i take my 14 week cocker spaniel out a million times a day to go for wee wee and each time it always takes her at least twenty minutes to go and thats only if we are walking the distance not just in the garden.when she does finally go she gets lots of praise and a treat which she now has learnt when she does go.sometimes though she will not go and as soon as we get in, does her business inside which i can understand that she is probably making the transition from inside to outside.i was just wondering though when it will click that going outside gets a treat and going inside she just gets ignored and i clean it up without a word.i 'm not sure what else to do to get her to understand that she must go outside.we live in the middle of nowhere so car journeys are at least an hour to anywhere i have known her to hold everything in for up to 6 hours!even though she has had plenty of walks in between,she will hold it in till we get home!is it something i am doing wrong?or shall i just wait because i know she still is very young.

Can you tell us a little bit more about her background?  Did she have access to outside when she was at her breeders or was she kept undercover and perhaps on paper?  How many different surfaces were there where she was kept?

Young puppies won't be happy to go either too close to the nest, or too far away from it, so she may not actually be wanting to go when on a walk for fear of advertising her presence to other dogs in an area she doesn't know.  You might also like to think about what you are offering as a reward, and is it of high enough value to your puppy to make her want to repeat the excercise to gain the reward?  Timing is also crucial, so she is offered the reward when she is in the act of doing it, rather than when she's finished, as she may then believe that to squat and then stand up is what you want.

HTH

Hello

I don't know how you did it when you got your puppy (I suppose you have her since she is 8 weeks old), but a puppy doesn't need plenty of walks.   Just take her outside as mentioned earlier (after food, play sessions and every hout in between), just stand there and wait.  Don't go anywhere.   If she hopefully performs say your phrase (well, some people use a wee wee command), when she has finished than give her praise and a treat.  Take her straight inside and for example play with her.   To strenghten the idea you could try and take her only out for toilet and not for walks as such or playtime.  Or you only offer her a little play outside after she has performed.  If she doesn't perform, take her back inside.  Is she crated at all???  Because a crate makes housetraining easier and quicker. 

Hope I can help a little

Bagpipe

Hi, think you are perhaps making to bigger a deal of the toilet training, watch for the signs that she wants to go, i.e. circling sniffing etc in the house, and of course after she eats and when she wakes up.  So that going to the loo is in her mind at the time you take her out, rather than hoping she will connect the out side with the loo just because she is out there, also a puppy as young as yours will not normally go to the loo away from home they can be 6 months before they will wee on strange ground, this of course is instint, the puppy will not to leave any messages for strangers to smell. until he is big enough to cope and a lot more sure of himself.  Hope that helps

when she came to us she was already paper trained and she also went outside in their garden a lot.she is used to all surfaces.she can be turning and sniffing and about to squat so i pick her up and take her outside and she wont go either then.she loves her treats and i only give her treats when she is going for a wee.i praise her whilst she is actually weeing then give her the treat straight after.if you are trying to toilet train then i have to make some deal about it unless i just let her p*ss and s**t everywhere she pleases.

I agree that you do have to make "some deal out of it" but I'm not sure that food treats are the way to crack housetraining although I'm prepared to be contradicted! Have you taught her a "performing" word or phrase? Only this does work especially if followed by lots and lots of verbal praise for being such a good dog. When you say she is "used to all surfaces", I suspect this is half the problem because this is the last thing you want because the only surface you want her to perform on is outside!

Paper training almost always means having to retrain a dog all over again and I'd be inclined to go back to basics with this pup being taken outside every half an hour, every time she wakes from a nap and after every mealtime as well as every time she looks even vaguely like she might need to go! Combine this with the consistent use of the same words or phrase each time and lots of verbal praise.

http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/2001/housetrain.htm

The above link may help, I always use food to house train my dogs and it works like a charm, also getting your dog, particularly a bitch, used to differing substrates is an excellent idea as many people have dogs that will only toilet at home or on a particular surface which then makes travelling etc problematic.

HTH

I would agree with roz regarding the treating with food after evacuating (I've got my tin hat on as well).  I have always gone wild on the praise when I get my puppies to perform.  Actualy weeing and pooing can be pleasurable in iself for the pup, at the very least a relief, and that combined with your obivious pleasure and praise should do the trick.

Only my opinion, it works for me.

I've never bothered with food treats either.  Puppies are fed that frequently that often only very tasty treats will interest them and these will generally be unsuitable to be fed in anything like the tiniest quantities in order not to unbalance the puppies overall intake, easily done when they wee so often :)
I find the novelty of lots of lovely praise from these new humans they are bonding with is incentive enough to try to please.

I'm using treats with my 2 pups, and it seems to be working very well. I tell them to 'have a wee', and they go straight off and do it then come running up for their treats! As for treats, well I just use bits of their dry food and they are more than happy with that- never known dogs go so mad for one tiny bit of kibble!!

Using their regular diet to reinforce this behaviour is obviously a very sensible idea rach1, none of my puppies have ever indicated that only very tasty treats will interest them (but perhaps that is because their daily diet IS very tasty) ;) :D

The frequency of urination will not have any bearing on unbalancing the puppies overall intake of food or nutrients.  :rolleyes:

It will if the treats are not similarly balanced, a dozen little treats in a day could make up quite a quantity for a small pup.
Given that you will often be toileting following a meal I don't think a piece of their ordinary dinner is going to be all that exciting no matter what it is if they've just had their fill of it :)  But if it works for you, fine, I've just never found it necessary, much easier to remember to take a little bit of praise with you on a cold winters night that dib into the treat box :)

A dozen little treats could make up a quite a quantity for a small pup........

Then you just cut down on the main diet,or as Rach suggest feed treats outside of the bowl it is not rocket science Isabel.........

Your dogs may "get their fill" but mine never seem to :D

Just lucky I guess ;)

Do you mean they are still hungry when you have fed them?
No its not rocket science but when you do feed your puppies to satiation it's maybe not going to be that interesting and not generally necessary anyway in my experience.

My dogs are ALWAYS hungry Isabel! :D

Have never managed to feed any of my pups to the point of satiation yet, thank goodness!

(Just like me)

  I suppose breeds vary but I am blanching at the thought of rearing a litter of cockers still hungry after every meal!
Wouldn't like it myself either.  Not to be confused with over feeding either, I eat my fill every meal but I have a BMI of 22 so I think I know how to achieve a satisfying diet without overdoing it.

hmm but we are not talking about rearing a litter here are we Isabel, we are talking about housetraining a puppy of over 7 weeks; a bit of a difference in environment and feeding regimes I think.............

No idea what my BMI is thank goodness! (but I can see myself in a full length mirror without backing out of the room) ROFLMAO

I don't think so, rearing goes on until they are adult surely.  I really can't get into this idea of a puppy hungry 24 hours a day, particularly a cocker puppy!, I can't imagine they would think it "lucky" that their meal was not fully satisfying but I do recognise not all breeds regard their bellies with as much interest :)

I did not actually say that it was THEY who were lucky Isabel, just me ;)

I know, that is why I emphasied the they 'cos I don't think they would share your sentiments :)  Not quite sure why it is lucky for you though unless you mean it means treats are effective but then, as I have said, I don't find treats necessary with this particular breed so I can keep my cockers happy and me happy.

Ditto! My dogs have always been willing to eat more! If I let them, they'd be waddling blimps. I try to avoid the 'one leetle waffer-theen meent' scenario! ;) :D

ROFLMAO JG, I am sure there are plenty of us out there; having had gundogs who believe one can NEVER eat too much! I think if I had left them to eat to "satiation" they would have exploded before now!!!!!!! :D :D :D

I am so lucky that my dogs LIVE to eat, not the other way around, as it makes training so much easier! ;)

Don't get me wrong if you offer something of a novelty nature they would never fail to show an interest (but that could lead us back into an area of unbalanced diet when the puppy is small) but I think if you are having cockers leave their food bowl ready to beg for more, which you will do if it is not satisfying enough, you haven't selected the right diet for a happy life for you or your cocker.

I've never used food as a reward for toilet training. Never crossed my mind to not sure why. Have made a note to myself to try it when I have my next puppy.

Anne

Stating the obvious here, as I tend to do, each owner and dog are different. If you're tuned into your dog then both of you will learn quickly.

I didn't used to use food rewards for house training, just lot's of praise and plenty of "outings" to the garden when they were young.

With my last 2 dogs I have used food rewards and found the whole process of housetraining a lot quicker. This of course may be co-incidental but it worked for me and them and if I'm ever insane enough to get another puppy I would use food rewards everytime.

We had a bitch once that refused to go anywhere except her own back garden and in hindsight it was us that was at fault. We didn't use food rewards then and didn't use the toilet command whenever we were out on a walk. As years went by it caused no end of problems as when we used to go and visit relatives or have a day out she would cross her legs until we got home. We stupidly thought that if she was desperate enough she would eventually go. How very wrong we were.

Gladly, my last bitch and the one that we have now, has absolutely no problems in going when ever the mood takes her. I put it down to education on my part and ignoring any accidents that happened in the home so that they are confident enough to go in other places.

No treats for mine just the praise and they will go on command any surface but prefer grass if poss.

I think using a command work is probably the biggest key to achieving a quickly trained, go anywhere dog.

I think that as long as we achieve the desired results, each using our own prefered, tried and trusted methods, then that's all that matters. :)