I'm asking this question at a friend's request, she doesn't have net access often, only from work.

She would like to take her bitch to a stud in Poland, and it will be the bitch's first litter.  She has had all the necessary health checks carried out and shows her bitch at champ and open shows with reasonable success.  She has the support of her breeder and has fully researched her choice of stud.  The bitch is Pet Passport-ed.  Generally I can vouch for the fact that she's being v responsible and thoughtful about it all.

Her question is about timing.  Since the bitch hasn't had a litter before, she has no idea when the bitch would be most likely to be ready for mating.  It will be quite expensive to get to Poland, as they will drive there and stay in a hotel or maybe with the breeder while they are there, so they really want the mating to be successful and not a wasted trip, having to be repeated.  What is the best way for them to go about this?  Do you think they should go over for the whole season (3 wks??) or for weeks 2/3?  Once they get to Poland they can visit the stud every day if necessary, since they will be very close by, but since it will be an expensive trip, the shorter it is, the cheaper it will be too.

I can't advise her since I don't breed, so thought I would see what you all think about it.

Is it easier to visit the stud than use A.I.? I'm just thinking that it would be far easier to have some straws sent over to be used when the time is right....but then I suppose it's our KC isn't it? Are they happier to register from an actual mating than with a.i.? I've sent semen from my boys to New Zealand and the states ....anyway not much help to your original question but more a passing thought :)

Well, I'm not 100% up on this, but my understanding of it is that the KC won't let you use A.I. if it's a bitch's first litter.  They want the first litter to be natural.

Of course, perhaps I have that totally wrong though...?

Ah sorry I didn't know that, I was aware that there were limitations...ok it's a holiday in Poland then :)

I understand you have to have permission from the Kennel Club before using AI.  I don't know under what circumstances they will or will not grant it.

Yes, the dam has to have produced at least one natural litter before permission to use AI will be granted. (See #2d).

And the stud dog too ;)

Even more so - the stud (if still alive) has to still currently be siring litters naturally. So no using stored semen from a live dog who's been castrated or is otherwise infertile.

I would have thought they would be safe getting to poland for about day 9 and can safely return home after a few good matings. hope the effort will be worth it.

what about if the dog is dead? my friend has some straws of semen off of  flynns dad,that he has said im welcome to a straw if i ever have a suitable bitch.

these however would be on the activities reg not breed.

You are correct, and prior permission has to be sought.

AI won't be a viable option as we cannot import fresh chilled semen.  It has to be deep frozen and be taken six months before importing and the stud has to have various health checks before it is taken and then before importing it, and then the success rate with frozen AI is nowhere as good as mating a bitch.

I would get a batch of premate tests (think they are sold in packs of 10) from the Vet and get the Polish Vet to take the blood samples while you are there.  Again about when to go over I would do a survey of bitches in her family and find out the span of time they were ready for mating and opt for the week that is most likely .  If it were my breed I would aim to be in Poland from days 10 to 19 (my bitches have been mated no earlier than day 11 and no later than day 18).

Now if your looking for a fluent Polish speaker I am you (wo)man so to speak :D :D :D

I have a friend who works in Warsaw Zoo who has one of my bitches, whereabouts do the stud owners live?

Wow, that's great, I'll have to let her know we have a fluent Polish speaker!  She's not going over for at least another 6 months (next season), but wants to get everything sorted now.  (As much as can be.)

The stud owners are in Poznan??  west poland??

Now, what are premate tests??  And would they be a better idea than just going daily to the stud's house to see what happens?

Premate tests measure the riding hormone levels that occur before ovulation.

Depends on how reliable the sutd is at knowing the right days.

I would prefer to do premates as well as rely on the dog, as the travelling can just nudge thinks out of sync so the blood tests woudl at least confirm things.

What happens is that the blood is taken and added to a solution and the colour compared to a chart.  If it is way off another test is taken two days later, if the test shows the colour indicating ovulation imminent, tests are taken daily until the desired colour is reached, and the bitch should then be ovulating or ovualting ion the next 24 hours.  It is important that the tests are started BEFORE  there is nay likelihood that she will have ovulated.  Normally from about day 8.

slightly off topic I know but this site is fabulous isn't it....such a wealth of information about any dog related subject... I didn't know about the KC restrictions on using AI having only been involved in the collection part before. And we have a polish interpreter too - fabulous! :)

Yep been soing a lot of interpreting recently with the influx of Polish workers everywhere I go around Bristol.  My dad has befreinded some Bus driveres recruited from Poland by First Bus, and gues what muggins spends her time doing :D

Spent Wednesday in Casualty with the drivers baby Grandaughter who it turns out has mild whooping cough.  I ahd only just got her into the health systyem and she had only had one of ther sets iof jabs.

We've also got 30+ Polish drivers in Edinburgh Brainless - can you offer a 24hr text translation srvice please????? :)

Ok, I have printed this out and passed it onto the lady.  She says it's v reassuring to have....

She has some more questions - about the pre-mate tests, how reliable are they?  She has heard from some people that they are great and v reliable, and from other people that they are often wrong and have led to missed matings.  Thanks.

Not impressed with them myself.  Briedog used them before bringing Gollie to Lastar, they kept on saying she wasn't ready, we were awaiting the results when she brought her to ours and it still said not ready.  Luckily Gollie and Lastar didn't agree and they ended up with lovely puppies.

Ooooooh, I can't wait to see them for the first time at LKA on Saturday, I'm getting really excited now, although worried about showing my face for other reasons that I cannot go into :d

I wouldnt be Diane if its what I think you are talking about, I should think everyone would agree with you, any how I doubt that any one would be there.

Sorry Jenny haven't a clue what you are on about :d  You'll have to e-mail me now and tell me :d  You cannot leave me in suspense.

A certain person in Spanish sent an e-mail to someone who I quite like and it was of everything we'd been e-mailing through the day and I MEAN EVERYTHING :d :d

He may never talk to me again !!!!

Did Briedog get the reading that showed she had ovulated?

I am not saying this is the case but what tends to happen and  I have done it myself is people test , then test but never get the final test where the ovuation has occured. 

For example :

If you test on say day 9 and it says she is not ready

you test on day 11 it says she is not ready but she is standing and you mate her.  Result she has puppies.

You will probably find that if you had done the test on day 13 the test would have shown she had ovulated. You probably caught on day 13 with live sperm from day 11 :-)    Hope that makes some sense.

In essense the test worked.

I have had 100% success with the Premate tests.