i breed australian red cattle dogs so all of my research is done on my breed but i was reading on here that white boxers should never be bred so im curious as to why is that

They have a genetic link to unilateral & bi lateral deafness like so many other white dogs

White puppies crop up in litters of coloured puppies, most often when the parents have a high proportion of white markings. They have a higher incidence of deafness than their coloured borthers and sisters, and should be BAER hearing tested prior to being sold for a lower price.

It is true that breeding a white bitch with a white dog is very much frowned upon because the puppies will be predominantly white and therefor at this increased risk of an impotant health issue, (deafness). The Boxer breed standard does not accept the white colour.

Dawn R.

I breathed a sigh of relief when my puppies arrived as none of them were white!  Not because I wouldn't be able to register but because of the health issues that White Boxers can have!; however I do think that White Boxers are lovely dogs to look at and not all of them are deaf or have health probs, they can be just as fit as a Red or Brindle Boxer.

I know a wonderful white boxer called dylan and he has a red patch over one eye, my friend has been asked many times to put him to there bitch, of all coloured boxers and my friend always refuses as she knows the implications but is suprised at lax these boxer owners are!

Hi people who are in boxers care about the breed and also are well aware of the health problems some white boxers  have or prone to ie  deafness. I have been lucky not to have any white boxer puppies in my litters. with my last litter i had several people wanting a white boxer.. i had a white boxer for almost 9yrs she had no health issues and was no different to my red and white bitch and my flashy brindle.there is a very high percentage of whites being deaf compared to their coloured litter mates... but as i say a boxer is a boxer regardless of colour.
most breeders in the uk do not kc register their white puppies, and at the moment white boxers are just as desirable as their litter sibblings... I adore white boxers and if any was to born in a litter of mine i would find him/her a wonderful home....

do you ever mate your bitches with a white dog thugh cause the post i read from way way way back when where a lady wanted to breed her to white boxers togeather and apparently if you breed with a white you have a high chance of a white ones and that was what made ppl angry

hi in answer to your question, no i would never breed from a white. nor would i ever consider doing so/

I also would never consider breeding white boxers

A few articles here with info about whites :)

http://www.euro-boxer.com/pages/profiles/boxer_study/boxer_white.html

http://www.acbr.info/white_boxers.php

http://www.dog-rescue.org.uk/w-b2.htm

Quite apart from the deafness issue,at the present time it is not possible to responsibly breed white boxers(as one or both of the parents).A white boxer bred with another white will produce white pups which have a high chance of being deaf.There are too many hearing boxers in rescue finding it hard to be rehomed,the deaf ones have an even harder time :(

Obviously mating white to white is out, but if you have a white that is fantastic otherwise (type, conformation, temperament, etc), if you mate that dog to a plain boxer then you will get a litter with no whites in, all flashy puppies. So would that be accepted, or is that frowned upon.

Still frowned upon, because of the risk of passing on the deafness gene. Even mating flashy to flashy carries a risk. :(

This article explains it very well..

http://www.euro-boxer.com/pages/profiles/boxer_study/boxer_white.html

What an interesting article

Im not an expert on Boxers and would never claim to be, they are not even my breed however my uncle has them and has had them for years.  There is always this "thing" about the high percentage of white puppies being born deaf or with sight problems.  There are some yes but not the high percentage that there is made out to be.  If you are involved with rescue Boxers you would get a better insight into this issue.  Boxers make wonderful pets and companions there are many variations of the reds, fawns, [tans] brindles [light and dark] so why would anyone set out deliberately to breed white Boxers which are not KC accepted nor can you show them.  There are enough Boxers [any colour] ending up in rescue establishments mostly through no fault of their own.

My opinion is that if you have a white Boxer keep him  or her as a companion and have them neutered.  You can do obedience or agility etc with them just like any other dog.  Enjoy your dog and if you feel you really want to breed dogs then go to a reputable breeder and get a nice coloured Boxer bitch.  However anyone thinking of breeding dogs should look carefully at the statistics of their chosen breed [not just Boxers] that end up in rescue and its a good idea to visit one of these rescue centres. 

Neeva

There is no reason why white boxers couldn't be bred from. As long as the partner is plain (and not just flashy with minimal white markings, which may be mistaken for plain) all puppies will be flashy and I cannot think of any possible reason why they should be more sick than flashy animals from coloured parents. Unfortunatelly, vast majority of breeders has very limited knowledge and understanding of science, namely biology, genetics and medicine. It is easier to take for granted and repeat what they heard from others than to try to understand the subject and find evidence (ie a proper study) to confirm these claims. Then they couldn't say, for example, that white boxers carry "deaf gene" if the absence of pigment cells (due to the colour of the coat) in certain structure of the inner ear is recognized to be the cause of deafness in white boxers. And if they are so concerned about this gene, why do they breed from flashy dogs with one gene for white? When Germans banned white boxers from breeding, there was at least general preference of plain dogs, while now everybody preferes the flashy ones. Undoubtedly, there is a higher incidence of deafness among white boxers than in coloured population. Then we have to ask, if it is ethical to breed (produce) white puppies. In such a case all of us, who mate flashy to flashy, are guilty of this offence.

>Then we have to ask, if it is ethical to breed (produce) white puppies. In such a case all of us, who mate flashy to flashy, are guilty of this offence.

IMO it's unethical deliberately to risk breeding handicapped puppies. I'm sure most people would frown upon a dog and bitch, both with high hip-scores, being mated together. In breeds with a higher risk of hereditary deafness, testing of sire and dam is just as important as hip-scoring. As long as both parents have been BAER tested and are proven to have bilateral hearing, the breeder can be shown to have minimised the risk. Taking a chance, by breeding untested flashy to untested flashy, is playing Russian roulette with the health of the offspring.

BAER testing for breeding purposes can bring useful results only if done on white dogs (like Dalmatians). Coloured dogs should not be affected by this form of deafness and, therefore, this test will not give any indication about the risk to their white offspring. By the way, I am not aware of any breeder of Boxers screening his/her breeding stock for this condition.

It's also vital with white boxers - and you're the one who said:

>There is no reason why white boxers couldn't be bred from.

As I'm sure you're aware, animals can be unilaterally deaf but give no outward sign of the problem. As for boxer breeders not screening - that's a pity. :( Many bull terrier breeders do - even their coloured animals.

Hi its not only unethical deliberately to risk breeding handicapped puppies its very irresponsible. as ive already said in a earlier post i have been very lucky with my litters not to have any white boxer puppies.I owned a beautiful white boxer bitch from excellent parentage but under no circumstances was i ever going to breed from her, she was a pet and remained a much loved dog till the day we lost her.There is a big enough gene pool out there for boxer breeders to use on their coloured dogs, without adding to more health problems by breeding from a white boxer. but i must say at the moment white boxers are becoming more sought after but as a breeder and lover of all boxers it still doesnt give me the right to bring handicapped puppies into the world when rescues up and down the country are full of healthy dogs....

Yes, I am well aware that white Boxers can be unilaterally or bilaterally deaf or have normal hearing on both sides. But I can only repeat again that this form of deafness affects only dogs with white coat and , unlike in the case of Dalmatians, one has to question usefulness of BAER testing for coloured dogs. Having said that, it is interesting to hear that some Bullterrier breeders screen all their dogs and if there is a reliable collection of data in place I would really like to know what the results are, particularly in relation to coloured animals with white offspring.
I can only agree with some of the contributions that the crucial problem of breeding from white Boxers (or avoiding white puppies in a litter) would be to find a plain dog of required qualities.

The main reason they wouldn't be used for breeding is that in general terms the dogs shown are the ones bred from, and the chances are that there woudl be very few plain mates to find for the white aanimal even if it had no problems with it's hearing.

I used to breed English Rabbits.  They are required to have a pattern of coloured spots in a row from the nape of neck and forming a rosette on the haunches, have noses marked in colour in shape of a butterfly, circles around the eyes and coloured e4ars with a stripe down their backt to end of their tail.

Thsi pattern does not breed true 100%.  when two patterned animals are mated you will get half patterned offspring, 1/4 self coloured (the colour of the markings which in my case was chocoloate) and 1/4 what were termed charlies, all white with just the odd spot of colour on ears and often a moustache of colour.

Theoretically you would get 100% marked offspring if you mated a self to a charlie, but the patterning was very hit and miss, and ofcourse once you had yoru 100% marked offspring they still woudln't breed true for the markings.  In practice as with the show dogs you used your best ones for show and then breeding.

Interestingly when the bobtail Boxer experiment was being conducted by Bruce Cattanagh, one of his early bobtailed bitches was white, but she was not eligible for show anyway so was used as she had the traits being bred for,a nd was mated to a plain partner and woudl ahve been screened for the health issues.

The problem is of course the whites ate not show quality and are unlikely to be wanted for breeding show quality offspring as they probably have better coloured siblings that can be used.  If they were used with the predominatly flashy partners available even more whites woudl be produced, and of course mating white to white woudl be iressponsible as it would increase the number of potentially defective offspring.

Re the Bull Terriers:
On average 1 in 6 white Bull Terriers are deaf, while around 1 in 20 coloured Bull Terriers are deaf.
Deaf being bi or uni.
Even solids have been known to be completely deaf.
Julia at the AHCT who tests my lot says that puppies with coloured ears are less lightly to be deaf, also she had found that uni pups with one coloured ear are normally deaf in the white ear.

And what about these breeders of white boxers/GSD's that advertise them as extremely rare and then charge double the price for them.There is a well known breeder of boxers that lives not too far from Cambridge who does just that. There is also epilepsy in her line and despite warnings from breed clubs she STILL breeds from affected dogs.

First about the deafness in Bullterriers. What form of this condition do the coloured ones suffer? Is it the same or different than in the whites? And is there any link between colour and BAER results of their parents/ancestors? It would be useful to know.
Many people think that white Boxers are rare not knowing that most of them are killed immediately after birth.

My friend rehomed a white boxer from a rescue and he is also deaf.Hes a lovely dog and responds to hand signals great.Hes real friendly.They walk him on a long lead and never let him run off lead whilst out.
I am sorry for what i am about to write but i feel i must do,so prio apolagies if i do upset anyone.............Could you please refrain from the use of the word handicapped when referring to deafness as i find it most upsetting.I know its not the same thing but i have a 10 year old son who is profoundly deaf,from birth.It was not hereditory,in fact none of either family are deaf.It dissturbs me to think you speak of these dogs as unworthy.
Thanks.

I'm sorry that your son is deaf - I'm sure he's a delightful child. My friend has a son who was deafened (totally) by measles at the age of 4 and she's seen the difference it's made to him. I also have a speech handicap, so can understand your sensitivity. But dogs are different to people. I hope also you're not offended by this.
:)

As a disabled person (registered blind) sicne birth I have no probelm with the word handicapped or disabled or visually challenged or what ahve you.  In fact handicap is whqat they do with horses to even the odds when a horse is doing wel adding weight to it's saddle so that it has less of an advantage, so I suppose you can say it means to disadvantage.

No matter how you look at it not ahving one of your senses certainly disadvantages you.  You learn to be very good at working out ways to compendate, but ther is no getting round the fact that it woudl be preferable not to have this disadvatage.

With animals we can at least in some cases prevent them being born with a higher thn normal likelihood of being disadvantaged, and certainly not rearing such pups wil ensure that they are not having to lead less of a life than one with all it's senses.  When there are fully healthy animals being destroyed for want of a home it seems strange to rear ones that are not.

Brainless i could not of put it better myself...I know just how many deaf white boxers there are in rescue...most through no fault of their own..Boxers are a breed that need firm handling from a early age and trying to train a hearing boxer is hard, but a deaf boxer is even harder.....

I jus wish i had the time to dedicate to helping all these unwanted dogs.I feel stronger about this as i have a child with no hearing.Even in the best bred dogs things can go wrong and you may be left with a puppy thats not 100% healthy.Its such a shame.Im the sucker that takes on all the animals that no one wants and also the horrific vets bills that follow.Thats the main reson i couldnt take on another dog with special needs.I wish i could as they need loving even more.It must be sad for the poor things to be born into a world where no one wants them due to a birth defect.They dont choose to be born like that and abandoned,so everyone thinking of breeding these animals then please dont.The risk is too high and there are too many now in pounds that are lacking in the love and warmth that they all deserve. :(