Hi All

I expect you have read my other posts about my westie Hamish who has got very bad skin problems at the moment, i took him to another vet on Wednesday for a 2nd opinion about his skin as i wasn't happy with how he is getting on. This vet has done skin scrapings and is talking about putting him on Atopica to help control his skin, he wants him put onto a hypoallergenic food, at the moment i am feeding BARF but he does not seem any better on this i must admit, he has been on this now for around 2 months and his skin seems to be worse instead of better, i asked about naturesdiet but the vet didn't seem to think this would be any good as he said it is not a hypoallergenic food, does anybody know whether naturesdiet is hypoallergenic or not?
He wants me to start him back on Wafcol salmon and potato but he was on this before going onto BARF and there were no improvements on this also, i am at my wits end with what to feed him now and would like some different advice from other people that may have looked into naturesdiet.
He has got a very bad smell to him that the vet said goes with the skin complaint, he has given me malaseb to bath him in so i am just hoping this will work.

Thanks in advance
Helen

I'm surprised your vet is putting so much stock in the word "hypoallergenic", because basically it doesn't mean anything and is a word created by the food industry for marketing purposes.  Yet again - vets are not specialist nutritionists and receive only approx one afternoon training in vet school on diets for all pets.

What you need to know is: Is your Westie allergic to a food?  Which food is it?  Which diet can he be fed that doesn't include the food(s) he is allergic to?

The way to determine the answers to these questions is to tell your vet to take a blood sample and send it to York Labs for assessment.  York Labs will run tests on the blood and will give you a list of ingredients your dog is allergic to.  You can then scan the ingredient lists and choose a diet.

I wonder if the vet was referring to the foods that are available with a sort of coating over the probable allergens, I think Teri has mentioned these before and knows more about them so perhaps you could pm her for more information if she does not see this thread.
Don't worry, your vet may have only had limited information about who sells what (I see it is now just down to 1 afternoon ;)) but he will have spend years study anatomy and physiology and consequently will have considerable understanding of digestion and the effects of nutrients.  I do think it worth trying some testing to try to identify the nature of the problem though but in the mean time I don't think you have anything to loose trying the Hypoallergenic diet suggested by your vet.

There is no such things as a hypo allergenic food per se.

However, commercial manufacturers of some prescription diets have evolved a diet which, although containing exactly the same ingredients as their "bog standard" diets, have been treated so that the proteins which may be the allergens are "suspended" so that they cannot cause any reaction; hence why they are so expensive.

This may prevent any symptoms but you will still be none the wiser to which particular foods your dog is allergic.

FWIW before placing my dog on this diet I would have a blood test done and sent to Yorktest labs or similar to identify the particular allergens; they have two tests, one for environmental allergens and one for food allergies.

The results will tell you which foods are the problem and to what degree.  Therefore by eliminating these from the diet you can feed a regular raw diet by just omitting certain protein sources.

This is not cheap however it is no more expensive and probably cheaper in the long run than having your dog on a prescription diet for life and at least you will have the knowledge of exactly WHAT the problem is, rather than treating symptoms with drugs that can, over a long period, have serious side effects.  Even if you DO have to continue with some allopathic treatments, you may be able to get away with a lower dose.

I rehomed a dog with severe allergies to several foods, by eliminating those from his diet (they were identified by yorktest) he never suffered from the chronic ear problems he had prior to his arrival.

If he has a bad smell this would indicate a yeast overgrowth such as Malassezzia which is a different issue but also can be releived to a large extent by diet; has the vet done tests for this?

HTH

Helen,

I'm really astounded that your vet has not run allergy tests on Hamish.  Whether a food is hypoallergenic to Hamish or not depends on what he's allergic to - he may not even have a food allergy.  If you do not test, you do not know.  Naturediet can be used as an exclusion diet, meaning if Hamish was allergic to lamb you could feed him any of the Naturediet blends that did not contain lamb and you'd be certain there was no hidden lamb (as is ground bone, for example.)

There are hypoallergenic foods in which the proteins have been denatured, they are available by prescription from your vet.

Stacey

You can not get a "prescription" from your Vet. But your Vet should be able to do a full allergy test that will determine what ingredients to avoid but you have to ask for one it cost about £42.00 but well worth it .

I don't understand why can't they get a prescription from the vet?

where would they take it ?

:) I think you are misunderstanding. "By prescription" means prescription only ie only the vet can prescribe it, not publicly available over the counter.  Having said that I'm not sure if, these days, you can ask for the vet for an actual prescription to take to the suppliers direct.

Isabel,

Right, except you can get a prescription for your vet for drugs and special foods that formerly you could only obtain directly from your vet.  Hyperdrug Pharmaceuticals is one of a least two online suppliers that will do so.   You post the prescription from your vet to the supplier and then they will send you the medicine or specialist foods directly - generally cheaper than you buy from your vet.

However, now that I think of it, I'm not sure you need a prescription for the food.

Stacey

The FP10 human prescription works because the money gos to the NHS , Vets unlike their human counter parts share the profit  they get with the dog food manufacture. No vet in his right mind will give you a prescription to take to someone else to get the profit.however all this is or is about to change
The online services you have mentioned have thrown a spanner in the profit line of the Vets. All you need to do is to ask your vet what food he is about to proscribe and buy on line. However having witnessed one of my friends doing this don't expect your Vet to be happy in fact be prepared to find a new Vet However the law changed on the 31st of October for medicines (but is not required for food )and they now  have to offer you the choise but you need to ask -Jo     

Vets have been writing prescriptions for people to obtain medecines elsewhere for years.

And GPs have been charging for private ones for years :)
Still not at all sure about your point Jo, you starting off by saying the script couldn't be filled anywhere else but by the vet but you seem to have contradicted yourself about that now and going on to say...............well I'm not sure what really :)

sorry, the law changed on the 31st of october 2005 just over a month a go for medicinces but you do not need a prescipton for food just a supplier -Jo

You misunderstand the law, Jo - I believe it's now changed to vets being obliged to write prescriptions if their clients want them to. Before this thay had the option of refusing. I know that vets could issue prescriptions 8 years ago because my vet asked me if I wanted him to do this! Vetmedic and other companies could only sell POMs with a vet's prescription. They always charged for them though - usually about the same as the difference in cost between getting the medicine from the vet or getting it at a cheaper price elsewhere! ;)

Jo I think you are a confused and you may certainly be confusing the OP and other readers of this thread.

Prescription diet IN THIS CONTEXT, refers to the "special" diets called that by the commercial manufacturers of the foods and vets, diets that are designed to tackle various specific health problems, eg the z/d diet which is "hypoallergenic", or ones designed for other health issues; they are only available via your vet, you cannot buy them at the shop.

It has nothing to do with writing a prescription for medecine .....

Hope that clarifies things for people.......

perhaps this link may help ;)

http://www.thepetcenter.com/imtop/td.html

Oh tohme you never cease to amaze me in your never ending thought that you know everything, check on this web site.People can save a fortune on prescription foods .http://www.bestpetpharmacy.co.uk/(The Competition Commission investigated the supply and sale of Prescription Only Medicines (POMs) in the U.K. One of the main findings the British Government accepted was the recommendation that:
Pharmacies, such as Bestpet Pharmacy, should be allowed to dispense prescription and non-prescription animal medicines.-JO (NOT CONFUSED)

Your thoughts not mine Jo ;)

But I am glad I never cease to amaze, if I can bring some astonishment into your life I am thrilled :D

Cannot see the fortune that is saved on these prescription diets as having a quick glance down at the prices of these foods they do not differ substantially from those on sale at the vets...................... mind you, perhaps my vet is cheap! :D

Although you are correct, I omitted to say "high street shop" rather than internet service................ :ROFLMAO

Again I was referring to foods rather than POMs, as far as I am aware food is not regarded as a POM?

Like wise I am sure , also how lucky you are to have a price list from your Vets To hand at such short notice, must ask mine next time I am in for his , however I do know that my friend save over £5.00 a case , but as its his dog that ill I don't know exactly what food.
My point was that dog food is not a prescription food although called so and can be purchased without a prescription whether it's a high street shop or internet shop.JO  

Fortunately my vet is on line..... ;)

It must be a blessing for him as well, what do you do e-mail the dog to him  when its ill ?

Fortunately for me my dogs are never ill jo! ;)

something we have in common then ,At least they benefit from our beliefs -jo

Hi

Thanks to everyone for their posts, sorry have not replied sooner but have been working long hours at work the past few days and have just crashed when i have got home, luckily i live at home and Mum looks after Hamish when i am at work. I look forward to the weekends when we can crash out together on the sofa and watch some tv, he lays with his head in my lap and goes off to sleep while i catch up on my soaps, he really is a little couch potato!!
In reply to the questions, i asked the vet about food allergy testing and he said that they are not always conclusive and also he thinks Hamish would be allergic to quite a few things, this really was not the answer i had hoped for as i feel if you don't test you don't know and if i am feeding something that he is allergic too he will never improve!!
I just wanted some feedback really as to whether Naturesdiet was a hypoallergenic food as the vet said no but i thought there was nothing in it to react other than if he was allergic to the meat?

Will let you all know how he gets on and thanks again.
Helen and Hamish

Personally, I would not be happy with this reply from my vet.

Some vets are, for some reason, sceptical of the York tests, I don't know why.  They are quite a new development in the UK although have been used in the US for years, so perhaps that's why.

I know of many dogs allergic to several foods.  Some dogs, it's found, can only eat 2 protein sources (meats).  Surely, the more foods your dog is allergic to, the MORE you need this test done???? Not the less???

If it was my dog, and me, I personally would insist this test is done, regardless of what the vet thinks of it.

Helen,

I'd switch vets.

Stacey

Hi Helen

You may remember me, I replied to you back in October - my little girl, Belle (4 years old), was suffering skin problems similar to poor Hamish.  I was at my wit's end watching her constantly scratching her skin, attacking her hind quarters and biting her paws - she had bald patches all over and her little paws were red raw.  My vet put her on two courses of steroids and antibiotics (he also wouldn't give her an allergy test - said they were inconclusive - what a load of crap - at least you'd have some idea!) until she became so lifeless and depressed - with no improvement in the itching - that I decided to go it alone.  By a process of elimination, I discovered that she's allergic to beef, rice, all of the commerically produced treats and household cleaners.

I changed Belle's food to Naturediet: Chicken and Carrots, Lamb and Carrots and Fish and Carrots (sorry, I don't know if it's hypoallergenic -but this link to Naturediet's website should answer some of your questions http://www.naturediet.net/ health_advice /index.html), put her on a course of Sulphur and Arsenic for six weeks (I tried her on the BARF diet but it didn't ease her itching at all.  I know for most people who change over see a great improvement in their dogs, but others don't - Belle is one of the 'others' unfortunately. Although I give her a raw lamb shank (small) twice a week which she loves) and I sometimes cheat and occasionally give her and her sister, Holly (a yorkie) fresh cooked fish, lamb, chicken or duck with it (very naughty of me, I know! but they're my babies) and she also gets a supplement called "Missing Link" in her food (http://caninenaturalcures.co.uk/ missinglink.htm), an Evening Primrose Oil tablet every evening and an Omega 3, 6 and 9 tablet every morning (the reason for the amount of oils is, I believe, to keep their skin supple).  At her worst times, I bathed her in Hibiscrub which helped ease the scratching and used/still use Colloidal Silver which relieve her itchy feet! (she still sometimes gets itchy feet), her coat is now thick and healthy and she's back to her old self - playful and full of energy (except in the mornings, of course - she likes her lie-in).  She's back to chasing squirrels again and wants to be out all the time - it's such a turnaround since last July.

I wish I could say that this will work for Hamish too but, as you know, every dog is different.  I can only tell you what worked for Belle and hope that there's something here that you haven't tried yet which might ease Hamish's suffering.

Trish, Belle and Holly

If your dog is allergic to rice, how come Naturediet is ok then?

Sri, my error - I had posted this and then realised when I read it back that I had put rice as one of the foods she's allergic to - which she isn't, thankfully.  I meant to retract it this am but got waylaid.  Thanks for pointing this out to me.

Trish, Holly and Belle