Scenario :

A person is looking for a Lab pup and they have been recommended a localish breeder of working Labs and Springers.

They have been to look at the pups and the place looks in good order and the mother and pups look healthy. The Dam has been hip scored, the dams mother wasn't and so has the sire (was not there to be seen) all within the accepted avg for the breed. (No paper work has been seen).

The dogs are not KC registered.

Do not touch with a barge pole or get some local knowledge on what the breeders reputation is like in the shooting community maybe ?

Thanks

Lucy

id maybe ask if they could see some photos of prevoius offspring, & ask around abit.

do trhey want the dog to work or be a pet?

Our old lab was working bred and not KC registered; we never wanted to show or breed from her so that didn't matter. If the person's told that the sire and dam are hipscored I'd want to see copies of the certification.

What does this person want from their dog - work, show, breed or simply fulltime companion?

the fact that the breeder has been recommended is a good sign.id also ask to see the BVA paper work on the hips,or it will be on the mothers reg (her mothers score should be on there)

Hi Lucy, I would have suggested to get some more local knowledge and possibly another breeders opinion. Since the breeder has made the attempt at getting something right in the hipscoring side of things, IF the paperwork had been issued. These certificates must be seen by the potential purchaser,  Originals, not copies. 

However, after reading the little addition of NOT being KC Reg,   Personal opinion....Dont touch with a bargepole.....Why have the pups not been registered, if the breeder is hipscoring etc. 

Good working stock is registered, they cannot compete in trials etc without papers. Out of simple curiosity, I would ask some questions, but certainly would not purchase without KC reg AND proof of scores

If the owner wants to compete in trials the dog can be individually registered on the Activity Register.

"If the owner wants to compete in trials the dog can be individually registered on the Activity Register. "

Actually JG you are wrong.

Gundogs may not compete in KC licensed Working Tests or Field Trials UNLESS they have  been registered on the breed register.  Gundog and showing are the only two activities where participants MUST be registered on the Breed register rather than the Activity Register.

Lots of people have been desperately disappointed that they could not compete in these because they were not aware of the regulations prior to buying a non KC registered pup.....................

Yes I have already tasked the people to do what you have suggested. It is shame as they were going to adopt a pup but as they work shifts the rules say in this particular rescue they have to be at home all day which one of them will likely be but as they cannot guaranntee this then they are not able to adopt.

I just want to make sure they don't end up with a lame duck that may well end up in rescue itself if it all goes paired shaped !

There is no mention as well about any eye tests which rings another alarm bell :)

They so despaerately want a pup and I am trying my best to help them make the right chioce and not jump into anything they may later regret :)

Thanks all for your thoughts

Lucy
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A lot of working dogs are not registered with KC, KC is for show dogs or those who chose to register - you will search far, wide and no results for a real farmbred working BC with a registered pedigree, maybe a husbandry record of some sort, some working dogs can cost upwards of £20,000 and no pedigree.

With gundogs you have to have the pup registered on the KC Breed register to compete in field trials, the acitivity register is NOT acceptable (KC rules).  

'Any dog of any ancestry may be registered in the Activity Register (Working Trials and Obedience Register WTO). Any dog on this register may then compete in obedience, working trials, agility and flyball competitions licensed by the Kennel Club. It is not eligible to compete in field trials or gundog working tests.'

But people buy working dogs not just for trials etc, some actually work their dogs properly out in the gorse or field, and you dont need a kc registering for that!

Lucy I know it is some distance from you but Battersea have loads of gun dogs at their shelter in Windsor and will happily rehome to people who work so long as they can show that they have thought through how it will work out. i.e. someone to pop in middle of the day etc. IMHO they are by far the most sensible shelter, my BIL was trying to get a new collie but no one would rehome to them with a small child, Battersea said well we will put you all in a room and see what happens. All was OK and an adorable collie now has a super home. 

They are after a puppy rather than a grown up dog (but begs the question do labs ever grow up :D ) but I will let them know as I am sure they may have some in from time to time :)

Lucy
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Hi LJS,

Advise them to the try Gundogs UK website.  They have breeders who specialise on Working Labs on their site.  As we all know that with Labs unfortunately nothing is guarenteed.  Even with the right Eye tests and Hip scores something can still go wrong.  I know this personally, so advise your friends to do a lot of homework.  Go to local clubs and talk to people who might recommend someone.  Maybe even watch the dogs that someone might be thinking of mating?   Hope it works out.

That is a good idea as well. I am the same and have a bitch whose Grandfather is Drakeshead Garth and bot her parents had good hip scores and were eye tested and she has severe HD. It happens even when you do your homework !

Thanks

Lucy
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Lucy

One thing that I forgot to say is that if they work they may find a working bred dog a bit of a handful. Labs all tend to want to be involved in life, however most are happy to observe, not so some working bred. I know several from local keepers who are well bred but have been sold as work/pet. Most owners do not last too long as they need to be kept busy. If not they will find their own entertainment - need I say more? 

No more words necessary as have a prime example of one sitting right beside me ! :D

This was my thought too, in my very limited (one!) experience of working Labs - very hard work, despite all efforts from owners, although she did settle down much younger than I would have expected and is now a very sensible happy dog.

M.

Our lab was working bred and she was a delight. She was so eager to work she was incredibly quick to learn - she was carrying the newspaper home from the shop at 14 weeks, without a single tear in it! If we could have another like her ...

I didnt say they wernt fabulous, just that they need a purpose in life - the devil finds work for idle paws!

I couldn't agree more! They're real companions - you can't leave them unattended for long! :D :D

MMmmmm that is very true :)

I was away last night and Mike came down this morning to find the dog flap had been ripped off, the big container had been jumped into and all soil prompty dug out with muddy wet paw prints through out the house Needless to say the two monsters got a big telling off this morning :D

They still had that 'we are in deep do do' looks on their little chocolate faces :D :D

I told Mike it was because they missed me :D

Mine only does really bad things when you have shouted at her. Last week I was feeling off colour and she was being a pest bringing all of my shoes down. Shouted at her and she snuck off and ate an orthopedic insole :(

The Oxfordshire two are in the real bad books now :rolleyes:

I have taken them out for their nightly run around outside and they have run off and totally ignored me :(

It took me 10 mins to get them back and boy do they know they are in big trouble :D :D

LOL Why is ti that they only do that whe it is really cold and/or wet?? If they did it in the summer when the evenings are nice it wouldnt be no bad...or should that be so much fun??!