Just looking for advice about judges going over dogs (clue was in the title!)

my dog hates strange people touching him and won't stand and has recentley started growling when they do. I have tried lots of practice with treats and getting people i know to try but to no/little avail.

however i was e-mailling another ridgeback person (hi marie!) and she said that if his conformation/movement is good (it is) then the judge will still look at open shows and don't have to go over him. Is this right? Is it just that she has seen it happen?

I would love to show him which is why i've tried for so long but was coming to accept that i wasn't to be. Is this a glimmer of a chance?

Any advice please :-)

Helen.

Hi Helen, don't know about the judges in your breed but they definately go over them in open shows in my breed :) When Molly first entered a champ show she was 'binned' because, so the judge said, her temperament wasn't good enough (she was only 6 months). The only fault she had was being weary of all the noise going on around making her a little bit jumpy. She allowed the judge to go over her and look at her teeth and never made a sound or flinched whilst doing so, but she was still thrown out :( Not saying all judges will do this but if he growls at the judge I doubt if he will be chosen, I could be wrong.
how old is your dog? Have you tried ringcraft? Although lots of friends and strangers at the car boot :P approached molly, she would still be weary of strangers. But at ringcraft and at the shows she's done since, she allows any one to go over her now as long as she is in the 'show' stand :) and has actually been placed 3 times, 3rd, 2nd and 1st.
Someone else may know different but I'm knew to this myself, so can only say what I've observed :)

Dee

In my breed the judge goes over them very thoroughly at Open shows - and sometimes very badly because the judges are generally learning too. :( What I imagine your friend has seen is when the dog has been in the ring in an earlier class and the judge went over him then - so in the second class he stood to one side as a 'seen dog', and only joined in with the rest of the class at the end, where he would have been moved again.

Correct temperament in dogs is of the highest priority, and a judge can refuse to judge a dog who shows aggression; the dog can even be banned. Unless you can overcome this it could be that showing is not the way to go with your dog.

The judges go over every breed that I've seen at Open Shows.  You wil have to be very careful as just a growl can make some judges send the dog out of the ring.

Very few judges will tolerate a dog growling at them, and whilst I would not dismiss a growling dog from the ring I would place it last. Luckily it is uncommon, but sadly a few Ridgebacks do do this. Imagine how you would feel if the growl were to become something more serious.

<Imagine how you would feel if the growl were to become something more serious. >

i know which is why i stopped taking him to ringcraft! He doesn't have an 'iffy' temp, is just unsure/protecting me. He is quite a 'talkitive' dog anyway lots of whining, squeaking, squealing and general rumbling all day!! :rolleyes:

I tried taking him to ringcraft again when i had my pup to see if she could show him what to do ( :-) :rolleyes: )and maybe distract him but as i go on my own i have to rely on someone being able to hold him.

He's almost 15 months and starting to assert his authority over our other dog as he thinks he's 'the man' now!! LOL (but still tries to sit on my lap :D)

I think i've left it too late haven't i?

I didn't buy him with any intention of showing but as he got nicer i wish i'd taken him from a pup. My bitch is brilliant and you can do everything with her (teeth etc) but she's been going since 10wks old. I didn't know about ringcraft classes when i got Mungo :-(

Maybe it's the easy life for him as a pet only! Oh, and ferocious (sp) guard dog!!!

He may get out of it once he is through that teenage stage. Sadly this trait is not as uncommon in RRs as it shoudl be. Bets of luck with yr pup.

yes I agree, just being a teenage brat and seeing what he can get away with!!
Dogs don't growl only when they are going being aggressive despite what people believe; a vocal breed will growl and grumble for loads of different reasons. I had a dog who would grumble when I massaged his ears in a certain way and his eyes used to take on a dreamy glaze; dogs will grumble when they are feeling unsure and are a bit worried about something, I have a dog who will grumble/growl while wagging his tail vigorously.

Too many people think a growl will lead to an attack or is a warning, there is a lot more too it!
Just perservere and practise yourself in the house, get him to stand then go over him yourself, if he doesn't grumble loads of praise then treat. If he does grumble then stop and ignore him for a few minutes, then try again, the minute he grumbles just turn your back - he may eventually get the message!! I wouldn't show him especially under a less qualified open show judge until he doesn't grumble
Good luck

I agree with most of setspan's advice except the very last bit which says not to show him under a less experienced judge at aopen shows, this implies an experienced judge at championship shows will be ok with him growling. They won't. Maybe its a warning  'im not happy here' growl rather than 'im going to have you' but most judges wont hang around to find out which it is. Until you are sure he wont do it dont waste your money.

yeah, I did say I wouldn't show him but that I wouldn't even try an open show judge as the initial post was wondering whether it was better to show at an open show while he gets it out of his system! ;)

You really need to go back to Ringcraft and take it slowly.  Only go to the stage he is comfortable with.  If he is fine being trotted up and down and a hand ran over his back start with that with lots of praise.

Progress onto more contacts, building up to teeth and balls etc.  Go back a step if he shows worry.

when he starts to enjoy it and you are relaxed then you will make progress.

I would take him one week and the pup the following week, that way neither will get bored.

I've always seen ridgebacks being gone over at shows.
Different breed but my friend has a weimaraner about the same age and he would growl when gone over and even go to nip the judge. Otherwise he's a sweetheart and it was thought he was being protective over my friend. She took things slowly and also noticed that he didn't do it if someone else handled him so it was a definate protection thing. Brainless gives good advice, explain at the ringcraft and do a bit at a time not the full going over. Start with running and just being approached by someone else, then move onto contact and build it up that way.
Go back to ringcraft and take things slowly. If he still growls. Let someone handle him to see if he acts differently. If he's fine then you can assume he is being protective over you.
My friend is now getting her dog to shows with someone else handling him for a few months so he learns what is expected of him. Then she is going to try again with him. This was on the advice of a good behaviourist and so far so good.
This could be an option you could try.
Like previous reply has said some judges will kick you out the ring if your dog shows any agression towards them.

Thank you for all of your positive advice!

It makes me feel that if i give it another try it might be something we can get through. I really do think it might be his age as i said in my previous post, he is being assertive with our Lab at the moment. I hadn't thought about getting someone else to handle him to take away the protection excuse.

He is quite a sensitive dog and also quite 'babyish' so not as confident as, say, a GSD at the same age. I was comforted about his temperment by how he coped in a big crowd with lots of people touching his ridge as they went past, not a flicker of anything. Perhaps i'll take him to ringcraft this week as they are really good and don't make a 'thing' about his grumbling.

Thanks again, i feel inspired now!! :-)