First I am going to say my dog is booked in at the vets this afternoon, but I really wanted to write all this out and get some people's opinions, and also any tips on how I can alleviate her symptoms to speed up recovery. Or I don;t know, maybe I am just worried and want to write it all out..
My five month old shepherd pup hasn't been the same since we went up to North Wales and stayed with my partner's mum and her two shepherds. She formed a very close bond with one and when we left Wales my pup was really depressed and off her food - she had really lost her 'smile'. I put this down to just saddness from their seperation, and put a lot of energy into devising games for her and training scedules to keep her occupied and happy. We got back from Wales on wednesday of last week. While on the farm her poo was a bit softer than usual, but we put this down to a change of environment, change of water, and perhaps a bit of scavenging on the farm. We got home on wednesday and all seemed well until Friday when she developed quite severe runs. I was due to take her to the vet to get weighed anyway, so I took her and she was as lively and bouncy as a puppy is. The vet said as long as she was ok in herself, to see how she went until Saturday and if she still had the runs to book her an appointment. I bought chicken for her on the way home (the butcher gave her a little raw bacon from his butcher block as a treat, which she gladly took - and she does have raw marrow bones so I didn't think this would be a problem) and started mixing in boiled chicken with a reduced amount of her Burns minibites, to try and coax her into eating again. She continued to have the runs all day, and was very picky about eating. She would go to poo, look like it was an effort and when she moved away there would be a small puddle of very watery poo. I kept an eye on her, kept her fluid intake up (constantly encouraging her to drink) and waited until satuday morning. On Saturday morning, her poo was a lot better - still a bit soft, but it had form to it, although she would do a small bit of runs right at the end. She was still not really eating. She seemed good in herself though, and we played ball a few times, went for a walk and did two sets of training for 10 minutes each. By lunchtime her stools were firm again so I thought it was all ok. In the evening though she was badly constipated, passing what I can only describe as poo that was very hard and were in egg-shaped balls. I gave her boiled chicken and rice and kept an eye on her. On Sunday my partner - who has the car which we need to get to the vets - had to leave as his grandmother fell and broke her hip. All day on Sunday our pup was very subdued, and literally slept all day, only getting up (in a very exhausted way) to go to the toilet. She ate very little and was generally so quiet and subdued it was totally out of character and really worried me. My partner got back late and we decided if we saw no improvement in her by 9pm last night we would take her to the emergency vets. She did perk up, ate more than she had done in days and so we decided to book the earliest appointment we could for her today. Today she has again eaten very little, had two spates of the runs, and is again subdued. For example, instead of running ot the door when someone comes in, she will just lift her head - ears up - and wait for people to come to her, which just isn't her character. I have prepared a poo sample from this morning, which was really runny, and when I went to container it, I noticed it was also very mucus-y. We are taking this for them to do tests. The vet has raised the possibility of a gut disorder before (colitis?), but decided to wait and see how things went with her. I wanted to know a) is there a possibility this has come on because she is down in the dumps about missing her friend, b) should I think about taking her off Burns, c) what can I do to keep her fluid intake up, particularly when she isn't eating? I will of course discuss all this with the vet, but I am interested in any advice about extra things I can do at home to help her get over this, as well as what the vet will recommend. I will let you guys know what the vet says this evening, and I know you are all going to think I am an idiot and irresponsible, for not taking her to the vets sooner, but I really did make a mistake on that one and I am ashamed and angry with myself for not taking her on the saturday, but as I said, she seemed fine and the vet said as long as she was fine in herself and the poos hardened up, it was nothing to worry about.

First don't beat yourself up

Keep her with hydrated with boiled cooled water with glucose(or sugar0 & a pinch of salt in it. I always have some B sorb(well usually do just lent my big bottle to friend in the village whose Rough Collie isn't eating properly)in to give if a dog isn't eating. I also always have some natural orgabnic live yoghurt in as it forms part of my dogs diet & this can be upped if needed

Some puppies have cast iron stomachs & others get stress related/food related tummy upsets

You can get some electrolyte powder from the vets or on line to keep in as well but the glucose/salt boiled water is a lot cheaper !

I will do what you suggested straight away. Will let you know what the vet says this afternoon. She just looks at me with these sad eyes and I can't help but feel totally responsbile by not taking her back to the vet on Saturday. Anyway, I will put the water and sugar mix in her water and I will get someproper rehydration sachets from the vets today andorder some in to keep for the future.

Her natural reaction to feeling unwell is not to rush about it's part of the survival behaviour of animals(that we as humans never seem to do for ourselves :rolleyes:)

Paws crossed for her here our GSD bitch sometimes has an off tummy if she's eaten extra rich"titbits"from guests & she's 10 & fit as a fiddle otherwise

Well, we went to the vets and the vet is quite worried about her. She has an enlarged lymph in her abdomenon and it looks like she is some kind of stomach virus because she has a high temperature and her mucus membranes look slightly swollen. She is also panting more than usual. The vet gave her an anti-biotic injection, a course of penicillin, and she has an oral paste for the runs. She is also on a tinned food that is just chicken and rice instead of her kibble (used on dogs that have dietry intolerance). The vet was initially very worried it was a stomach problem where part of the intenstine got into itself, but then my pup decided she was going to give it some mouth to a spaniel in the waiting room and the vet said she certainly wouldn't be like that if that was the problem, so we felt a bit better after that. She is definitely not herself though and is very depressed and under-the-weather. We have to wait until 8pm to see if the injection has made any difference, but as soon as we came home she went out and did more very mucus-y watery poo. We have an appointment for 9:30 in the morning if there is no improvement, and we have to take a poo sample for testing, but if she doesn't seem to respond to the anti-biotic injection (which was massive) we have to take her to the emergency vets if we see no improvement in her at all. I am so worried and I feel totally to blame for not having taken her to the vet sooner. It is all my fault and I just can't forgive myself. The only positive is she wolfed down her tinned feed and that is probably the most she has eaten in 3 days. She is a little brighter in herself compared with yesterday. The problem now is what has caused it. The vet said iat this stage it could be anything, and knowing where to go next depends on how she reacts in the next 24 hours. I am wondering about her food now, as she is on Burns, but recently I called Burns about what i should be feeding her because she now weighs in at 25.8 kilos, which is more than what is on their puppy weight sheets, and I was told I could mix some adult Burns in and should give her 300g a day. Well since I have been doing this her poo has been softer and then the runs started, so I am worried she has an intolerance to Burns, but the reason I chose it is because I thought it was a good holistic feed. She could have picked up something and eaten it, or it could be a inherited stomach problem, but I know for a fact that there aren't any problems in her lines because I know her breeder very well. Also, we were in an area of North Wales which has a water scare so it could be that. Who knows? I just hope she is OK tomorrow morning...

It is not your fault and I am sure she will be fine :)

See how she is tomorrow first before you start thinking about changing her food :)

Let us know how she gets on :)

Oh please dont beat yourself up. I know how you feel as I have been there, Im sure we all have at some time but these things happen with dogs. Its more of a worry for me than if it were a child as with kids they have the same body as us so you can kind of imagine what might be the problem with them whereas with dogs its anybodies guess. And they cant tell you either and they dont cry they just become really down. Im sure soon you will all be wondering what all the fuss is about, I bet its just a tummy bug. Let her rest and try not to change too much while shes poorly as you may never get to the cause of the problem. Give her alots of hugs and im sure she will bounce back when shes ready.

Keep us all posted.
Caroline xxx

Hi,

I have a GSD called Sabre and about 8 weeks ago he started with exactly the same problems that yuo are going through.. The first thing to remember is that GSD's do have very sensitive stomaches anyway it is renown in the breed .. so please try not to worry to much ok, im sure everything will work out just fine..  With Sabre (my boy) I give him frozen water, i run the cube under the tap first so it doesnt freeze stick to his tongue.... He loves it.

And im sure it is nothing than a nasty virus she has caught!  My boy has now been diagnosed with EPI and SIBO (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency and Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth),  both are quite rare but out of all the cases throughout the world 70% of them are Sheppards.  I dont tell you this to worry you, but maybe you could ask your vet about it... I say this because most vets throughout their career never see a case of EPI, therefore because it is rare they usually dont think to test for it.....  Mine after 8 weeks of investigation and £2000.00 later only tested for this on the advice of a specialist in London..

Again I stress it is more than likely NOT this but if things dont improve maybe you could ask the vet to test for this.

I hope things improve soon.. 

Trudi & Sabre

ps ....  A great lady gave me a tip of feeding boiled/steamed chicken and mashed potatoes .... it is great for there belly, easy to digest and settles them quite quickly ... plus my boy loves it!!  I hope tthis has been helpful and not stressful xx

Trudi, my vet did mention both those conditions, as well as a few others, and she said seeing stomach problems in shepherds was by no means rare - in fact it is extremely common. I think the stage we are at now is to see how things go, and if she hasn't responded to the medication by tomorrow morning, we have to take her in at 9:30am and take a morning poo sample for testing. From there they will try and ascertain what is going on. I was really worried about her an hour ago, as the white part of her eye you see when she looks up still looked red as they did at the vets, and she was still choosing to lay down and wasn't responding to anthing. The vet said she would expect an improvement through the anti-biotic injection by about 8pm, and sure enough, just before 8pm she started to play with one of my socks, and then she went over to her toy box and started to root around, and now she is out in the garden with my partner, so hopefully her poo has improved too. She was weighed and has lost a little weight over the weekend, but the vet said she will soon make that back up.
I bought a chicken and rice tinned feed from the vet that she said is used for dogs that have high intolerance. It has very few ingredients, and she said it might be easiere than going out and getting chicken so late in the afternoon and cooking it all up. She is also having frequent small meals instead of her three a day she has as a puppy under 6 months. I am hoping this improvement is a permanent one and that she won't go down hill again. In the vets I just wished she could tell us where it hurt and what was wrong. I felt terrible. She has been choosing to lay on her back a lot recently (which she does usually when she is really deep asleep, but not as frequently as recently) and because the vet said her lymph nodes/glands (whatever they are!) in the tum were swollen, this might suggest she is getting stomach discomfort. Thank you all for your kindness. I still feel awful i didn't take her sooner, and if anything happened to her I would loose my reason to smile.

I know how you feel, and dog you choose to join your family soon becomes a family memeber and your baby!!  I  think though that the GSD breed is by far the most magnificent breed of dog in the whole world, loyal, brave, noble ... you couldnt wish for more!!  My boy is my life so I totally understand how you are feeling.

I do hope the improvement continues and it is nothing more than an infection..... the laying on the back Sabre does alot of... I think when we rub there bellies it eases the pain!!  My boy is a big lad and he also now reverses onto your lab so you can get right in there and give his belly a good old rubbin!!!!  Love it but when you have a 40kg dog on your lap it can get heavy haha!!  He weighed at the onset of his illness a good 45kg, nhe went down to 38.25 in one week!!  talk about drastic weight loss!!  Now though he is weighing in at 39kg which is a good sign...  But he has been really unwell over the weekend, he has been on a particular drug for 8 weeks now and it has built up toxins in his system!!!  Obviously we have stopped the drug and the vet says there should be no long term neurological damage!!

As for blaming yourself, you must NOT!! You sought medical advise and the difference of 24 hours is not going to of made any difference to her i promise you ....  The main thing now is they find out what is wrong and treat it, and that you give her lots of love and cuddles....

I would still ask them to test for EPI, it is only a blood test and the only way of ruling out or diagnosing EPI...  And with that condition it is vital it is diagnosed and treated asap.....  If it was it would mean a life time of meds but they do stabalize and live long happy healthy lives....  I still think it wont be that and again i dont want to worry you....  Its just I have been through 8 weeks of hell and still am trying to get him sorted I would hate to see anyone else go through this!! 

What did the vet say about EPI to you?  Did she mention if no improvement they would test?  You sound as though you have an excellent vet and im sure she is in very safe hands xx

I hope she will be ok.....  Please Please Please keep me posted ...

Love Trudi & Her Boy

Trudi, can I ask what you feed you shepherd? My girl is everything to me. I have wanted a shepherd all my life, since I was a small child, and it has taken me 25 years to get there. i love her so much. I am now condiering changing her food. I have written about that in my other post under behaviour, when I initially thought my pup was just depressed since leaving her buddy. I am thinking of moving my pup back onto Royal Canin, the food she was weaned on. She is currently on Burns, but if I am honest she has always had a few little stomach episodes when she has seemed to be a bit sensitive, and the Royal Canin seems to have more ingredients that encourage healthy bacteriain the gut. It sure is a minefield knowing what is the right feed for a breed so sensitive in the stomach. I also want a feed with glucosamine in it, which Burns doesn;t have.
My vet only mentioned the EPI along with a list of other possibilities. She is going to start with a poo sample tomorrow if there has been no improvementin her bowels, and she did also mention going on to do blood tests. I will kee you posted, and all your words have really helped me, so thank you so much! If you message me with an email address i will send you a picture of my girl - she is beautiful if I may say so myself (five and a half months and 25.8 kilos - sometimes I wonder who takes who for a walk!)

Of course you can gal, I feed Sabre Royal Canin german sheppard junior, if you buy it from your vets you are looking at about 45.00 per 15kg bag, I have a great supplier locally and it costs me 32.00 per 15kg bag .....  But if you look on line you can get it delivered direct to your house for about 40.00 .. if you need some links sending email me at truditaylor06@hotmail.com.

Make sure it is the one specifically for german sheppards though ok ... When my boy has a bad episode with his stomach I cut his meals fro 3 times a day to 4 smaller meals and only give him chicken and boiled mash!!  make sure you dont put anything in with the potato though, no salt, milk or cream okay...  I have found this settles him alot quicker .... I know Vets say rice is bland but it can be really hard for some digestive systems to digest especially those with EPI or SIBO ...

Please please do send me a picture I would really love to see her, and if you feel like crying, screaming, shouting or just laughing please feel as though you can email me .. I will be here .

Sorry if my typing not great ... had one or two glasses of wine ha ha!!

Love Trudi

xx

ps how is she doing now... hopefully she is still on the up??

let me know

Trudi

xx

oh, forgot if you do change her food mix it slowly in with the other food whether that be the chicken and mash, prescription food or the other stuff your feeding her... Mix it slowly increasing the amount each day... then over say 7 days you should get her totally on the new food...

Please remember do it slowly or you will upset her stomach again ... it would probably upset the stomach of a GSD without any history of stomach upset

XXXX

You can tell im a blonde ha ha ha ... forgot to tell you but Royal Canin do a prescription food purley for dogs with  intestinal problems ... I say prescription but you can get it direct from suppliers too which would be alot cheaper than through the vets ... but i my personal reccomendation is get her back on the canin .. and only change one thing at once and slowly ... that way you can pin point what has triggered a bad episode xx  Also silly you may think but try keeping a daily diary .. i could email you a copy of my diary for Sabre if you wished so you can see what sort of things I record if it helps ... again doing that helps you see what may set her poorly belly off.

xx

Hi, hope pooch is feeling better soon. My 13 week old CKCS  has just got over a nasty tummy upset and my vet put him on Hills perscription I/D - a dry food for tummy upsets with electrolytes added and he came on in leaps and bounds within 24 hours of starting the new food, they do a wet canned version which is maybe what you have? I'm sure he'll be fine, he's a big strong boy....my little dot only weighs 2.7 kilo's!

Take care and hugs for pooch

Hayley. x

Hope your girl feels better soon, Nannyogg. 

Hi, just been reading about your GSD pup, hope she's on the mend now! Anyway, the reason I'm replying is because I have three GSD's and I live in N.Wales.....and there could be a connection, as you say she started being ill while or just after visiting N.Wales. Well on Nov 5th I was at a Champ show in Scotland with my youngest bitch, who is 2yrs old, and when I got home on the saturday she seemed fine, but on the monday she started being sick. I have put my details about Inka's illness in the 'parvo in Scotland' posting, because I read that and was concerned as I had just come back from Scotland. She was sick all the time, and we starved her then tried her again with chicken and rice, which she ate then brought back up, she just couldn't hold any food down, and was very depressed and obviously weak. Then my middle bitch Sasha started being sick, but hers only lasted 24hrs, then she was ok. Friday I phoned the vet to make an appointment, but she said it was sounding like a stomach bug, and as long as she was drinking, she'd be ok, but arranged for her to go in to the vets next morning. Friday night she suddenly picked up, and was eating and keeping it down. Saturday morning she was back to her old self, so phoned vets to say she seemed much better, but by now my 9yr old dog had started with it, but again his lasted 24hrs and he was fine. They all had very watery runs, and it was orange. Anyway my partner then started being sick and the runs and was quite ill for a week, and I didn't feel too good. Well last week, it was on local news that there is a problem with the water which is causing sickness bugs all over N.Wales, and we have got to boil the water. It started in Anglesey area, and is now covering a lot of N.Wales. I'm just wondering if this is what caused my dogs to be ill and my partner and myself, and possibly your puppy? It may be found to be something completely different with your pup but it's a thought, especially as it happened after your visit! All my dogs are fine now, no problems.
My dog has sensitive digestive system, has done since puppy, but all my dogs are fed on James Wellbeloved, they love it and it's good for sensitive stomachs.
Hope all goes well with your pup! I've repeated this story three times now, as I mentioned it in another posting where their bitch was being sick all the time, and the parvo posting, but if it helps in anyway, it's worth it.
Debbie

I have to run out and get a poo sample to see how she is doing, so this will be quick, but one of the first things I thought of was that her sickness might be linked to the water problems in Wales because i was right in that area. Am trying to contact my partner's mum to see how her dogs are doing to see if there is a link. Will let you guys know how she is doing once I have had a chance to see her go to the loo. She is a little brighter - not quite up to speed - but I am a lot happier than I have been over the past two days.

Well, the pup who usually poos like clockwork is now refusing to go, which means we have to miss the 9:30am vets appointment! I am happy though as she is a lot brighter, is wandering around with toys, chased the robin in the garden, and just generally seems a lot brighter. However, because she hasn't been for a poo yet we have no idea if she still has the runs. I called the vet and they were great and said if she did go before 9:30am and still had the runs, to come in and bring a sample, and if she didn't go until later, to bring the sample in later in the day and they will fit us in. They have been great. I am going to ask for a poo and blood sample as a precaution, but the vet did say if she responded to the anti-biotics it was almost certain to have been a virul infection. I am wondering if it does have a link to her stay in North Wales and the infected water problem there - were were in Garndolbenmaen and were told that our area was unaffected, but you never know. I am so happy though that she has eaten (the chicken and rice canned formula) and she seems a lot brighter. I can't tell you how worried I was on Sunday night. I honestly thought she might not make it through, she would only raise her head and had no interest in her surroundings.
Anyway, I am going to go back outside now and do the trigger word for toilet in the hope I get that ruddy poo sample!

Hi, I'm glad your pup is looking to be on the mend! Inka was the same as your pup, very sorry for herself, no energy, and she is normally a very lively dog. She was being sick on off for about 3 days, and no interest in food or anything for about 5 days, and the runs came at the end, and it was more like switching on a hose, it came out with such force, and the colour was a bright orange. I had thought it was something she had picked up from the show in Scotland, and was passing on to my other two dogs. But when my partner was really ill, and myself, then my son, we were baffled as to what would be affecting canines and humans. It's only last week that we got to hear about the water problem in Anglesey and they were saying it was only that area affected, but was causing many stomach bugs, vomiting etc. I was suspicious then, but then they said it was affecting far more other areas in N.Wales than first suspected. We are in Rhyl, which isn't a little village, which you would expect to be affected, but we were told in our local papers to boil the water because of the problem. So I'm convinced it was definitely down to the water as it's the one thing we were all having. It maybe affects the youngsters more than the older dogs who have built up immunity with age, as Inka was definitely affected the most. Mention it to your vet, see what they think.
good luck with the poo sample...rather you than me!
Debbie

I just wanted to let you all know that my puppy is back to her old self - you really wouldn't know she had been so ill. She is eating with gusto again, pooing normally, and has her spirit back. She is still on a week long course of anti-biotics, so I plan to take her back to the vets for a health check when those are finished and discuss with the vet the next step - possibily doing stool and blood tests just to check all is well with her. We have also taken her diet right back to basics, and we are retintorucing treats etc. to check that the illness as definitely not caused by a food intolerance (although this seems unlikely to both myself and the vet because her symptoms did seem more virul than anything). She is doing great though - back getting up t mischief, running us ragged and generally being this bright little star with a goergeous happy smiling face!