Hi guys

We are a gay male couple who want to adopt.  We have the time space and money, and support to help a child in need.  We have wanted to do it for the past five years and have had noting but discrimination through the whole process.  When we phone we tell them our curcumstances they think we have fantasic skilss and knowledge etc but as soon as social workers find out where a gay male couple they make every excuse not to accept us such as your to young (where 26 min age is 21), where only looking for black or mixed race carers.  Your relationship is not strong enough (we have been together for 10 years lived together for 9 years and have our own business where we are together 24 hours a day) etc

I would like to put it to the group for your own personal comments - I wont take any of these comments personaly as the more truthful the better.  Sometimes you can go through things seeing only your point of veiw.  Even my own mum thinks we would be the fantastic parents however think its wrong to fetch a child up with two days. 

What are you thoughs?

Just wait till they find out you've got dogs too! :D

So many organisations need to get onto the next millennium. Being gay is a way of life and not something that should be frowned upon. My closest friends are a gay couple and I think they would make the best parents for any lucky child. Isn't it more important to have 1 or 2 loving and caring parents no matter what sex they are ?? If a lesbian couple wish to happy a baby nobody frowns on them as one of them tends to get pregnant artifically. (sorry if that sounded harsh)

Now that gay couples can get married later this month and have finally been able to get the same recognision as a male/fem couple some agencies might consider single sex parents if they didn't before.

All I can say is if my gay couple best friends wanted to adopt a baby I would support them 1000000000%

If you are a strong and loving couple with the time and love to offer a child it doesn't matter if you are a single sex couple. Its the love you can give that counts

Have you considered the effects of a child having same sex parents, how you would explain it to them etc and deal with bullying and teasing etc.
It is not so many years ago single mothers and divorce were frowned upon, so things are moving forward, I wish you both well.

I've nothing against gays, but I do believe that a child that is adopted (like any child) needs the input of both a 'mum' and a 'dad'. This is not to say that you wouldn't make a good job of bringing up a child, I'm sure that you would. I'd say exactly the same to any person who was planning to bring up a child as a single parent :)

Good luck anyway :)

Daisy

i'm all for it-i think that if the stability and love is there, then why not? I don't think same sex parenting is an issue to be honest.

nicola

Thanks for all your replys.  This is something that we have been concidering for a long long time.  With tell the child ect I believe in the truth, I would tell them that we are together because we love each other etc.  However with the bullying side kids get bullied at school for all sorts ie ginger hair glasses, to fat/skinny etc so if there is an issue this would have to be delt with the same way as any other bulling issue also we have a plan to speak to any school we choose to ensure they new of the childs situation etc and leaning could be adapted ie go home and ask your mum and dad type comments.  We would deffinatley tell the child the truth from day one the same way as we would tell them they where adopted as the child has a right to know. In My Own Oppion.

I heard about a programme the other week about a gay male couple who adopted a child who had strong attachment to their mother and for the child it would be best if it was put with a single male or gay male couple.  Other children who we have enquired about have been abused by female relatives therfore would suit being placed with someone like us

Thanks for your comments x

I am not against it at all as I think any couple should be vetted for their ability as parents and also financial stability :)

I wish you well in you well and hope DC helps in your dream of adopting a child ;)

ps where is your salon as I need to get a new hairdresser as getting really peed of with my current one ! :D

Thanks LJS, I definatley agree.
These kids have had horrible up bringings etc (not all) and I 100% agree each person needs to be vetted over 100% to ensure suitablity.

Thanks for you message x

I have to commend you for being so brave to stick your neck on the block on a public forum.

Here goes -

IMO in an ideal world children should have a mum and a dad in the traditional sense.  However we do not live in an ideal world and there are children without one or other or without both.  I don't think gay couples should be discriminated against when it comes to fostering or adopting children.  Every person or couple should go through the same scrutiny as any other traditional type prospective parents.  The most important thing is that the child receives the love and care that every child needs and deserves.

There are still many people who believe that homosexuality is a result of nurture not nature and this might be where your stumbling block is.  A gay friend of mine is convinced that he and his 3 brothers are gay because his mother wanted girls and ended up with 5 boys.  One of his gay brothers is the identical twin to a hetrosexual brother so can see why there is still some doubt as to the suitability of gay parents.

On the other hand the social workers might just be telling the truth as to your suitability.  I don't have any first-hand experience of the adoption procedure but I understand it is a pretty hard nut to crack.

Thanks Chez

I put my neck out really so I can have an idea of the whole look at the subject.  All my friends are supportive but I know people out there have serious issues about it and I am also willing to take there comments.  I think sometimes in life we only look at one side however when it comes to getting a break with an agency it would be good to be prepared for any questions etc and would like to answer them honestly with an open honest answer. :-)

I agree that each case be taken on individual merit......In my opinion, two loving, caring partners should be allowed the same consideration, regardless of gender.

I wish you well, and hope all works out for you

I personally have nothing what-so-ever against same sex couples and their desire to become parents is just as understandable as it is for other couples.

Except......I have a very good friend who has a partner of the same sex now, but used to be married at which point she had 2 children.   The youngest see's nothing different about her mothers relationship with her girlfriend whom she calls "mummy 2".  She gets teeased at school about it, but hits back with "well. I'm lucky-I've got 2 mummies, you've only got one"!!  The eldest used to feel the same, but now feels her mother is doing something wrong by being with another woman because of the bulling she has been on the receiving end of at school. 

Neither of them have ever been led to believe that there is anything strange about it, it's purely those other children at school.  They now worry the youngset will be bullied into feeling it's not right.

They are so uspet at the effect this has had on such a previously open and happy little girl and find that nothing they try to do is helping as yet, they feel trapped by their feelings for each other and have even discussed parting purely for the benefit of the eldest daughter, and to prevent the possibility of the youngest child being affected later.

So, although I think there is no real reason to prevent same sex couples from adopting a child, it may be that there needs to be a huge change in the views of the general public before it can be done without some children having a hard time as a result of it no matter how much they are loved by their adoptive parents.

Good luck to you both and fingers crossed you find a way to change things for the better.

Jess.xxx

I dont see a problem with a gay couple adopting a child, if you can offer a child the love and support that they need, then that is the most important thing. However I do think that when the child is at a certain age they could get teased. But as previous posters have mentioned, some children are resiliant about it, and give as good as they get.

I take my hat off to anyone that wants to adopt, a work colleague has recently take a years maternity leave. She has just adopted a little girl. This has been going on for years, going back and forth, her and her husband have been to court, and had many interviews. Finally they have got a beautiful little girl, they dote on her, this little girl is never going to want for anything. She braught her into work yesterday, and they are a picture of happiness. Adopting is so involved, they put you through so much, my colleague said if she had known what was involved she would of thought twice. She said it is really worth it in the end, but it is a lot of hard work, so many people scrutinise you, and look into your life, and the kind of people you are.

The best of luck, and I hope you succeed.

Rachel

Hi,
You could argue on both sides of this issue. I think it depends on the age of the child,
I would advice that you may consider fostering, at first, go through all the training ect:
Pass all the necessary screening, then, have a few placements, long term, fostering
many be an alternative, then adoption probly later. I am afraid you will probly have
to prove yourselves a little more than a heterosexual couple. But!! if you want to
eventually adopt, you will not mind. I have a close friend who is gay they have just
done this and are at present very good foster parents. There can not be any descrimination,
because you are gay but! be up front about all matters, ask them questions straight out.
and have your answers ready for questions they will ask you.
It will be a hard treck but! worth it if you really want to help some children,
Offer to take on a family of children. Best of luck!
Regards
Denese

Good Luck whatever you decide to do :-)

To be truthful I don't know where I stand on this but I definitely wish you luck. My parents used to foster many years ago and it was very rewarding. 

This country really makes me laugh, they are crying out for loving,caring homes for these poor and needy children,yet make it so hard for people who can offer all of this and more,because they dont fit in with the 'norm'.
I have a friend who is a lesbian and she applied to be a foster carer only to be told she was too overweight.She dieted and lost 4 stone and all of a sudden,she didn't fit the criteria for the children they had waiting.She gave up in the end.
What does it matter if a child has 2 mums,2 dads or 1 of each? At the end of the day if the child is happy,healthy and secure that is all that matters.I also have no doubt that same sex couples can give all of this as well as 'normal' parents,if not better.

As with dogs, for a child to be born, there is male and female involved.   Period.

To be brought up properly, children need love, discipline and a routine.   Ideally in the "perfect" world, by their biological mother and father.  However, this is not a perfect world but children still need love, dsicipline and a routine, in a family environment.   They thrive better this way.   The family environment has always been fluid - at some times in history, it has been mother, father, grandparents, aunts, uncles, etc.   During periods of war it has often been mother, aunt, grandmother.   What does it matter, as long as there is love, discipline and routine?   And mostly love?

Thompson - I wish you and your partner well.    I too would advise you to consider fostering firstly - there are a lot of troubled youngsters out there, often with loads of baggage, who need love, discipline and routine - and this I am sure you would be able to provide.

I must admit to being saddened by reports that the gay millionare couple who had babies by donar now, allegedly, treating these children as "trophies", dressing them in designer clothes, etc etc.   But I am saddened when I see this happening to children of hetrosexual people as well.

Good luck!

Margot

I must admit that I have always felt a little uneasy about gay couples adopting children, until I saw a documentary called Wanted:Mum and Dad. In the programme a little boy was adopted by a gay couple. It was fantastic to see the relationship between them grow and the little boy was obviously so well loved and cared for. After years in foster care it was just what he needed and he truly didn't give a stuff that his parents were both men.

Good luck to you both :)

where i work there a gay male couple there with two boys,which i teach,these kids are well balance,polite.easy going kid that talk to anyone level.well loved and care for too,in some way better than a nomal couple 2.5kid with a dog,

but i dont thing they are adopted i think they are ai with a surgate morther the two kids look so much like the dads.

only one thing i will say with me beening a women it took a long time for them to come round to me,but the i get hugs now.

I dont think there is anything wrong with it at all, in one way, it is a good thing because the child will grow up knowing that "gay" people are normal people and are not to be made fun of! My brother is gay and has been with his partner for 5 years, to be honest i think they would make better parents than me, my brother is a teacher and when my son is naughty he only has to look at him and he starts behaving and my son looks forward to seeing him everytime. THe only thing i can think of that would be quite awkward is when they ask about the birds and the bees! Unless you have thought about it beforehand, i can see it being terribly awkward. Good luck x

Margot I saw that in the papers and in some respects they are like the Beckhams :rolleyes:

I would say though I do think both of them do love the children even though we may question the materialistic way they are bringing them up :)

Hi Waffy,
I would advise your gay friend to re-apply to another close area to foster,
there is still a lot of prejudice out there among Social Workers who do not
understand why people are gay. My close friend, who has been one for over
20years is very well ajusted and an old school gay. They would confront
Social Workers striaght out and ask them if they had a problem with
them being Gay, if so, asked them to send another worker. You can ask
to speak to the Team Leader, If they have in anyway discriminated against
her, they are disaplined. But! don't always think all heterosexals get through,
they don't. But! I do agree there are many children out there that are living
in dreadfull circumstances, that can't be brought into care because there are
no room to place them in foster care. Gay people, like Heterosexals,
have a place in fostering. There may be a child they have come to love and
the child them, who needs a long term placement, that may be adoption.
If people want to foster they should never give up,
they are very long winded, with there visits ect, But! get on the phone constantly.
If they give a reason you don't agree with, ask for it in writting and appeal.
Social Workers are only people, some good and some bad.
Regards
Denese

OK. I firmly believe children need a mum and a dad to grow and flourish and be completely balanced. I say this because my OH was raised without a dad and he harbours years of resentment to his mother for depriving him of it, his dad for not doing "dad" things with him, and he clearly remembers craving male company as a young boy. Even now, there is a huge gap in his life where his father should be.

I am not saying that I am against gay couples adopting, but how do you give the right balance of care/emotional stability etc if the couple are same sex? If the couple is male and adopting a girl - how do they discuss female things?

Good luck, in whatever you do - and I agree that a child placed in a loving same sex household is better than one in no household at all - but I would just advise caution for the future :)

I agree Chloe. My husband was born posthumously and his mother didn't remarry till he was 11. Apparently as a little boy he felt so 'different' to his friends, suffering a lot of teasing at school, that he'd ask any man he spoke to if he'd be his dad. His stepfather was a very good man who did his best, but when my husband became a father himself he had no idea how to handle things, and I had to teach him as well as I could how fathers behave with children. It was very difficult sometimes. Children need a role model of both sexes if they're to develop fully.

If a gay male couple can organise plenty of contact with women, the children will benefit greatly.

> but when my husband became a father himself he had no idea how to handle things, and I had to teach him as well as I could how fathers behave with children.

Yup - I can relate to that.

Of course it is not always the case that they will turn out so.  My Grandfather was killed early in the war and infact as he was in the RAF at the time of my fathers birth 8 years before and by all accounts he and father's mother were not well suited :) he had met him on very few occasions anyway.  Not only growing up in wartime London with no father and very little male influence except a drunken sot of a Grandfather he spent some of the time evacuated.  Yet he was the kindest, most sensitive and involved father to me and my 3 sisters that anyone could have wished for and I am very close to him to this day.
I have to say, though, this rather points to the beneficial influence of woman on the young child and I think any single or couple of men taking on a child should do their utmost to supply this.

I think the difference there is that during the war it wasn't unusual for the father to be absent - many thousands of men were overseas. It's when a child is in an unusual situation that trouble can arise, which can have a very long-lasting effect on them. Nowadays single-parent families aren't unusual and the children seem to be accepted without question. It wasn't so in the 50s and 60s.

He had spent he first 8 years of his life before the war only meeting his father about 3 times.  He does not remember him at all.  His parents were quite unconvential, they did not bother registering him until the got round to marrying when he was a year old so I think he probably experiened his far share of being "different" :)

I'm pretty open minded as well and know a large number of gay couples. I think love is universal and it doesn't really matter whether it is love for another man or a woman. Love is love and as long as it's there it doesn't really matter ;) . I know it's hard because people will judge, but I guess it pays off to know you have someone close to support you......
Being a psychologist there's one issue i would want to consider. In child's emotional development  mother plays very important role. Children mostly bond very closely with them, specially in the early years. Not only breast feeding but also the non verbal communication between a mother and a child..... well, just one point of view to consider ;).

Good luck with whatever you decide!

Hmm, not sure about part of your point re emotional development.  Not all mothers breast feed, far from it unfortunately. Also children tend to make the most secure bondings with the main care giver regardless of sex or whether or not they are related :)

my personal view is that I find it interesting that an increasing number of the population (hetero or homosexual) consider that having children is a right, not a privilege.  I also find it interesting that gays wish to have all their cake and eat it so to speak ie have a gay relationship but also have children, even their own if they can find a suitable donor/surrogate so that they can be "just like other families only gay".

I have no probem with what consenting adults wish to do in the privacy of their own home and relationship, I do have very serious misgivings about children being raised by anyone who does not reflect the natural of order of things because children get bullied very seriously with regard to anything that may be "different" about them.  Some of these things cannot be avoided, some can and if I were gay I would consider extremely carefully the potential problems my child(ren) might face as they grew up, just as I would be if I carried a defective chromosome and knew that a %age of any of my offspring could be mentally/physically handicapped etc.

I believe that it is the rights and health and future of the CHILDREN that should ALWAYS be paramount, not those of prospective parents, whether they are gay, straight, drug addicts, gamblers, alcoholics etc etc etc, sometimes I feel that the emotional well being of the children is sometimes the last thing on anyone's mind..............

Discrimination is a part of life I am afraid, whether sex/colour/religious/weight/looks/age etc etc etc the list is endless.

Sometimes I think the pendulum has swung too much in the wrong direction so that to have any chance in life you may have to be a single/gay/overweight/ethnic minority, pregnant, female to be considered for some posts/activities!  ;)

I have to say I'm for it. 

From what you have said you are in a stable relationship, stable with money and have time to look after a child.  and most of all you WANT a child which IMO is the most important thing.  I don't believe a child needs a mum and a Dad.  although I have always been brought up in the sterotypical nuclear familiy so I don't have any experiance but a mum and dad is not needed (a male figure and a female figure are needed wether this comes from friends, grandparents etc.)  As has already been brought up my only concern is those few people/families in the minority who seem to be homophobic :(  This could cause the child some problems but I'm sure that people will learn to relax abit especially with the same sex marriges! :)

The last thing I want to say is GOOD LUCK :)  I'm sure one day someone will see that you will make excellant parents! :)

I think as long as the child is taken into a loving stable home it doesn't matter who brings them up. It would be far worse for a child to be left in a childrens home than to be teased by a few other children. However i do think it would be important for them to have a female role in there life be it the adopers mother, sister, friend etc.

Speaking as an adoptee, I'd rather see no need for adoption at all.  45 years later, I'm still struggling with the thought that the one person who SHOULD have cared for me handed me over to two strangers.......

Ahh that is very sad you feel this way :(

I know a few people who are adopted and have spoken in great depth on their feelings and some have found trying to find their biological parents helps them start to come to terms with it :)

One hasn't yet found them but they have talked to alot of people in the same situation and it has helped them make a bit more sense of things :)

Lucy
xx

Digger,
     I am sorry that you feel that way.  YOu have every rigth tho.   Weren't you really Choosen?  I would like to think so.  I am childless and looking into adoption but am happy with my four legged kids.  I have neices and nephews that are "Choosen" and hope that we as a family have done all that we can to let them know that they are loved and not forgotten.

Hi digger,
I feel for you feeling that way. There are many reasons why women can't care
for there young. In most cases there love for them is so much that they feel
it is a better decision to give the child up for a better life, for one reason or another.
I have an adoptive daughter who is now 27yrs old, who I love very much. I have
asked her many times if she wants to find her birth mom. She say's no!
She has one Mom that is me. I would do it for her if she wanted,
as I do not feel threaten by her. If the love and careing wasn't enough.
That is my failure! My daughter thinks it is better to be adopted,
and belong, than just fostered and owned by the state untill 18yrs old then out
on your own with no body who cares. When you attend court to adopt a child
the judge askes you a lot of questions. Then you have to agree to bring the child up as your
own and you gave birth to it. This is done on oath. Big comitment.
Regards
Denese

Hmm.

I dont think the 'but the child might get bullied' argument is at all sound.

Some kids get bullied, some dont, depends on the child, depends on the peer group, depends on the parents (no matter WHAT gender they are), depends on the area they live, the colour of their hair, whether they are fat or skinny or wear specs or limp or have spots or have a different accent.....

If we did EVERYTHING to make EVERY CHILD the 'same' as every other child, what a horrible boring world full of people who all thought the same and did the same and sounded the same and looked the same we would have!

Every parent, every person, has to make decisions based on the information they have at the time.

My mother made the decision to stay with my father for 10 years rather than leaving with two small children. She made it with the best intentions, because at the time not many people got divorced, not many kids came from families where one parent had left.

I wish she had left him! Did it stop me being bullied - did it hell!

I got bullied at school because my parents gave me opportunities other kids didnt have. Whilst they were sitting on a beach in Spain doing naff all and eating icecream, i was skiing down mountains in Bulgaria, exploring caves in Peru, riding horses, getting booted out of pony club camp, taking train journeys on my own.......

Should my parents have said 'no. we shall not take our childs to see interesting things, we shall go to spain and be like everyone else in the village'.?

Rubbish! So yeah, ok i suffered a bit at school, because kids will pick up on and bully others for ANYTHING out of the norm.

My childhood, despite those wonderful experiences other kids never had, did in fact turn out more than a bit sh!t. If id had the choice of being brought up in a loving environment with two people who cared for one another and me, didnt scream and fight and drink themselves to oblivion, use me as a pawn in their emotional game of chess, require me to look after them when they were drunk and falling down the stairs, but just HAPPEND to be of the same sex.

Id have said HELL YEAH!

If a couple can provide a happy, emotionally stable environment, can afford to have children, have the time to have children then i dont see why not!
I dont agree that everyone has the right to have children, not at all, but if the above criteria are met, i think being a cuople of the same sex is pretty irrelevant quite honestly!

Em

I agree em :D

For me, it has nothing to do with sexual orientation. It is all about love, commitment and a good set of morals. I sometimes despair when I see young children pushing buggies. They have no experience of life and I wonder if this affects their ability as a parent.

Good luck to you and I hope that it all works out. At least you have spent time thinking and planning, some people end up with children after a 5 minute fumble with a stranger. :)

Hi,
I'll give you just one  instance, were a gay couple can be an asset.
A little girl age 6years, and her sister 8years old,
has been repeatedly sexually abused, they are very frightend of men
They shake when they come in to contact with them.
Constant nightmares, ect; ect; They are brought into care, what would be the
ideal placement for them? "A lesbian couple"
Regards
Denese 

Thank you everyone for your comments they are so helpful. 

I do belive however it is the way people are brought up etc on how they behave.  We between us have 16 nephews and nieces and all of there friends at school/home etc now that there two uncles are Gay.  not once have they suffered bullying because of it becasue in there eyes this is just the same as being black/white etc.  Because they have been around this type off environment I think it helps.  It is almost the norm now to various strangers we speak to that say Oh yeah my gay/lesbian friend/brother does that etc.  I belive it is along the same lines as single parent families, look back over the years and see how that was frowned apon and look at it now, I think I know more of single mothers then ones still with the fathers.  I hope and think it will take a few more years but I think socity does change and even over the past 5 years people have become more subseptable to same sex relationships... we even see it on eastenders now lol.

I do however belive things to protect disabled/ethinic minoritys etc are only really put in place to protect them due to the high levels of discrimination that people who arnt the NORM suffer.  And I do agree that sometimes these polices etc do get abused and used for the wrong reasons.

I really do thank you all for your coments, its very much appreciated

Hi Thompson 1,
I would go for it, It sounds that you have good family support ect:
You are right children are bullied for all reasons, I could tell you many.
I think that you have chosen the best route of thought.
Try to give a child a home that is already here and needs someone to care.
Regards
Denese

Gental counselling perhaps over time.

Hey,I am a happily married woman who has 7 kids,and the god father of my kids is a gay man.Hes great and i love him too bits,pity he is gay. :) We have a laugh and go clubbing together in all the gay clubs.Dont knock it till you tried it he tells me.....but.......well.........not my style. :) :) :)

I think you need to really think about how it will affect your child. Kids say horrible things at school and it's almost inevitable that it will lead to some insecurities within the child regardless how you teach them that they are special etc, which could lead to horrible things.

If I was in care with no one special and had the option of staying or going to Gay parents I would snatch your hand off for the new parents. 

Its amazing what kids except that we adults cannot. 

You go for it if you feel you can give a kid a good life.

I myself was adopted and being different like that  leads to horrid things anyway.As long as the child is loved then thats all good. :) I would of loved a home but spent most of my days in a childrens home.

Hi Thompson1

I think that if the child is loved and secure then it matters not one bit whether the parents are gay.  It's certainly true that children can be bullied for many reasons; my daughter was bullied because she was a redhead, but I wouldn't let thoughts of future potential bullying put you off your desire to give a child a loving, secure home. If bullying should happen because of your family set up, then you will deal with it in an appropriate way, as all parents do when faced with the problem of their child being bullied.

I wish you and your partner all the best and I hope that you achieve your dream of having children :)

Lesley