pregnant women should not use raspberry leaf without the supervision of a medical professional.

It's to make it easier to give birth -can't swear to if it works or not, but I used to use it in cats (and even pregnant humans use it). You start 2-3 weeks before the due date, no sooner.

Wow, thanks for the quick reply!

I was speaking to a midwife and she said they were used in humans as a mild form of oxytocin (sp?) so i didn't know when to start.

Ok cheers v.much.

Hope all goes well with your bitch Jill

Helen

do you recomend it then?

not unless you want to risk miscarriage! i thought it was used to induce labour when its overdue?

ive never heard of it being used and i only use what my vet tells me my bitch needs i never supplement calcium i only use puppy food alot of water and puppy treats on my girl im always a little sceptical when they say this or that will help unles my vet tells me to i wont do it and i have only just the other day had my first bitch with eclampsia but that was because this was this particular bitches first litter she had nine and they are pigs they were constantly sucking of her even though they were getting puppy food aswell

if your vet says its ok and tells you what benifits it has then i would use it other wise i wouldnt

I wouldn't use it either, they will go in labour in their own time when the body is ready.  Good luck anyway.

Warm regards Susan

I give my girls Raspberry leaf from 3 weeks after mating, as per instructions from Dorwest:-

Due to its action as a uterine tonic, this well known birth aid has been used for hundreds of years to help ensure an easy and straightforward delivery. Many bitches and queens who have previously experienced problems have subsequently had normal easy births with the aid of this tablet. The tablets should be given from the third week of gestation and continued until one week after delivery to help ensure complete afterbirth expulsion.

Never had any problems with it so far.

I'm with SharonM on this, I too now give Dorwests Raspberry Leaf tablets but I don't start them until pregnancy is confirmed at about 28 days.  I've had no problems so far & will continue to use them in the future.

The indians use it to cause miscarriages,its stimulates the uterous to contract,
dont use it early in a pregnancy use it towards the end.

I have always used it as per the instructions from Dorwest. From the third week of gestation until,one week after whelping. Am curently using it on a bitch , she is day 48. Never had any problems.
Diane

i drank raspberry leaf tea from 32weeks of my pregnancy and went on to have a very quick and easy labour needing no pain releif.where do i buy some tablets(as i don't think she will drink tea) from for my dog.

Holland & Barrett and Boots have them.

thanks goldmali will get some later.

i had rasberry leaf tea from 34 weeks wile i was pregnant i went into labour at 36+4 days with a 2hr labour very quick. & gave birth to a healthy 6lb 6oz boy.so its great stuff :)
i got mine from holland and barret.
sarah

I ought to say I had a terrible experience with it> resulted in a section 9 days early with only 1 puppy live that had to them be hand reared.

Best to know good and bad.

Unless the results can be DIRECTLY attributed to the use of a particular item, it is easy to jump to conclusions that a particular thing CAUSED something that may have been inevitable; coincidence can drive people to wrong conclusions.

> that may have been inevitable; coincidence can drive people to wrong conclusions.<

100% EXACT BANG ON totally agree with you. This goes for both for and against the use of things.

MOST bitches have easy whelps because nature intended it that way so the majority will do fine without anything given to them. The fact Rasberry leaf was given in fact CAN and may well be just a coincidence.

In my case my vet whole heartedly believed it was the rasberry leave that caused the problem with my bitch.  Her cervix was bleeding for no other reason. They told me after they opened her up. I think their words were actually gentle with me as they knew I would already be feeling responsible for giving it to her. This is the Direct  link

Would like to give you the benefit of yhe doubt Tohme but the reply landed in my inbox so  I hope you are NOT implying that I have jumped to conclusions !!! I never have and don't.
You seem to be continuing your bad habit of thinking you can have your say on posts but discrediting others. I am not some silly woman making sweeping generalising statements. :rolleyes:

>Unless the results can be DIRECTLY attributed to the use of a particular item, it is easy to jump to conclusions that a particular thing CAUSED something that may have been inevitable; coincidence can drive people to wrong conclusions.<

Tohme do you think the readers and members of the board need you to tell them this. How do you think they make it though their everyday in life. They "listen" to to others and make their own minds up. Your new job moderating the posts ;-)

Asprin can have major benefits to the body but can also cause some serious harm but we are made aware of both good and bad and decide what is right for us.

Once again Blue I am not sure why you are jumping to the conclusion that I am implying anything about anybody.  You seem to be continuing your bad habit of thinking that every time I post that you are being singled out in some way, trust me, you are not ;)

This forum is for everyone to post their views, why so defensive?

Had I been addressing you personally I would either have headed my post with your name, as I have done with this one, or sent you a private e -mail.

The fact that your vet BELEIVED it was the raspberry leaves that caused the problem may just mean he could find no other obvious cause, he does not know this for a fact.

Once again ??

I am continually thinking you are directing things at me :rolleyes::rolleyes: hmmm  you have replied to 2 pf my posts BOTH times incorrectly. Whilst perhaps others let it go I am not.

Your reply came into my inbox so I guess you replied to my post!!!, that is how it works. My inbox is set to receive ONLY replies to my posts.  Seeing as you had already given your take on it as others had their's including myself, I do not think there was a need for you to tell people not to jump to conclusions when nobody had.

It was a very condesending post from where I am sitting especially as it came at the back of mine when I FACTUALLY told of a serious reaction I had experienced to Rasberry Leaf. 

My post gave my experience of it. It didn't dismiss anyone elses post. There was no generalising in my post.

>This forum is for everyone to post their views, why so defensive.< 

Errrr re read your post Tohme. That spells it out very clearly. !!!!

You need to take your own advice  at times Tohme. 

I don't think any individual incident can easily be put down to the suspected cause but there is no doubt there has been  research evidence that raspberry leaf does have an effect on the uterus (in humans anyway :)) the most recent study I read was conducted in Sidney but I can't just lay my hands on it.  However, ever piece I have read suggested that the effect is to cause the uterine muscles to strengthen and eventually to contract and is therefore used in the very late stages of pregnancy.  None of the human research has indicated that it should be used in early pregnancy in preparation for this and as others have stated it has been used historically, whether successful or not :), to induce abortion so it seems to me that Dorwest are pretty much out on a limb with their recommendations.  Like all drugs, herbal or pharmaceutical there will be risks to the use and it appears to me that anybody should proceed to use it with caution and I definately believe it would be better left until the late stages just incase the dose is overdone or some other factor causes it to induce contractions early rather than later.  I'm wondering if you too were advised to use it from the start Blue as a bleeding cervix at that stage might well result from a uterus trying to expel it's contents before the cervix has a chance to ripen naturally?  The sooner all herbal medicines are licensed in the same way as any other drug the better I think.

To get back to the orginal post... I received this email today, I'm not sure they can claim for sure that "it will greatly increase the likelyhood of healthy mum & pups". Personally I used raspberry leaf and my bitch had an easy whelping, but then she's a breed that doesn't normally have problems

Dear Dog Breeder,



We have an excellent product that may well be of interest to you.



It is called WhelpEase, which is a herbal blend including Raspberry Leaves that can have an enormous benefit to the birthing process and production of milk.



It is very inexpensive and will greatly increase the likelyhood of healthy mum & pups.


Ingredients: (Dill, Ginger, Nettles, Raspberry leaves, Southernwood, Vervain)

Sizes Available
100g, 250g, 500g, 1Kg, 2.5KG, 5KG

I wonder if they mean that because it may ease whelping that complications may be avoided to both mum and pups if labour was protracted?

Yes Tohme I agree, however I would think that the correct wording should have been as you suggested - "may" rather than will :)

I've been wondering about using Raspberry Leaf Tablets on my bitch for a while now and have already purchased some in preparation, after reading comments on this subject I am now doubting my decision to use them.

Is it possible that people who have had bad experiences, have used RLT suitable for humans on their animals or is there no difference between the products sold by Boots,Holland & Barrett etc. and those sold by Dorwest Herbs or similar companies that are producing supplements for animal use?

Would most people follow the guidelines advised by Dorwest to start supplementing with RLT at 3 weeks of gestation or would you wait until further into the pregnancy?

Opinions please :)

Everything I have ever read about Rasberry Leaf says that it strenghthens the womb muscles and stimulates them to contract which if you think about it is not what you want in early pregnancy when the womb needs to relax and stretch by great proportions.  It is also mentioned as an abortificant in some instances, used in the early days I would imagine. The advise given by Dorwest does not seem to be replicated anywhere else.  The sooner herbal medicines are regulated the better.

hi everyone i wouldn't give it at all but that is just my opinion, as long as your girl is on a healthy balanced diet which the intake has been upped i wouldn't bother with no wive tales.  A balanced diet is quiet sufficient.

Warm regards Susan

I wouldn't bother either.  Every breeding bitch should be in excellent condition and well nourished.  The most important factor to me would be a good level of excercise ensuring good strong abdominal muscles before mating and keeping that up for as long as she is enjoying it.
Dogs don't have half the difficulties that humans do, well not those breeds built in a way nature would have them ;), pups are torpedo shaped pretty much so expel with a great deal less effort.  I have no idea how they ever manage to get a human babies head out of where they do :D
If the breed has large headed puppies I doubt a bit of raspberry leaf would make a whole lot of difference.

She is an easy whelping breed, I think I got them more for me than her :D
It will be the first time for both of us and I 'm up for trying out anything that will aid both of us :)

I consider to her to be in an excellent condition,and having a good 2 hours of exercise a day with most of that free range!

Why use it anyway, let the dog deliver in it's own time, why give something what has no factual basis to say it is good to give.  Would you use it yourself?  the thing with humans is they have to interfer why not let the dog or any other animal deliver naturally and only intervene when things go wrong  You see so many peeps on here wanting to get involved as soon as pups are born eg oh pup hasn't taken a feed in five seconds of being born should i take over and mimick mum no leave the dog alone until all pups are out and let's see how she copes when labour is actually over before you intervene, let the pups come out and learn to suckle on their own only interven when their at the other end of the box and mother is at the other end. Sorry some things do irratate me:rolleyes:

Warm regards Susan

Hi Susantwenty,

Yes, I think I would have used it on myself if I'd known about it 15 years ago if I thought it made things easier and less painful.

I used it when I was pregnant. I'm told my labour was very much quicker than would have been expected - fully dilated from first inkling of labour took 6 hours.

I gave it to 1 of my girls, she had 10 pups in just over 2 hrs, no fuss, no probs & hardly any mess & I`d use it again :)

Everything I`ve read about says its beneficial in helping during pregnancy & it`s known as a birthing aid throught the world. I got mine from Hilton herbs, link below. I would say always to buy quality products from reputable sources when buying herbs of any kind :)

http://www.hiltonherbs.com/

Hi Christine,

So what instructions were you given re: dosing, and when to start administering? How long after whelping did you continue RLT?

Thanks for your input,

chocymolly.

i'll look at your link later  :)

Hi C/M, I got the  J. de Bairacli range & if I remember it was started from three weeks before she was due & a day or 2 after whelping. The dosage is on the tub but you could always email/ring them & ask , I find them very helpful :)

ps I`ve got her books but lent they`re out on loan :rolleyes:

thanks jeangenie,

It's good to hear positive as well as the negative.

I was fortunate when giving birth, mine lasted 4 hrs from start to finish without any help! however if I'd known of RLT i'm sure i would have used them anyway.

chocymolly

I've always given it to my bitches too. If they're not to be mated I gave it from the start of the season for three months to help avoid extremem phantom pregnancies. If a litter is planned I gave it from three weeks post-mating. All whelpings have been easy and natural, and never a puppy lost, either at birth or later.
:)

I hope I didn't sound too negative :)  There is evidence about that suggest it certainly has an effect I'm just not convinced it is necessary for healthy, normally built animals that generally do not have difficult births but I don't think you will do any harm at all providing it is given towards delivery rather than early in pregnancy as the vast majority of guidance, and the logic of it, seems to suggest.

*It is also mentioned as an abortificant in some instances, used in the early days I would imagine. The advise given by Dorwest does not seem to be replicated anywhere else. *

I think that sounds pretty negative Isabel

>I hope I didn't sound too negative

I don't deny there are particular aspects regarding its use that I don't agree with but I don't disagree with its use generally which is why I went to the trouble of clarifying what I had said in the post above.  I had hoped that had made it clear enough!

Perfectly clear now :)

Hi Isabel,

It did sound a little negative but I'm sure that is just concern on your part  :)

I did think that it may be worth waiting until week 6 or 7 before given RLT, I have emailed Dorwest Herbs with my queries but as yet I haven't received a reply.

chocymolly

I think we were typing at the same time!!

Try Hilton as well see what they both say :)

I have phoned the Dorwest Herb Company and they said " all their products are regulated & licenced by the VMD" this means they would be safe to use at the guidelines they recommend.They said it helps to relax the uterine muscles etc and promote a quicker whelping.
PooPoo'd the idea that it causes abortion or death of puppies, by the bitch whelping too early.

The only problem they said it may cause is for those bitches that don't get strong contractions, and if this were to happen they do not recommend giving RLT to that particular bitch if she were to mated at a future season or to bitches who Dams have had lazy whelpings.(I hope this makes sense)

Well I clearly don't understand its use at all.  I always thought that delivery was achieved by strong contractions expelling everything, softening the cervix maybe be useful but never by relaxing the uterus

Oops!

Sorry, I was trying to follow the scribbles I wrote whilst talking (I'm not good at remembering what people say), I think maybe he meant relaxing the bitch and promote a quicker whelping.

However after speaking to the man I still think I will wait until the last 3 weeks before I start using them.

I'd never make a secretary would I?  :D

I tried it when i was pregant had it every day from 40 weeks and had to be induced when i was 10 days over due, so i don't think it works