The kennel club - What is the point of having Kennel Club registered dogs when they do not care who bad breeders are.

Some of you may already know that I purchased a puppy from a breeder who advertised himself to be something he is not, that my puppy has been very ill from the second day of having him that I have contacted him saying about how ill my pup was and he didn't care.

When we purchased our pup he promised to send us the KC registration papers along with a receipt of purchase to this day he has not done this and we have had to contact trading standards, local authorities and The Kennel Club.

Today I was contacted by the Kennel Club I was informed that my pups sibling has been registered yet my pup has not, that his sibling pup has a different date of birth from my pup, that my puppy is in fact one month older this does explain why two vets all along have said he is a lot older than what the documentation this breeder gave me (the kennel club was sent the documentation) and that the Kennel Club can not do anything about this breeder even when shown proof, they do not have a registry that lists bad breeders, they are useless.... so can someone tell me what do they actually do to protect dogs and their new owners as far as I can see its nothing.

Since I'm venting I will move onto the local authorities now I contacted them a few weeks after my pup started getting ill I sent them all documentation and diary of my pups illness along with veterinary receipts. I received no contact with what was going on I had to contact them myself and was told to contact the breeder when I did so all I got was a mouthful of venom on the phone, I contacted the local authorities and told them and all I got was they will look into this. I am constantly contacting them with new evidence against this breeder I even got a direct telephone number and name so that they could contact kennel club as proof they have not registered my puppy and that my pups date of birth is completely different date that's on the pedigree certificate but do they care no they do not. They know all about this breeder they told me themselves they have received many complaints so why do they do nothing....!!

So I contacted a local councillor this councillor contacts the local authorities and now I'm being told they are awaiting more information from me, I have gave them everything it's me that's been contacting them -this stinks!! Now I have been given advice to write everything down take copies and send by recorded delivery to stop the confusion - Yeah right!! I've been doing this all along.

Trading standards have been shown proof so now I have to write down all my dealings with this breeder -  another letter!!

So it looks like I'm going to get no where, seems no one cares and that bad breeders can get away with everything and no ones seems to care for the dogs WHAT ABOUT THE DOGS!!

All I seem to do is write letters, emails and make phone calls and no one listens,  no one cares it's like if we ignore this silly woman she will give up and go away. (AINT GONNA HAPPEN I'M A STUBOURN HEFFA)

This is so making me very, very angry I refuse to give in, I've got to believe someone cares some ones got to!! It's time people did the job they where employed to do, it's time to protect the consumer and the dogs.
The mood I'm in now I really want to post on every internet forums and out this breeder by telling name address and every trick this person uses to fool people but I know I can not as no doubt I'm the one that will get into trouble.

So what's in store for me - more phone calls!! More letters!!

I'm so rambling I do apologise but I needed to vent. Is there anyone who could offer me any advice/information that could help me on this matter it would be so appreciated.

I would contact the breed club for the breed involced.  It is bad breeders and puppy farmers that are the main reason for breed rescues worklocad so they and the breed clubs will be more than willing to highlight and try to put a spoke in the works and expose such people.  With their backing you may find the authorities and Kennel Club more able to listen, especially if this breeders dealings are known to them from the past.

It might not seem like it buy the Kennel club can and do take disciplinary action agains peple abusing the Kennel Club registration system if things can be proved.  You may have to take ciicl action though before they can do so.

I contacted one breed club and they didn't want to know as this breeder is not registered. This breeder is a breeder of another breeds of dog and judges them I know if I contact them they wouldn't listen. But I will contact my breed of dog's breed club to say what they say.

I'm sorry to hear about all your problems Katt - unfortunately it highlights what we keep saying here to people asking about buying puppies - go to the Breed Society who will have a list of the REPUTABLE breeders of your chosen breed.

I do hope you manage to get this guy tied up in red tape though ...... have you thought about letting the Inland REvenue know that he has a source of income in breeding ???????

Margot

I know I was a silly fool we thought we researched enough now we know we didn't do enough research :(

Now I didn't think about contacting the Inland Revenue, This breeder does hold a license with the local authorities I will contact Inland Revenue in the morning and put some spanners in the works :) thanku Lokismum i never thought about doing this.

It's Caveat Emptor unfortunately & sadly many people learn like you have through a bad experience

The Kennel Club is really a private club that running a dog registry & dog activities. It can refuse to register dogs from parents that fail DNA tests(being brought in for Irish Setters), but otherwise they will still register dogs from parents that have failed health tests like CEA in the Collie breeds however they do record these tests on the registration certificates

It behoves the buyer to see the relevant certificates before buying the puppy & that they get a letter from the breeder stating that the KC registrations have been applied for if the KC certificates are not available. Some of breeders now DNA profile their puppies before they leave them & many will tattoo or chip so the puppy can be identified as well.

Until the Law regarding breeding dogs is changed to prevent just anyone buying a bitch & breeding from it there will be people making money from dogs & breeders like the one who bred your puppy

Moonmaiden the only reason we agreed to allowing this breeder to send the documentation and receipt of purchase was because he said his son owned the kennels and that he would have to do the necessary paper work.

This kennel was advertised to as a quarantine and boarding kennel that they held a license with local authority for breeding. That this breeder was a judge on dogs and is well known. It turns out this breeder does not hold a license for a quarantine kennel anymore yet this breeder still hold licensees for boarding and breeding and still is a dog judge.

We really thought we could trust him :(

The laws need to be changed its the poor animals that suffer :(

What I find annoying with the K.C is they set all the guidelines for health tests but still allow people to register puppies whose parents have not met those guidelines i.e. registering puppies from dams & sires whose hip scores are well above the average for it's particular breed, I suppose that after all they are like a lot of organisations: just a business and there to make money.

I don't think that you are wasting your time Katt, things do get done, but can take an awfully long time. Record and Photocopy everything. With the information you have given, I would have felt 90% safe with this breeder, but I would never take a dog without the papers given there and then. For your puppy to be ill, just 2 days after purchase and the breeder not being interested is terrible.

You sound to have a pup from a previous litter! I do not understand why the breeder is so unhelpful, it does not sound like a tinpot organisation, to be a KC reg breeder, dog judge, boarding and quarantine kennel makes no sense not to be legitimate.  No wonder you are so mad, if you can not trust a high standing place such as this, who can you trust???

You are going to have to be patient, you have phoned and sent all the letters you can now, so sit back for a while and wait for your case to be heard. Contact every 2 weeks, if you hear nothing. It will get looked into eventually...............

Good Luck, hope the pup is ok now.

Lyssa We actually thought this breeder was an honest gentleman he came across this way face to face but sadly we have found out he is not. We went to his premises it looked well run and very clean we didn't expect him to treat us in this way. If he told us our pups correct age we would have still have purchased him, we fell in love with our little ones nature/character. When we contacted local authorities, trading standards and Kennel Club we have not once asked for monies from anyone we have only asked for our receipt of purchase and KC Registration papers, so we do not understand why this breeder will not do so

What angers me just now is this breeder's license is up for renewal at the end of this year and it seems some do not care and others are dragging there feet, I would hate for someone else to go through what we have. What made me snap today was when the councillor told me what local authorities said, I have did all the work and sent copies of everything contacted them by phone gave them the information it was as if they where blaming me, I m doing there job for them so were sitting here wondering what is going on so from now on everything will be sent by registered post and email.

We all just feel very frustrated and angry and feel helpless :(

which part of the country are you in Katt?

Sam I am in Hertfordshire

Just a thought. Could your pup have been from a previous litter and returned to the breeder because of health issues? This may be the reason for the breeder not having the registration documents.

How many breeding dogs does he have? How do you know which dogs are the parents of your pup? Could you insist on DNA testing to determine the parentage? I am amazed the Kennel Club are being so unhelpful. Did you actually see the supposed parents and was your pup in with other pups or on his own?

Sorry for all the questions.

How is the little mite doing at the moment?

Regards
Karen

Pedlee at the kennels there was many German shepherds, 2 puppy west highland terriers and 1 female Westie he said was the mother he advertised this place as a quarantine/boarding kennels and licensed breeder so we fully expected many dogs to be there. He didn't invite me to the other part of the kennels. He gave me a pedigree certificate that has Sire & Dam's KC registration numbers on it also had grandparent, great grandparent's reg numbers a fully family tree this also states my pups D.O.B. This breeder has registered our pups sister yet not mines and both have two different D.O.B, I was informed by the kennel club he did this last week.

Many people have said they believe the reason they sold him to us was due to his testicles not being descended so no good for breeding from, we have our suspicions he was ill and they knew this but we have no proof.

Pedlee little one is doing much better we have to worm him ever two weeks, I have finally got him to eat I cook everything for him, he no longer does 18 stools a day we are down to five and they are slowly taking shape. His skin is still red raw wish he would stop the chewing he no longer sleep for 12 hours and is more active, he is still on medication but it looks like we are getting there.

Katt I've PM'd you.

I don't know if you would be able to use Aloe Vera products but they are very good for skin and gastro problems. Might be worth asking your vet.

I will ask the vet about Aloe Vera  I would rather he used natural products to aid his recovery but knowing my luck he would become alergic to it but worth a try the less artificial products in his body the better in my opinion. 

Does he actually judge Westies?  I know that some folk breed a common and more saleable breed to supplement their keeping a rarer (and not so prolific) breed.

Val no he does not Judge Westies this maybe what the breeder is doing.

Was your pup advertised as KC registered? in which case you would have a case under trades descriptions legislation. I am not sure what the KC could do in this case, as the pup has not been registered - they could take action if the pup had been registered with false details then they would have a case. They could perhaps look at him as a judge and his honesty, but that would depend on what you have in writing from him about the parents and birth date of your pup - but a rule 42 case could be possible - you need to speak to someone fairly senior on the KC staff about this.What breed are we talking about and what illness did the pup develop? Taking this breeder to court is probably your best bet, and would result in him gaining lots of bad publicity - I suspect if the kennel is a registered boarding kennel then the inland revenue will receive annual returns.

bazb When we first contacted this breeder his wife informed us they had a litter of 9 weeks west highland terriers when asked about KC registration she said no they where not I said we wasn't interested his wife then told me about two 11 week old puppies (west highland terriers) that where soon to be registered I asked if we could see them. So yes they where advertised to us as soon to be KC Registered dogs.

When we arrived at kennels he showed us a male and female pup we requested to see the male pup as this is what we all wanted. He agreed to send me the KC registration paper work by post in front of two witnesses. I have a pedigree certificate with D.O.B and a family tree with all KC registration numbers on. He had a sever infestation of worms that the vet has said they have not seen anything like had in many years that caused vomiting and diarrhoea. He has recurring Gastroenteritis disease, he has problems with his stomach and food is not absorbing in the correct way (I can not remember the name the vet named his stomach problems) he also has many allergies and seems to become allergic to near everything due to his immunity being so low. The vet believes he is like this due to the worm infestation also being told to put him onto a food he had never actually eaten before.

bazb could u tell me what rule 42 is?

I would be tempted to contact the two dog papers to see if they are interested in the story. I'm sure they would be if he is a judge.

Why would a respected breeder have a litter of unregistered pups? Yet 2 pups from another litter that would be registered. It all sounds very odd! I wonder if he actually owns the female (the supposed mum). Is there a common affix on the dams side of the pedigree? (Don't actually state it on the forum).

I wonder if he just buys in pups to sell to supplement the boarding income and they aren't bred by him at all.

Trouble is the Kennel Club can't so anything unless he cheats the registraion process which idf the pup isn't registered he hasn't.  Only if action is taken against him by trading standards or teh postercan action be taken against him as he will ahve been convicted of simething bringing the canine world into disrepute.  It is proven not said to e a bad egg that is the point ehre.

The local authority on the other hand has a legal obligation to deal with infringements and complaints to so with the licenses they issue to this person.

Unfortunately selling unregistered pups, puppy farming etc etc are perfectly legal if immoral and abhorent practices to most dog lovers.

Brainless as far as we know he does not buy in pups to sell on he does all breeding on his premises this is what we have been told by local authorities the Dam and mother of that Dam have both got the kennels names with another name added at end.

He was prosecuted by D.E.F.R.A. over two years ago for breaking health and safety laws and no long has a license for a quarantine kennel but for whatever reasons he believes he has this breeder and his wife advertised this property to us as one. 

It's like banging your head against a brick wall with the local authorities were in hope trading standards will be able to help sort this guy out.

Pedlee I did question why one litter was not being KC Reg his wife replied that normally they only sells pets not breeding dogs and didn't want his pups to get into the wrong hands that on occasions he did sell KC Reg dogs only if he felt those people purchasing where not going to breed them. They both came across very genuine with all they told us.

Pedlee he is the owner of the Dam, the Dam's name has the kennels name with another name at the end.

I contacted the England Breed Society there is nothing they can do but take this breeders name and address and if anyone contacts them they can warn them of.

katt if this breeder has his kennel name at the front of the dame's name and another kennel name at the end then it sounds to me that he might not own the dam, but sold her on breeding terms.
I mentioned reg 42 - which is basically bringing dog shopwing etc into disrepute. But for this there needs to be proof, the fact that we dont like the sound of the way this kennels is operated isnt enough to do anything.
Can I ask why you want the dog to be KC registered? This wife told you these pups were soon to be registered, is there anything in writing? Do you know how many pups there were in that litter and how many were registered?
Dont see what the dog press could do about this without proof that would stand up in court.
You say the pup's diet was changed, on whose advice did that happen?
I have huge sympathy for you Katt but just dont know what the KC, Council or breed club could actually do. I think you might need to take legal action yourself.

bazb I think I didn't explain myself correctly this last name isn't a kennel name only the first name I will pm you as I don't think I will be allowed to post it on the forum.

We wanted a KC registered dog as everyone told us this was the way to go as reputable breeders make sure they stick to guide lines when breeding. When we first looked into purchasing a puppy this is what the kennel club told us to do.

The breeder did not give me anything in writing as he said at the time his son was owner of kennels and he couldn't do this and promised to get him to forward us them, we where stupid enough to believed him, we soon found out from the local authorities that the guy who sold us our pup was in fact the owner of the pup and kennels. The breeder said two pups that this was the dam's first litter, he has only registers one of the pups and it's not my pup. This breeder told us our puppy was on pedigree puppy complete dry food we purchased this and gave it to him, he had one stool when he arrived at our house this was dark brown in colour in the morning when he had a stool it was light brown in colour and stayed this way. We have been told by the local authorities that they believe he was never on this food as no food to that name they could see on the premises.

Unfortunately just because a litter is registered with the KC does not indicate quality or reputation.

Best to go to members of breed clubs who MUST adhere to their codes of conduct etc.

tohme he is a member of a breed council it maybe not the same breed as my dog but it is a breed council. Because he is a member of a breed council we trusted him.

We now know that if a litter is registered with the KC it does not indicate quality or reputation we acutely thought it did as when we first looked into purchasing a dog we read the website and telephoned them and maybe we got it wrong but this was implied to us.

see what you mean katt from yr pm. I just dont know what the KC or Council could do to help you, I really think you need to take legal advise if you want some recourse, but in the meantimme hope that yer pup gets better

katt

google is a wonderful thing, just sent you a pm - think the office of fair trading would be v interested as this place has 'form'

Katt, if you want to know of a v good (reward based) trainer in Hertfordshire, PM me.

yes please onetwothree i will pm you now.

Hi Katt

Your story makes me both sad and angry. I know that the authorities are like in Herts as I live there too, but I really wanted to let you know that my thoughts are with you. Have you thought about civil action? Even a letter sent registered post by a solicitor may possibly get this guy to respond. When I got my pup, I looked at several ads and learnt from here not to touch one that bred so many breeds.

I hope your puppy makes a speedy recovery not that he has found a loving home.

All the best
Sarah

I wish I found this website when we first started looking for a puppy Sarah it may have saved us a lot of heartache but saying that our little boy is so adorable and loving we wouldn't be parted from him we believe the man above sent him to us.

I was initially told to let the local authorities deal with it. I am in contacted with trading standards now and they are investigating not sure if they will proceed with a prosecution but worth a try if nothing happens with them then we will take civil action.

Thank you for you kind words Sarah
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