Luke is 2 years old and entire. He lives with his mum and very rarely tries to "hump" her now.
On several occasions recently in parks I have come across bitches whose very pleasant owners seem to have very little control...one casually mentioned that one of her bitches was "probably just coming into season"....Now, if another owner should be irresponsible enough to let an in season bitch run free in the park....and Luke met her...and they got together... I would feel dreadful about it, although it would not be my fault. I hadn't intended to get him castrated - really shouldn't need to - but now I'm wondering, should he be done because of other owners' possible careless behaviour

Why wouldn't it be your fault as well?

I think the blame should be equally apportioned. The bitches owner because they are letting them run around un season and yours for letting your entire male run around off lead :)

But that's tantamount to saying no entire male should ever be off the lead in case there is an in season bitch around!

As a bitch owner I can't agree, andy owner that takes an in season bitch to an area where dogs are allowed off lead is being foolish and also most unkind to their bit5ch and the owners of any males who won't be privy to that information until their dog runs off after the bitch!

I would never dream of walking my girls in season anywhere but the street where al dogs are required to be on lead.

Likewise, when my bitch is in season she is confined to road walking and exercising on our own property. I wouldn't dream of taking her anywhere there may be off lead male dogs and certainly wouldn't expect all male dogs that were allowed off lead to be castrated.

I have to disagree, Melodysk.

A bitch is only in season for 2-3 weeks twice a year. If the owners can't be bothered keeping their girls on the lead and away from where they know there are going to be other dogs running loose for that time, they should have them spayed.

I wouldn't take either of my bitches out in season either ..however....if you run a dog offlead when it doesn't have good recall you are as resonsible I think

JMO :)

Strangely enough, when a male dog gets a whiff of the intoxicating perfume of a bitch in season, it's a bit like those body spray adverts you see on telly... the most reliable dog can forget all about recall when his other brain takes over. :D

I agree with Phoebe - it's the bitch's owner's responsibility to keep her safe when she's in season. :-)

No, I can't agree with that. You're saying that no entire dog should ever be allowed offlead just in case there's an in season bitch being allowed to flaunt herself under his nose?

Even when I owned entire bitches I knew it was my responsibility to keep them in purdah for a few weeks every year.

Nope that wasn't exactly what I meant, I don't think I expressed myself well .....but what the hell ...I am ill and I can't be bothered to explain further LOL

I would challenge even the most well trained dogs with 100% recall on regular days to respond so effectively when faced with a bitch in season.

My dogs has excellent recall except on the days when someone has walked the fields we do with a bitch in season.  He knows what that scent means.

If your entire male did try to 'hump' a bitch while out without a lead,couldn't you just pull him away and put his lead on before he got down to 'the business' Not that I am an expert on dogs mating but I have never seen a dog get straight on target

(Sorry for being so graphic but I couldn't find any nicer way of putting it :D)

Saying that if your recall is not up to much and he has run a fair distance away,he might get there by the time you reach him :rolleyes:

You've never seen mine then :D
Seriously, if my bitch was "caught" in the situation above, I would blame myself entirely.

If my dog got to a bitch, I'd be furious with the bitch owner for being so stupid!

Hi Waffy,

I have a bitch who smell delicious all year, i'd hate to think what it would be like when she is in season! we have had dogs appear from nowhere when Molly ISN'T in season and it's been very difficult to remove them from her rear end!!!

I daren't take my bitch out when she is in season.  I saw a little Norfolk Terrier run into our cul-de-sac with his lead trailing behind him and his elderly owner trying to run after him.  The elderly man soon caught him though once he got to my house and had to drag him from my gate.  We live so close to our park I imagine every dog off lead would follow a trail to our house if I took her out.

You'd be surprised how quick it can be.  Of course when you really want it to happen they faff around, but I have had a male literally walk up to a bitch and I thought he had changed his mind about mounting and they were in fact tied, result a litter of 9 pups, one of which is my  Jozi now 6 years old :D

Mel, I knew what you meant.  ( I think  ;-) )

You weren't talking about what you would do.. just that the poster suggested she may not be responsible for her off lead dog.   I think you were merely pointing out that both would be responsible as both owners are resonsible if the dogs are off leads. Am I right ;-)

Sorry to hear you not well.

I agree that it wouldn't be your fault if your dog tried to mate a bitch that was in season and running loose but I know with my bitch that probably coming into season is not the same as being in season or ready to mate..........we have a castrated male and she only gets a bit frisky with him 10 - 15 days into a full blown season and that is the ONLY time she would stand and let him mate her (he runs as fast as he can in the other direction because to let him know she is feeling ready she jumps on him.:))

So as an owner of a bitch and knowing the timings of when she was last in season you do know when she will probably be coming into season, give or take a month. I personally still allow my bitch to have off lead exercise up untill I see the evidence of a full blown season (I do check though when its about the right time) and as soon as she is in season she is confined to on lead road excercise usually about 11 at night to avoid any dog following us home. If I were to confine her to a lead on the fact that she is due into season it could possibly be another 4 - 6 weeks before she actually does coe into season then another 4 weeks of being in season and safely out the other end. So really if I were to confine her on the possibility of coming into season she could be confined to a lead for about 10 weeks which I personally do not think is fair.

Maybe the bitches owner knew from the timings of the last season that she my come into season any week now. Hope I've explained that right.:)

Edited to add that all of the above is on the fact that the bitches owner said PROBABLY coming into season not that she is definatley in season.:)

you cant expect a bitch to be on the lead if she is 'probably coming into season!' my bitch has dogs sniffing her for at least 2 weeks before season and i couldnt keep her on a lead all that time! if she goes on a lead in season then the male dogs just stay glued to her behind anyway. i usually walk when no one else is there if poss but if i see a strange dog i put her lead on- but unless the owner calls off their male dog it is still a pain. i think it is a joint responsibiliy- whats the point of putting my bitch on a lead if you cant shake the male dog and hes still a nuisance? i find if shes off the lead she sees the male dog off herself-problem solved, you only need to be carefull for the week that she is actually up for it- in my bitches case day 9-15.

Personally I don't let my girls off lead when coming into season and during the season.  Even before it starts properly some males pick up on the pre season and try to mate.  When in full season I avoid all the dog walks with a passion and stay to the pavement where most dogs are on lead anyway. 
A loose bitch is an accident waiting to happen, when is season, it makes you think the worst do they want their girls mate?

On the other hand.  My girl is hopefully in whelp now and the dog which regularly attacks her and my boy is still giving us trouble.  She is only off lead when I can see a long way ahead.  This boy dog off lead near any bitch is a nightmare and doesnt just go for the hump but for the jugular as well. 

Simple answer is although both sides bear responsibility if the dog is loose and gets onto a bitch on lead (only takes a minute guys if he gets lucky) I would be asking the dog owner to stump up for half the vet bill when I take her for the morning after injection.

Like most bitch owners I agree that our girls should only be walked round the street on a lead when in season.  I would consider it very unfair to males (and indeed to my dog) to let her loose in a public place.  Unfortunately where I live it seems to be the done thing for (usually male) owners to think it's clever to walk their dogs along roads off lead.  One poor dog was recently run over chasing after an in season bitch whose owner was walking her on lead - he broke his foot but it could have been a lot worse.  He is still walked off lead incidentally.

I never walk my girl when she is in season but at the same time if a male dog gets a whiff of a female in heat he will go to any lenght to mate with her including scaling a fence so even if someone did take there female out and she was on a lead and your male wasnt if he was to be persistent and both you and the other owner were trying to stop him he could get aggressive even if he isnt normally an agressive dog so in heat females really shouldnt be taken anywhere but maybe your male should just be walked on a lead and only allowed of his lead in your own backyard or if there are no other dogs around but as soon as another dog appears you should probably put him back on
if the female was on a lead and he still mated her even with people interfering trying to stop him than yes this would then be your fault

but as i said i would never let my female go for walks or anywhere but from my home to the studs home when she is in heat but some people still like to walk there dogs particularly if it is a very active dog that needs alot of excercise

So....isn't this exactly why Dogs Trust etc so strongly recommend castration?

i walked my in season bitch this morning- at a time when normally no one is there. a young golden retriever came bounding up so i put elly on the lead. next minute the retriever is humping my leg and when the owner tried to pull him off me he bared his teeth and growled at her! its  a good job im not afraid of dogs as  a snarling retriever in your face could be quite scary! he eventually let go  and sat  down and the owner didnt even thank him for sitting and still didnt put him on  a lead! we managed to get to the car unmolested but as i got indoors i thought 'phew' walking this dog in heat is dangerous!

Hi All
A couple of shooting seasons ago I was picking up at an estate where the father and brother-in-law are the keepers. My b-i-l has a gorgeous young entire big red Lab dog with all his health checks etc. After one of the drives he couldn't find his dog and eventually found him tied with one of the gun's bitches (Lab) in a bush! This gun knew that his bitch was well in season and brought her anyway. To make matters worse his bitch was nearly 10 and instead of being horrified the gun was delighted that such a fine big dog had covered her!!!!! My brother-in-law had several people waiting to use his dog at stud but he was not prepared to allow this until the shooting season was over as he didn't want his dog to get all silly and loved up - which of course is exactly what happened after this incident and he was a complete prat for the next month or so. (The dog - not the b-i-l!)

Carene,
      If you wish to keep your Luke intact that is your perogative.  Just train him on recall and there are also ways to keep him from reacting foolishly when near a dog in season.  Ask the experts on the exchange who show, what they do to keep their dogs focussed.Positive reinforcement and recall really help.  When you have a dog devoted to you they will recall 100% and only try to please you even if it goes against their natural instincts ;)!