On Sautrday, my dog Cain will be with me no longer.  And with that, this will probably be my last thread on the forum.

There was an incident last night, that for my partner was the final straw.  For those that have been reading any of my threads, you will know that I have had oen ro two issues with the lad.  Because of those issues, we tended to take him to a heath for excercise,  Once we get there, we make certain that there are no others around, and certainly no others with dogs.  This has always worked well before.  Until last night.  We'd done the usual, checked that there were no other dogs, people, etc, and let him off for a run around.  At first he was bounding around, the way that he likes to do, but never straying far from us.

Then he dissapeared, as if in a puff of smoke..

We called him and called him, this is always enough to bring him back, if ever he is out of sight.  Not last night.

We searched and searched.  The heath was silent.  We could hear nothing.  Nothing at all.

Eventually, in the gloom, we found him.  He was with another dog.  It looked (initially), as if they were playing, but in truth, the fact is that Cain was encircling this other dog.  On seeing him, we called him back.  He ignored us.  We walked toward him, calling for him to come, and then it happened.  He clamped his jaws around this poor smaller dogs head, and shook him.  He had a firm grip on him, and would not let go.  Somehow, myself and my partner managed to get him to release, and the other dog vanished into the night. 

Naturally, my partner, and esp the little girl were hysterical.  I was ill inside, but for their sake could not show this.  We took Cain home, rang the breeder who we got him from, and like I say, as all good breeders do, he agreed to take him back.

He was surprised that it had come to this, as he swore that Cain used to be fine running with his other BT's.  Maybe he was just happy in that pack, I don't know.  All I know is that I did everything in my power, time, patience, advice, expense, to help the boy.  But in the end it was not enough.  If there was any consolation, it is that he did not turn on US when we got him off, and he did not kill the other dog, although I am sure he would have had we arrived a few minutes later.  It was not even a fight.  The other dog was totally unable to defend itself, it was an image that will remain with me forever, as will what I have to do this weekend..

I will never get another dog now.  I am sure that it was genetic in this dog, and genetics can go all the way back, but no, we cannot keep him.

There is nothing more I can do. 

It's been nice talking to you all these past few weeks.

Love,

Steve

:(

So sorry to hear this. :(

Me too....I really do feel for you Steve :-(

Steve

I feel so sad for you.  I have always gathered from your posts that you were so fond of Cain.  I don't know what else to say.  I am sorry.

Cheryl

I was v fond of cain.  I've never had much in my life, and as a child I was not even allowed to keep a hamster!  I wanted a BT for 30 years, and when I get one, it so happens that he has something wrong with his head, so to speak.

TBH, I feel totally depressed.

Thanks for your support and kindness

Steve

x

So sorry to read this.  Don't let it put you off getting another dog in the future, just give yourself sometime out.

When I had a bad experience with a dog in the past, I said never again.  But time does heal and I am so glad I did eventually have another who turned into a wonderful dog and restored my confidence.

Really sorry this was your first experience of owning a dog, dont let it scar you for life, just learn from this experience.
Hope it goes as smoothly as possible x

Steve, I am so sorry :(

Dee

So sorry perhaps he was simply the wrong dog of the wrong breed for you. I adore great Danes but I know they are not the breed for me & that my three breeds I have now plus possibly a couple of others are

Take time out & then have another think later on. You can always come on here & visit the websites of our dogs & of our adventures & misadventures

I thought I would never have the heart to have another BC after losing my boys last year but one year on I have my Rjj & he's a real little rascal !

Big cyber {{{{{HUGS}}}}}

Really sorry to hear about what happened, Steve, must have been an awful experience for you all.
We used to have a terrier with a very dodgy temperament and it did make our lives quite miserable in that we had to be constantly on our guard whenever we took him out.  But our next dog was, and still is, an absolute joy despite the fact that it took us a while to forget our fears and trust his good nature.
I do hope that, in time, you will feel ready to take the plunge again - good 'doggie' homes are too rare to be wasted !!
Thinking of you.
xx

Aww Steve please come on here dont loose touch..and give yourself time to get over Cain and then have a rethink regards getting another dog..take carexxxxxpolly

Steve, I really feel for you.  I have not entered into your threads, but have been following them closely.

Please do not give up on owning a dog, maybe for now, but at some time in the future there will be a dog out there for you.

Stay with us on the forum, just give youself time to grieve, we are all with you.

Take care
Kay
xx

I am SO sorry Steve. Know what, I have been through the same thing myself.  I mentioned it in another thread at some point. A Golden Retriever bitch, who acted much like this -very unusual for the breed. She attacked other dogs, badly, ones much bigggr and stronger than herself.  Eventually I too had to give up as she was just too dangerous to have around, and I had other dogs as well. My first thought was to home her as a single pet, as she was asolutely fine with people. But I contacted the breeder and like you were asked to bring her back. And this is the interesting part, which is really what I wanted to share. You said Cain was fine with the breeders' dogs.  It may well be that there he was in a pack with his own particular place. With my dog, she had been moved up a step so to speak as I had got a new puppy when my oldest dog had died, and it was when she no longer was at the bottom of the pack that she started to go around attacking other dogs. Once at traning club she turned round and bit a Rottweiler and there was blood everywhere.  Happeed too fast for me to do anything about it. Well anyway, she went back to the breeder. He had her mother and her grandmother, and so she ended up being at the bottom of the pack again. And she was fine. She stayed with the breeder for life and there were never any more problems. Maybe the outcome will be the same for Cain, and you will at least know that he's happy. There's no doubt about you doing the right thing.

Like others said, take time out. Think. Don't give up entirely on the thought of having a dog.  There's lots of breeds out there, maybe there is another that will suit you. Maybe one day you will feel ready.

Good luck.

Your story here fills me with some hope for him.  In my heart, I hope this is what happens.  Today, I have been unable to eat, work, or pretty much anything else. I am looking at my wee pic of me and him on my desk here, and my eyes are filling with tears.

Spoke to one of the trainers that I used before, and she thinks that he merely saw this other dog as a threat to us, and therefore, that is why he attacked it when we eventually found and called him.  Over protective.  There is no more that I can do.  Will break my heart too much to come on here after the weekend. 

Maybe one day I will be back,

Thanks for all the kind words and support

Steve

I'll be thinking of you too Steve - the hardest thing is to recognise that you can't give a dog what he needs, and you've now been forced into recognising that.  I'm sure his breeder will do their very best for him.

I'm so sorry to hear this, Steve, only you've put 110% and more into helping Cain. But don't deny yourself the delight of owning another dog when the pain lessens. It might sound a bit silly to put this in human terms but think of how many human relationships that don't work out for no other reason than that the two people concerned just weren't right for each other. The right dog, like the right person, is out there and one day you'll get together. The secret is not to give up hope even when everything seems hopeless.

best wishes,
roz

So sorry to hear your sad news Steve :( You have  had the courage to do what is best for Cain, by returning him to his breeder. As the others have said, don't say never, to owning another dog. Just give yourself some time, and a pat on the back for trying your best.

Sorry Steve You have tried your best. I had a dog 10 years ago which I had to give away due to severe behavioural problems and no help or support available as there is now. I thought that I could not bear to have another dog. Now I have a 7 month old westie and he is lovely, dont know how I managed without him! It takes time for the experience to recede enough to be ready again, so never say never!!

So sorry Steve.  Have written and deleted numerous phrases here but they all seemed trite. Will miss you and your enquiring mind if you decide to go and not return.

Best wishes for the future to you and yours,

Linda (aka Muttsinbrum)

So, so sorry to hear this.  As has been said.  Give yourself time to get over this.  Hugs.

Sarah.

Poor you.

I feel so sorry for you. i recently (april 05) had to rehome a dog of mine.  I tried everything possible but in the end it was too much . She was attacking my old dog and signs were starting to appaear that she was gonna start attacking my other dog (the top dog) . She was  staffy cross and fought to kill there was no doubt about it.  I had never seen a dog fight like that before ever, and there was no stoppping her, she would stop when she's had enough.

I do sympathise with you greatly, I can honestly say it is one of the hardest things I've had to do in my life.  It broke my heart.  I still shed a little tear for her every now and again, and despite the horrible fights I manager to remember the good things.  She went to a single dog household and her new owners adore her.  She's very happy with them.  Although you can't imagine it, it does get better, and you may find yourself wanting another dog. 

I'm so sorry Cain.It must have been a terrible experience and a hard decision to make.Dogs are very good at breaking our hearts....because we let them into them.
However please don't let this put you of dogs for life.You obviously have a lot to give a dog.Maybe an easier breed that has less of a tendancy to aggression?
Archer

As one door closes..... another ALWAYS opens.
Good luck Steve and a {{{{{BIG HUSKY HUG }}}}}}

Sorry, Steve.  Such a sad outcome for you after all the time and effort you have put in.  I hope Cain settles back in with his breeder and that you find a way through the heart-ache.

Best wishes.

really really sorry for you steve.

So sorry Steve, thinking of you and your family. :-( {{{{{{HUGS}}}}}} xxxx

Sorry to see you go Cain, :-(  you have been wonderful with all your posts.  Hope that you pop back sometime for a chat.

I can fully understand why you are taking Cain back to breeder, I would feel totally sick myself, especially with a little girl to consider. If you can't trust him, it is no good, unless he is on lead constantly!

Don't give up on dogs, there are lots of breeds out there, maybe go for a different breed of dog,  like a cocker spaniel, CKCS or Goldie, they're all great with dogs and children.

I wish you well.

P.S. Bet your back on this forum soon with another dog. :-)

Steve

I'm so sorry to hear what's happened and that you've had to part with Cain. You must be absolutely devastated. But at least he's gone back to his breeder and you know he is safe and with people and dogs he knows and loves. It's a happy ending in one sense for Cain at least, if not you.

Please don't deny yourself and your family the pleasure of owning a dog - and that's what it should be, a pleasure. It's nothing you have done and not your fault in any way. Nor is it Cain's fault he's like he is. You picked a very difficult breed for your first dog and you got him when he was 6 months old and was pretty set in his ways if he'd not been well socialized and taken out and about as a baby. When you're ready, I'm sure you'll get a dog who'll be everything you hoped he/she would be and bring a lot of joy into your life.

Really sorry to hear your news Steve, sending you best wishes

Lindsay
x

Sorry to hear this, it must be an awful decision to make. Am i right in thinking that you got him as an older dog from the breeder? I noticed the breeder only said that he was ok with his other BT's, could that mean he never actually met other dogs whilst he was with the breeders. Perhaps he was just unused to strange dogs. Chin up, its a terrible thing to happen, but don't write off having another dog yet, you may feel differently in a few years time.

Very sad news :(

I am sure with time you will be able to reconsider and get another dog and look forward to seeing you posting on here again soon:)

Lucy
xx

So sorry to hear your news :( I have followed your post about Cain and no-one could question your committment to him, so it's such a shame that it has come to this. FWIW, I think you are doing the right thing for Cain and for your family. As you have jut discovered, responsible dog ownerships meaans that, at some time or another, heartbreaking decisions have to be taken :(

You obviously have a lot to offer the right dog. Hope to see you back here in the not too distant future.

All the best

So sorry Steve
Please come back when you can
X

Steve, my heart goes to you it really does.  I also feel that it would be an awful shame if you didnt give it some time and then consider getting another because if I was a pup just about to leave my doggie family I would want to be going to you.  You have shown commitment and love to Cain and have done the toughest thing of knowing when you can do no more for him and ensuring he goes back to someone who will also give him 100%. You could give the right dog the life of riley if only your heart heals and allows you to do so.  :-) (((hugs)))

Steve, my thoughts are with you at this difficult time. We too have a dog (GSD) with the same temperament as yours. We have been to training classes with her as a pup and later to a behavourist. I use to walk her twice a day and she would come camping with us at weekends. At 6 months she suddenly started lunging and barking at other dogs and people. She has shown no improvement and is at present having 1 to 1 desensitising sessions. We bought her as a companion for me, looking forward to long walks and company for me as my oh works away from home Mon to Friday. She is now nearly 2 years old and I just can't walk her on my own as she is dog -dog agressive and I'm scared one day that I will not be able to hold on. She is super in the house and yard. Will do down/stays, sits,walk to heel in fact anything you wish. Outdoors she is known by all as a vicious dog. My heart breaks for her as now she can only go out at weekends when oh is at home. I too wonder wether we are doing the right thing by keeping her. Fortunateley all our children are grown up and have left home so at least we do not have this worry. We are still hoping beyond hope that the desensitisation will work. One day maybe you will be able to try again and give another dog a loving home.    

Sorry to read that you're also having problems, Gaby. I know how disappointing it is to look forward to getting a dog, making plans and imagining all the great times you're going to have, only to find that the reality is so very different.
I do wish you luck with all you're trying to do to improve your dog's behaviour. 
Best wishes
xx

Thanks Tyby. I admire Cain for being able to do the right thing. We both realise that our GSD's situation is far from ideal. I fear that at her age her behaviour is unlikely to change and the best situation for her would be to be with someone with a huge back garden. It has been suggested by the behaviourist that to have another dog (more dominant than she is) could be the answer. In our terraced house with no garden this would be impossible. Even if this did not work, an owner with a large garden could at least provide plenty of space to run and play. At present all I can do is play and train as best I can instead of walks. At weekends its a different matter. Hubby is home to walk with us and is strong enough for me to pass the lead over if another dog appears. When we visit our caravan (as often as we can) we take her up in the mountains in Wales where she can run and play in the stream. In this situation ( no people and no dogs) she has a lovely time. We just love her too much to be able to part with her, would she realy be happy without us? In our experience GSD's are a one man dog and do not take well to new owners.

One of my borzois has a similar temperament to Cain and Gaby's dogs. It is possible to manage them. He always wears a muzzle when leaving the garden. I use wire greyhound ones which allow him to breath during strenuous exercise. The plastic baskerville ones are also excellent for dogs with wider heads. He also wears a harness as I had a terrible experience where he fought his way out of a halti and collar to get after another dog. I walk him in empty, fully fenced farmers fields where he can run free every day. Sometimes I have to search around for ages to find one when livestock moves into our existing one. I would never let him off his lead anywhere that is not fenced although he has a very good recall (for a 'zoi!). I rarely walk him on pavements or in areas were we are likely to meet other people as it's too traumatic for both of us. He gets very upset, leaps around barking and growling and I end up covered in bruises where he's used me as a board to bounce off. I do understand Cain giving the dog back, unfortunately the breeder of my dog merely suggested he was put to sleep - no other advice or help :(   I've persevered and now he's 4 1/2 so I probably have another 3 years or so of skulking around avoiding people. I've had help from two behaviourists, and he has been neutered, but really he hasn't improved at all. Good luck Gaby with yours, with careful management you should be able to enjoy your dog albeit with some restrictions :)

Hi Chaumsong
If only it were possible to take Gabi to an open field every day. We live in the city and I do not drive. The only time she gets to stretch her legs is at weekends when o.h is at home. I too thought that a muzzle would be the answer, she has a Baskerville but this does not help me as I have to use a Dogmatic head collar to have any hope of restraining her when she takes off. I too have been covered in bruises when she bounces off me in her efforts to get to another dog.The muzzle and Dogmatic can't be used at the same time. Angela Stockdale says that it is not necessary to walk every day so long as you play and train to exercise the brain. She is quite calm in the house, no chewing or misbehaviour so I am presuming that she is not too unhappy with this regime.  

Hi Gaby, I understand completely what you mean about the dilemma of head collars and muzzles. Have you tried the mikki walkrite harness? I found I had a bit more control of my lad with this on. It's a difficult situation, IMO dogs need daily exercise... however they also accept whatever they get, and get used to any routine. It's not ideal but if you are spending lots of time playing and interacting with her then she's a lot better off than some dogs. Have you considered all options regarding exercising? Is there a stables near you that would let you use their indoor school etc? The other thing that comes to mind is a treadmill? Sorry if you think this is all a bit ridiculous, I spend ages finding the right places for my boy to exercise. Good Luck with your search :)

why wasnt your dog muzzled?

hindsight is a great thing.  Ironically, I had bought a muzzle, but it clearly stated it was not for strenious excercise, and that is what he got when he runs about.  Easy to look back and say that I should or could have done this or that..

Don't beat yourself up Cain, everyone makes mistakes. We were at one of Angela Stockdales rehabilitation sessions, she told us to bring our GSD out of the car. My husband asked her,"Shall I put on her muzzle", Angela said "NO", we did as we were told. Our GSD charged accross the field and attacked a spaniel who was muzzled and on lead. Now bear in mind that this was not our first session and Angela was well aware of her problems. So you see even the experts get it wrong sometimes.

Hey Cain, if you ever in the future need to muzzle, it may be best to get one of the baskerville ones - I presume yours was a Mikki cloth muzzle and you are quite right, they should never be used for exercise - I once saw a Samoyed in one on a hot day doing pavement walking - the owners were blissfully unaware the poor dog was being tortured. I couldn't stop to tell them due to traffic etc and when i looked for them, they had gone.

Best wishes
Lindsay
x

Steve,
I have been following your posts since you started posting about Cain and I had no advice to give as I had no relevant experience but I really feel for you just now and what you are going through.  Please never say never about getting another dog as they can bring such joy and always try to remember the positive things about your boy and don't feel guilty as you did everything you could to try to keep him with you. (((hugs)))

Steve,

I echo cheekychow's sentiments, I am not an experienced owner, so didn't join in with your discussions as I feel I'm not 'ready' to give advice, but I would like to say that you seem to have done all you can, and I think you have made the right decision, even if it was a heartbreaking one. Please don't rule out another dog in time, you have obviously got what it takes to care for a dog. (((hugs))) to Steve.

Claire

This exact thing happened to me in 1997. I took my Staffy back to her breeder after having her for three years.I felt sick at the attack even though I was fully aware of the nature of Staffs. I am now owned by a wonderful breed. Dont let this put you off dogs all together. I have to say it has somewhat coloured my attitude towards Staffs but I am toally immersed and competely in love with my chosen breed.
Good luck
Diane

I think you are doing the right thing, even though its heartbreaking.

I experienced something similar a few years ago, but the dog was PTS after attacking dogs and finally biting a child.....I now know that he was the wrong dog for me, and I wish I had followed my instincts when I first saw him and refused to take him home.

I said never again, but a year later got another dog (I learned a lot in that year) and he has settled in well and is totally far from perfect but is "safe" and my ideal dog.