Can anyone help me with advise on public liabilty & horses. My friend helped another mutual friend excercise his P-Per today. However she fell off on the open moor, the horse bolted, jumped the cattle grid & landed on a cyclist causing him serious injuries:(  The horses owner is fully insured, there is no problem with that. however my friend (who was unhurt) is terrified that the liability might be hers, as she has no such insurance & was only exercising it as a favour to a busy friend!  This cyclist has a minimum of broken arm broken collarbone & broken pelvis...thats assuming no internal damage.....plus the special racing bike he was on which he told me cost over £4000 as i was bundling him into casualty!!! Anyone know if its the horse owner or the horse rider who is liable please?

Has she got household insurance as she may well have third party through them maybe ?

Might be worth asking :)

Lucy
xx

Hi Sam

I think this is a hard one to answer and one for a solicitor and the insurance company who can advise your friend and the owner what coverage they have in relation to this incident.
Public liability is a complex issue and they need to seek advice so they know what to expect.

Hope it all turns out ok and the cyclist makes a speedy recovery.

Regards
Stu

crikey - thats not good! I *think* the horse insurance should cover it - I think thats what the 3rd Party Liability bit is about... but I'm not sure. Mind if I cross post to a horse board for you?

Hello

Sorry to here about the accident.  I have 8 horses of my own, I think the insurance should cover it, as a horse is classed as an unpridictable(spelling) animal, I think it is just a case of wrong place wrong time.  However the insurance might only cover the horse when the owner is the rider?????might be worth checking the small print, I would get a specialized solicitor to deal with this. Tell her not to blame hereself accident DO happen.  i am sorry but I can not help you anymore.

best wishes
sheli

Sam,

It depends on the terms and conditions that are set out in the owner's insurance policy. I know that in some policies it states that anyone who is riding the horse, as long as they have the owners permission, is covered for third party liability.

Is the horse ok?

I used to ride other ppls horses for them and wasn't allowed to take them out of the outdoor school because the insurance cover was invalid if anyone other than the named rider was on the horse, bit like insurance for cars. But I suppose it depends on the level of insurance the owner has. However, I believe it comes back on the owner of the horse, not the rider. This was a good few years ago so it may have change since. Hope the horse is ok.

Depends on the wording of the policy holder's insurance.

One of the key areas that are excluded is if the horse was being hired or the rider was being paid to exercise the horse and of course the investigator will look at if the accident could have been avoided and if the owner/rider was guilty of any deliberate acts or omissions which might have contributed to the accident.

The fact that the owner was insured does not necessarily automatically exclude the rider from any liability..........

I would check the policy out fully but I suspect the policy that the horse owner has should cover it.

Put it this way and in an other simpler light if your dog is insured and he bites someone out walking the policy is designed for the dog not who was walking it.

You would need to check any exclusions for sure.

I think one needs to be very careful here and understand the difference between civil and criminal law, (just in case anyone reading this is unaware) particularly in relation to a dog  biting incident or even, depending on the circumstances the horse incident.

The owner or, if different, the person in charge of the animal can be found guilty of an offence if the dog injures a person.

Again, if you pay a dog walker to walk your dogs and your dog bites another person they can be pursued  by both courts................... hence why dog walkers should have insurance................

Agree with you Tohme :-) but I think or my interpretation of the advice needed by Sam is the liability as in who will pay the costs.  That is whay my answer is based on.

Criminally things go different everyday and the very very WHOLE picture needs looked at.

Oh forgot to add that again the dog walking example you mention is IF the dog walking is a business and this is a whole different area also.

Was the rider a member of BHS or NFU or AHS as they used to cover you 3rd party as part of the membership. Don't know if this still applies but i always used BHS memb as cover when i rode other peoples horses. the policy came through with all memb details. Hope this helps.

thanks everyone..yes the horse was ok in terms of damaging himself, but his behavour over last few weks may well mean he is due to go on the hound menu soon!!!!    Another thing that concerned me yesterday was that the police were not called. i know if a motorist has an accident involving a horse they legally have to report it to the police...but is a cyclist a motorist? Does anyone know please?

I will see if i can find out for you, have friends who have horses will ask and get back to you
karen

is it not an accident involving a person where the police have to be called?

The Road Traffic Act applies to all users:

If you are involved in an accident which causes damage or injury to any other person, vehicle, animal or property, you MUST

stop and give your own and the vehicle owner's name and address, and the registration number of the vehicle, to anyone having reasonable grounds for requiring them if you do not give your name and address at the time of the accident, report the accident to the police as soon as reasonably practicable, and in any case within 24 hours.
Law RTA 1988 sect 170

If another person is injured and you do not produce your insurance certificate at the time of the accident to a police officer or to anyone having reasonable grounds to request it, you MUST report the accident to the police as soon as possible and in any case within 24 hours
produce your insurance certificate for the police within seven days.

The horse owner arrived & gave his details to the cyclist but no one informed the police, which I fel they should have done.

I am curious, if the cyclist had serious injuries then surely an ambulance was called. Generally speaking if an ambulance is called to an RTA a police car follows...............

If this is not the case then there is still time to report this as it is the law to report all accidents which result in injury to people and/or domestic animals (cats are exempted).

it sounds as if the person that was injured, might not thought you could claim, any how, the person who owns the horse should have 3rd party insurance to be able to let someone else ride there horse, because of such accidents happening, as its the same as with a car, and the police should of been informed, but i have just been told that the insurance people are saying now, that if an accident involving a horse, " even say a car mounts a pavement and hit the horse" it will be the horses fault, not sure how they would work that one out. so it sounds as though the horse owner could be the one paying out if she didn't have 3rd party

Well if a claim IS made the claimant may well find that the fact that the law was not adhered to may well affect the outcome

Tohme, no he was insistant he wanted his girlfriend to take him, so we rang her & we both went to casualty with him....she was driving & I was keeping an eye on him for signs of concusion etc. I have to say that i wish I had not got involved now as i understand some "tales" have been told & the situation wasnt as clear cut as i was lead to believe. I am beginning to doubt the owner was insured & i have also found out that although it was the horses 1st time on the moor, my friend had agreed to train the horse for the owner. I doubt now that either have insurance. They are lying about what they say they were doing on the moor and I believe the cyclist is now unconcious so its all a mess. I am not going to lie to the police if I get questioned....its not up to me to lie for them & i am furious to be put in this invidious position! :(

That is awful :(

I would go to the police myself and report it :)

I have my own horses and ride other peoples, my own horse policys do not cover me to ride other peoples horses so I pay about £40 per year for a personal riders policy, this also covers me for handling other peoples horses! This has shown me that is definately worth having!!

Though I think in this case the horses insurance should cover it has the rider was given permission, however the owner could deny this if it came to court and it would be one word against another if it meant the owner taking responsiblity!!

Hope the horse is ok and this all works out....