Did anyone see on the news that the woman who had the pioneering face transplant op, she had tried to committ suicide and the dog was trying to wake her.  The dog must have been that desperate that it was clawing or biting her face to try and awaken her. 

The poor dog was then PTS! against the family's wishes!

How sad!  The poor dog.  Let's hope she appreciates what the medicine world has done for her and let's hope that she's had some help since after trying to comit suicide.  All I'd heard on the news was that she was savaged by a dog!

I hope she appreciates it too!

I'm sorry but it makes me mad that the dog had to be PTS after it.  She didn't appreciate her life before she tried to take her own but I bet the dog appreciated his life!

It sounds like the dog was frantic trying to awaken her.

How horribly unfair.  I only read the freebie on the bus but this clearly stated that the woman had lost 'half her face due to an attack by a dog'.  How essential context is to any story.

At work we get given a lot of the more sensational, tabloid women's magazines and one had a similar headline and picture. Shock horror! And it was a Rottie too!!  Say no more!!! - Except that more needed saying because in the body of the story, she tells how she meets a bloke at a club, goes back to his flat and sees the young dog. While the bloke's in the kitchen making coffee, she proceeds to leap down on to the floor and growl 'playfully' at the poor thing who then leaps at her in return.  Thank God the magistrate had the sense to judge that she hadn't taken due care and attention and so the dog wasn't PTS in this instance. 

I'm sorry to rant on but I feel very strongly about any lazy reporting that trades on negative stereotypes of any kind.  At least people can usually have some come-back, however inadequate.  This story is all the more tragic because of the recent threads about dogs' diagnostic abilities regarding cancer and epilepsy. 

blimey LM,i never realised that that was that the dog was trying to do.poor dog,what a loyal dog & scared little dog that must have been,sleep well little one

How would anybody know what the dog was up to?  Presumably there were no witnesses.  Can't imagine that any of my dogs would have done this if I was unconcious so maybe it was a rather dodgy animal.  It's always rather hard to tell from press reporting what the truth of these tales are.

If we are to believe the reports that she had taken an overdose, quite probably she was snoring, or grunting, or making sounds that the dog did not recognise as being those of his mistress........

A lot of sadness has overwhelmed these people - just hope that this "experiment" works well, for the sake of all concerned, not the least the family of the donor.

Margot

If I've fallen asleep on the sofa I've often been woken by a dog's paw thumping down on my head, and open my eyes to see a grinning canine face nose-to-nose with me! I'm sure if I didn't respond they'd biff harder and more often.

I've seen dogs that are devoted to their ill family member and I can tell you they will stick there and do anything to try and help out!  Although they supposedly don't have feelings like us I'm sure that they do!

I know of a cat that did the same to it's owner.  The guy had a heart attack and was lying on the floor sadly he had died but the cat had scratched his face.  The Police thought he had been attacked initially but discovered it was the cat.  Who knows what goes through their minds. 

Right there were no witnesses to the face op woman but I just find it appaling that she tried to take her own life, she had no regard for her life any more but the poor dog came off worse and she got a new face with tax payers money! 

I find your post extremely offensive.
You have absolutely no idea why this woman tried to take her own life or what she may have suffered in her lifetime. It is extremely sad that the dog was PTS (through no fault of it's own possibly) but I don't think you can blame the woman either. When you are suffering from a mental illness (including depression) your thought processes aren't the same as a healthy persons. I'm sure she didn't imagine for one minute that what happened would happen. As for saying she got a new face with tax payers money what a ridiculous thing to say. The woman was ill and deserving of treatment like the rest of us!

You have your opinion, I have mine.

I believe people who take their own lives are selfish.

If she had a depressive illness then ok fair enough but there is no mention of it anywhere. she wasn't being treated for it.

The point I was trying to make was that the poor dog had to be PTS and she lived on...perhaps after all this, she won't want to live on and she will try and take her own life again...then what!? The dog died for nothing and I think it's disgusting.

What did the dog deserve? death? NO!

That's my view, you have yours end of.

Yes, you're right, I can have my own opinion :)
You obviously have very little understanding of mental illness if you think that people who attempt suicide are selfish :rolleyes:
It is very sad about the dog :(

SHE wasn't mentally ill!

Of course I would understand a little more if she was.

All I can say is that if she WAS mentally ill she is the wrong choice of person to do this to! My god! Imagine the psychological impact of waking up with someone else's face!

Erm.....do you know this woman then? Do you not think the fact she tried to take her own life suggests that she was not a well woman?

I know what you're saying about the implications of treating her but it's no different than treating the heart of a smoker, or the joints of someone clinically obese. She was a sick woman in need of treatment. The fact that she unwittingly caused her dog to be PTS in neither here nor there IMO. It is the poeple who decided to put the dog to sleep that should be held accountable.

At the end of the day - I am agreeing with you that it was terribly sad that the dog was PTS. I just don't agree that we can blame the woman who owned the dog.

Hi labmad,

We are all entitled to our own opinions and this is a very tragic case - whatever the true cause.  But please do not be so dismissive of anyone suffering suicidal tendencies - it's an area which is bound to cause emotive reaction.

> I believe people who take their own lives are selfish.

Well I've known someone who has and while for those left behind yes, it can naturally seem selfish, but those more closely connected feel personal failure at not having realised how dangerously depressed their relative, friend or colleague was :(

>If she had a depressive illness then ok fair enough but there is no mention of it anywhere. she wasn't being treated for it.

Don't you think that anyone who tries to take their own life by virtue of the act itself is depressed?  That she wasn't being treated for it makes no difference (and she may well have been) but if anything points towards her even more probably feeling that life as she knew it was unbearable.

>the poor dog had to be PTS and she lived on...perhaps after all this, she won't want to live on and she will try and take her own life again...then what!? The dog died for nothing and I think it's disgusting.

I'm sure in this poor woman's darkest hour the deed she embarked on was the result of a culmination of things driving her to it - that anyone should be so truly despairing as to want to end it all, no matter how much she loved her dog, it would not have been her priority.  That the dog was PTS may or may not have been the right thing - we will never know.  IMO it sounds very likely the dog was anxiously trying to get a reaction from her - but we just don't know.

Compassion costs nothing.   Intolerance can cost lives.

Teri

Teri, you have said so eloquently what I was trying to say but failed.
Thank you :)

.

Well I am one of those humans who cares more about animals than other humans. sorry just the way I am.

My whole point was centred around a dog losing it's life probably unecessarily due to the circumstances it found itself in.

I didn't start a debate about mental illness!

Hi labmad,

No need to apologise - you are as I said entitled to your view. 

I defy anyone to love and adore their dogs more than I do mine nor to abhor cruelty of any kind towards animals more than I but I have the life experiences to keep an open mind.

I pray you never find yourself or anyone you love be it parent, sibling, spouse, child or dear friend who forces you to reflect on these comments.

Teri

i tried to kill myself (oD) when i was 20,i dont find any of LM comments offensive. it is selfish to take your own life. Sometimes there dosent seem any other alternative but it is selfish.

From what I have heard,the women took an accidental overdose.
I would have thought this impossible if I had no experience.My OH's cousin died four years ago from an accidental overdose,she was ill and didn't realise how many of a certain tablet she had took,when she did realise it was too late,she had suffered irreparable internal bleeding.She was only 23. :(

I had no idea MichelleD and I am glad you haven't taken offence.  Your one of the most sound minded people I know :-)

There was a guy that lived over the road from me with a 3 year old, a 5 year old and a 6 month old baby who took his life, because he couldn't keep up the mortgage repayments!

The devastation afterwards was horrific far more IMO than had they lost their house!

No mental illnesses no nothing...

Teri,

I would still think the same of anyone I knew who did it.  Yes I would naturally be upset but all my respect for someone would have gone along with them.

rachelandoscar

I agree with what you are saying except there is a flaw in your argument

>it's no different than treating the heart of a smoker, or the joints of someone clinically obese

To strengthen your argument I wouldn't put depression in the same category as self-inflicted problems such as smoking or obesity.  Depression is not something you can prevent.  Speaking from experience I can honestly say that people don't always recognise that they have clinical depression.  By the time they have got to suicide they are in very deep indeed.

I have to say that although I think on one hand it is a pity that the dog was PTS, on the other I find it rather hard to believe that savaging someone's face is a dog's desperation to wake someone up.  As Isabel has already pointed out we don't know what happened exactly or will know why the dog did what it did.  Personally I find the thought of a dog savaging someone's face because they are unconscious rather disturbing.  When I first fall asleep, (deep sleep is the first wave) nothing and I mean nothing will wake me, people have tried and failed and the dog has also tried and failed.

Point taken :)

I think that you could have caused as much heartbreak/offence on here, labmad, as did the poster who said she couldn'st stand fat people :(

Sometimes, it is better just to keep one's true feelings to oneself.    This board is read by so many - and who knows what sort of life people have experienced.   We don't know.  

Margot

Agreed, Margot. Having had a mother who has had severe depression, on and off, all my 50 years, all I can say is - there but for the grace of God ..........

Daisy

For the last time...

I DID NOT start a post about mental illness suicide or the like.  My post was started to highlight the fact that a dog had been PTS (maybe unecessarily) and I thought it was just awful.

This message board is primarily about dogs is it not....??

People are so quick to jump and twist everything that you say and turn the original post into an issue that was not originally raised!

If we all kept our comments to ourselves, this site would not exist.

>I hope she appreciates it too!

>I'm sorry but it makes me mad that the dog had to be PTS after it.  She didn't appreciate her life before she tried to take her own but I bet the dog appreciated his life!

I think perhaps people jumped on this comment which is rather scathing of the lady who had the transplant without appreciating the reasons why she might have been trying to take her own life.  So in fact you did raise this point indirectly, even if you didn't mean to.  

>If we all kept our comments to ourselves, this site would not exist.

Precisely ;)

Sorry - your post implied that you blamed the woman for the dog's death. You COULD have just said how awful it was that the dog was PTS - but you didn't. Nobody has twisted what you said - it's quite clear what you meant.

Daisy

Well my post didn't meant to imply anything!!

My god I'm just saying how I feel for the dog!!!!!!!!

That's the problem with this sort of forum - it relies on the written word only and that is all people have to go on :)

Daisy

I totally agree Margot :(

I can't believe what I'm reading now - I have found these throw away remarks very distressing.  There's a futility about posting on here at times.   

give her a break,this is all out of proportion. Labmad has been a member on here for a long time & is not likely to be on here to cause trouble. shes clearly distressed for the dog as its her breed.

understanding goes both ways imo

Michelled,

I withdrew from commenting on this post several hours ago as did a few others.  Since you've felt the need to chastise my responses let me be absolutely clear in that IMO neither this poster's length of membership nor chosen breed has anything to do with the repugnant tone of the multiple offensive remarks which have been made in several separate posts.

I had hoped this entire thread would die a natural death but as it seems you are determined to revive and sustain it you will have to expect that those offended by it will, if they so choose, have their say.

I have not suggested that Labmad opened the thread to cause trouble and had s/he refrained from remarking on the injured woman's "selfishness", how "the poor dog came off worse and she got a new face with tax payers money!" and subsequent derisory comments about victims of mental health no offence, anxiety or distress would have been caused to anyone.

As it stands all you have served to do is raise the profile of these unfortunate remarks - ergo the direct proportion of their relevance will be assessed individually, regardless of my opinion or yours.

excuse me i left to go to work!!!!!
i know LM &this was a "upset" about the dog post ,any extra comments were just made clearly becayse she was upset about the dog. IM sure weve all made comments that we shouldnt have. Teri you spent a whole post ripping it out of the $ post which i thought was disgusting(HOW do we knew it was a WUp?)& childish.

Streuth, an almost uncanny similarity :rolleyes:  I sincerely hope that anyone with a broken "S" key wasn't in anyway offended ...... 

the whole post offended ME,as do many of the bullying posts that go on on here

Michelle, if you look back at Lola's previous posts and almost certainly some that she posted under another name then you might understand our frustration and that we don't take her posts too seriously ! I didn't read that Labmad was retracting her comments until much later in the thread - perhaps if she hadn't mean to make the FIRST post, she could have added a 'Oh woops, that didn't come out quite the way that I meant' post - but she didn't.

I, like Teri, had finished with this thread and accepted that it had run it's course. The 'bullying' comment is not justified - posters on here should be adult enough to accept any comments made in reply to their posts. If you think that you are going to post something contentious and can't accept the replies - then just don't post !!

Daisy

I've had a few 'bust-ups' on here, but I have never felt bullied :rolleyes:

Daisy

some people are bullied daisy,(not on this thread BTW), on this board. i hate it & in future i will report any bulling to admin who will deal with it (hopefully).

I think that it is up to the individual concerned to contact Admin :) I can stand up for myself and I would imagine most others can also :)

Daisy

.just deleted my whole post,just cant be bothered :(

Sorry Mish you seem to have copped it too now.

Unbelievable!

I feel sorry for newbies on here...I bet a heck of a lot get put off posting.

Good job it's part of my job to be tough.  I won't be upset by anyone's remarks on here for sure. 

depression is a mental illness,as much as any of the "mad ones" i was very depressed for a year,but nobody knew,i guess it was the same with that guy.(the money thing caused the worry & then the depression)
a good way to think of it is that there are some phyiscal illness that you just "get" like cancer. some mental illness you just get,you cant help it.
then some physical illness you catch,ie the flu, sometimes a totally normal person can get trapped by circumstances& this causes a mental illness loike depression to kick in.

do you see its different but still a valid illness?

Its really odd,but at the time it seems like a really sensible thing to do. afterwards when i did get help & some medication it DID help & sort of proved to me that it was a "illness".

hopefully the lady who had a face transplant will be ok about her dog, as if that had happened to me (i had no dogs at the time) i dont think i would have recovered (not the face thingy but the dog thingy). i suppose it depends on if it was her dog or a family dog etc etc.

i really feel for the dog.

Michelle

My dad suffered from depression I know what it's like. I was on the brunt of it often enough believe me!

I just really feel for that poor dog that's all.  That's all I wanted to get across but looks like I've started something else!

i know what you mean!!!!! dont worry,the CD world is going crazy at the moment. i took your point that it was about the dog,good point too.

not everybody expresses themselves perfectly without fault 100% of the time do they? see you on sunday?

No it's not easy when everyone is waiting to pick up on every miniscule detail and jump down your throat...despite saying several times that it was the dog I was interested and concerned about lol!

Sunday?  It's Saturday isn't it?