I come from Poland and have just finished 'The Dog Listener' which was translated into Polish last year. While reading it I though that my dog was absolutely great not presenting any kinds of compulsive behavior described in the book. While reading the book I also started to work with the dog using AMICHIEN BONDING. Funnily enough the very moment I finished reading there was something wrong starting to go on with my dog. I have a 2 year old great Dane. It's my first dog and I had had no experience with dogs before. For different reasons he came to stay with me about 6 months ago when he was 1,5 years old. Great, good-natured, peaceful dog, no problems with him whatsoever! I had to watch the diet as his digestive system is very sensitive and delicate but that was it. My partner (whom the dog met and got to like while in Poland) lives and works in Frankfurt. Every year I move to Frankfurt for the whole summer. This year the dog came with us as well. We were worried how he would take it. Nothing bad happened. He was very quiet in the car although the journey took nine hours. He seemed to like the new place although the apartment is much smaller to what we have in Poland. The same diet, the same habits - nothing changed. We were very happy that he took it so well until about a week ago... It all started with some bottles of water. When we brought them from the shop and put them in the middle of the room suddenly the dog started to go crazy about it. He spent an hour smelling it, saliva dripping down... no aggression, just this incredible tension and enormous excitement. Now he goes crazy about all sorts of strange objects: books, magazines, suitcases, vases, one fragment of the sofa, alarm-clock, TV cables, cushions... he is all so tense. He used to sleep a lot during the day. Now he doesn't at all. He used to be very peaceful. Now he is all wind up and full of tension. There is no rest, no peace, no silence. We have this dog being crazy, being hypnotized by such a different object, spending hours standing over it and then moving to a different, even stranger one. When we go out for a walk he is back to his old self. I do know what this is, I do not have great experience with dogs... but we are all going crazy here with the tension... PLEASE HELP!!!!!! Isabella

Hi Isabella, First let me say, Im no behaviourist, but I think it would be worth getting a vet to check him out, as his behaviour has changed so drastically. It could even be a sight problem, or strange smells on various articles. I have a similar happening in my household, though not so extreme. My partner has a photo of his daughter Lisa, next to a photo of my daughter Caroline, on a cabinet in the front room. Daisy, my Lurcher, knows Caroline, but has never met Lisa. At least twice a day, Daisy suddenly shoots up, ( she can even have been sound asleep) and barks furiously at the photo of Lisa, but never at Caroline, and no matter what I do, she will not shut up till shes had her say. Strange little dog!!!! I wish you luck in discovering what the problem is.

Wierd :(
I think your dog has developed an obsessive-compulsive disorder. This can be caused by some kind of trauma like a new home or moving to Frankfurt, although I doubt it as you are with him providing the stability of your presence. It is possible though. Alternatively, the bottles on the floor may have suddenly appeared very strange to him. Sometimes light shining through water can play tricks on the eyes. Something has set him off.
This is the same disorder that finds people repeatedly washing their hands or a dog chasing its tail all day. Obsessive thoughts are followed by compulsive behaviour - in your case the staring and drooling. It's difficult to control. It causes endorphins (chemicals) in the brain to be released giving the dog a 'high' fuelling his anxiety. This would explain the restlessness and tension.
It stops when he is out for a walk. Good. That's an excellent distraction and you should get him out as often as you can. If he plays with toys then you can use these to distract him into play or use treats to do some basic training when he starts to stare at an object.
Spend time grooming/stroking him as touch can be a very relaxing and calming influence.
In a worst case scenario your vet can prescribe drugs to counteract the effect of the released endorphins helping to control the compulsions. Chill him out!!
Can't comment on the Dog Listener I'm afraid - I haven't read it!!
This is my opinion - see what others think. :)

As an afterthought Isabella - epilepsy can also manifest itself in many wierd and wonderful ways. Philippa is right to suggest the vet gives him a thorough examination.
Hope you get to the bottom of it :)

Hello Lara,
Thanks very much for your reply. You gave a great insight into the matter. The dog has calmed down a bit. He even slept for a few hours during the day. However his object obsessions still go on. I talked to my vet but he could not say very much not being able to see the dog. I do not want to go to any vet I do not know and trust. As soon as I am back home I get the vet to check the dog out. Epilepsy sounds horrible! What should I pay attention to?
Isabella

Hi again Isabella, some people do have odd manifestations of epilepsy, usually because they have a form of the disease called temporal lobe epilepsy. But I would be very surprised indeed if the behaviour you describe was due to epilepsy in a human. That said, I'm not a vet, and have no experience of epilepsy in dogs.

Isabella, years ago a young dog of mine suddenly began to act in the same way, except that there had been no move or disruption. We (and the vet) were at our wit's end when a friend who also happened to be a toxicologist visited. Chris looked at the dog, looked a the new, and as yet unlit, black enclosed solid fuel fire and said "Chromium poisoning". The vet was dubious to put it mildly, and we were too, but the vet did agree to check the dog's chromium level and it was, in his words, high enough to kill a cow. Apparently chromium poisioning does happen to cows sometimes, because they lick fence posts, and some (older) wood preservatives contain chromium and arsenic. As does the paint used on some black stoves & fires, but if Chris hadn't visited we would never have known that.

This probably isn't relevant to you because the cause turned out to be so odd, but some form of chronic/low level poisoning, maybe with a heavy metal, might be worth thinking about?

Hello Sharon,
Thanks for the reply. That is very interesting what you've written about and that would actually make sense. We have a wooden figure-sculpture that we brought from Thailand last year. It's covered with some sort of paint or preservative. The dog has been playing with it recently. I can't remember the exact dates and how it all works in time but it's possible. The dog has calmed down a bit and slept a bit during the day but his object obsessions are still a bit strange. What happened to your dog? How did you treat the disorder? How long did it take?
Looking forward to hearing from you,
Isabella

Hi Isabella, apparently the paint is removed or becomes chemically inert (can't remember which) when the fire has been lit, so we kept it burning for a few days. Apart from removing the source of the toxin in this way, there was no other treatment. This all happened a long time ago so I can't remember exactly how long it took, but the dog returned to normal behaviour quickly - certainly within a few weeks - and her chromium levels dropped to a trace. The vet, after he had made some inquiries, and our toxicologist friend Chris both thought that there might be some residual neurological problems but there were none and the dog lived a very long and healthy life. I hope that your dog's problem turns out as well. Best of luck, and do please keep us informed of how things go.

Hi Isabella, I am from Polish background (parents) and am a fluent speaker, if you want to chat then mail me in Polish if you like, though my spelling and grammar aren't brilliant

Czesc Brainless,
Dzieki za odpowiedz! Nie wiem o czym chcialbys pogadac? O psach? O Polsce? Mysle, ze sobie poradze z Twoim spellingiem i gramatyka. Podaj temat! Pozdrawiam Isabella

Hi Isabella,
Welcome. I'm glad to no longer be the only member (it seems) located on the Continent. I'm down in the Kaiserslautern area just south of you about an hour or so away :D Where in Poland are you from?

Perhaps your big puppy is reacting to moving from the country life to the city. I know Frankfurt can be large and noisy. Just a thought. I wish you luck solving the mystery.
sara

Hi Sara, you forgot me!!! I`m over here as well just a little bit further south.....well nearly in Africa really:)
Spain!
Christine2

Hello Eoghania,
So we are here together. I am from Wroclaw. That is South - West. That used to be Germany before the II World War and the German name for the city is Bleslau. Isabella

Sorry Christine, that I forgot about you. :O To be honest, Spain is kind of a distance away though ;) 24 hours by train to Madrid is just a tad far :D To find someone only just an hour away is kind of neat :)

Isabella, amazingly enough, I am acquainted with your home region. My mother's paternal grandparents were from the Niesse area of Silesia (Zelsch, Friedewald, Grottkau, Schlegel, etc...). I have their Polish counterpart in names written for modern reference. They left around 1896 for the USA, but were in contact with relatives until WWII. :( I have one cousin here in Germany, her brother is in Spain, and the rest of the family has either died out or vanished during the Iron Curtain years. :( I just returned from a visit to the Saxony area south of Dresden. Close, but not quite to Poland yet to visit the region. Must do more research before I feel comfortable enough to just pop over for a visit :)

I hope you have a good time in Frankfurt. The weather hasn't been so great in the last week. But August is usually the opposite :) Too hot and dusty ;)
Sara

Sorry to hear of your problems, Isabella. Can you remember if the change in behaviour coincided with any injections ? I've heard that some dogs can have bad reactions to certain jabs.

Hi Isabella,

How do you react when he does this funny behaviour? If you reassure him and give him attention then you could be (inadvertently) perpetuating the problem.

I am not a behaviourist, and this is just a thought, but I have read 'Think Dog' recently (by John Fisher) and it mentions that some dogs in adolescence can suddenly begin behaving oddly with things which should be familiar to them, but may have been moved to a new position or something. He says it is very important that you react appropriately or the dog will get worse. The example he gives is if you move an armchair to a new place, the dog knows the armchair but isn't used to seeing it in its new place, the dog behaves oddly, as if he is scared possibly, and at this point if you start reassuring him then he'll think there is something to worry about! John recommends you adopt a 'Don't be silly! It’s only that old chair!' approach, and then go and sit in the chair, showing the dog it's nothing to be scared of. Sort of 'jolly him along' rather than giving him any cause to believe there is anything to worry about.

I am not an expert, and certainly not about Danes! But at two years old, could he still be a 'teenager' in doggy terms? Certainly my breed (Weimaraners) can still be considered so at that age.

I think all the other advice on this thread is very valid, and my point may not be relevant at all, but I thought I'd drop you a line anyway, just in case it helps.

Good Luck!

Linda

Hi Isabella

I think you have been given some very sensible advice so far, and I will add my 2 pence worth :)

I would definitely suggest a visit to a good vet, as it may be, as others have suggested, a form of low level seizure activity. I know little about Danes and whether they are prone to this, (or to Obsessive disorders), but I do know it comes across in different breeds in differnet ways; for instance, some will develop an obsession with water, some will just appear depressed, and some will manicallydo what they have been bred to do....for instance BC's may attempt to chase/catch flies or even flames....other signs are licking everything (carpets, floors, walls and living things too), staring for ages or trying to catch non-existent things.

I also agree with someone -sorry, forget who! - hwo mentioned that maybe Frankfurt is very busy and perhaps your Dane is a bit stressed out. This is worth considering too, as it can be hard for a sensitive dog to live in a busy city environment :)

I hope very much there is not too much wrong with your Dane but hopefully if you take everything into account, you can then start to work out what exactly is the problem.

Good luck!

LIndsay

Hi Zicos Mum,
Thanks for the reply. I know the book. I have also read it and remember the fragment. That would make sense but the objects have always been the way they are. Nothing has actually changed. He is not afraid of them either. He is a bit of a child - teenager dog so that may be down to his adolescence problems. Hope so !!!!!!! :) Isabella

Hi Isabella
I'm no expert on behaviour but wanted to tell you that reading your post rang a bell.
In this weeks issue of Dog World Newspaper (July 12th) Anne Roslin-Williams has written an article about *teenage* dogs getting all silly and spooked at the sight of normal everyday things. She is basically saying that it could be to do with physical changes affecting their ability to see things properly & judge distances. She has drawn her reference from an article about *human* teenagers she read in the Telegraph.
Don't know if you can get hold of the paper in Frankfurt and I'm sorry but I don't have a scanner on my PC so can't scan it & e mail it either.
Not sure if that is of any help to you.
Good luck. :)
Nicky

Nicky

I missed a couple of Dog Worlds - I'd be interested in that article if you are able to scan it

Wendy

Hi Nicky,
I hope so, hope so, hope so!!!!! I hope it has something to do him growing up. Does the article say how long it takes and what I am supposed to do? Isabella

Hi Isabella & Wendy J
Haven't got a scanner on my dinosaur PC so I will type the article in here.
Here goes...........
Why teenage dogs are clumsy too by Anne Roslin-Williams
An article in the daily newspaper on the development of teenagers offered a possible explanation of something which can happen to *teenage* dogs.
The adolescent canine who has been unfazed by anything as a puppy can sometimes turn spooky at the sight of something such as a litter bin, someone wearing spectacles or even a person just walking out of sight behind a tent.
The dog will peer at the object as if it cannot make it out and start alarmist uncertain barking, which terrifies itself further, and may become permanently spooked by the experience because this happens when the youngster is at a particularly sensitive age, that of becoming a young adult.
According to the article, during the growth spurt it seems that the visual areas of the human teenager are not fully myelinsed (a physical process to do with hormones which enables the nerves in the brain to transmit more complex signals) until the mid teens.
Also, it takes time for the brain to catch up with the physical changes of adolescence, which is why teenagers are clumsy - they have temporarily lost their ability to judge distance.
So could young dogs who stare at things and then spook be going through a stage when they, too, cannot judge distance and are seeing things differently? They certainly go through a stage of unco-ordinated movement while growing, presumably similar to the human teenage clumsy stage.
Doubtless, experts will shoot my theory down, saying that human and canine brains are quite different, but the article certainly seemed to make sense to me. (Daily Telegraph, June 28, So that's why they sleep all day..) Source:DogWorld

I really hope that helps you Isabella. I have Irish Wolfhounds and the adolescent males are very phobic, stairs, slippery floors etc and it is really hard to be reassuring to them and their fears while still remaining calm and not allowing them to think it's ok to be afraid.

Let me know how you get on please. :)
Nicky