I have a wonderful 7 month old Flatcoat who it seems is turning out to be a "nice dog" and I have been encouraged to show her.  After all I have read on the subject of breeding on this forum I am sad to say that the breeder I bought her from, whom I have emailed twice with photos, just doesn't reply. 

I bought my girl as a pet, but wanted to let her know that in what was her first litter she had bred at least one really nice puppy.  I used to breed Siamese cats years ago and always appreciated new owners keeping in touch and I was pleased to know that I had let them go to good homes, so I am dissapointed that this breeder just doesn't appear interested. Her home and her animals were clean and well cared for, so I don't think she was just in it just for money, and she provided us with good advice and a puppy pack etc, and my girl has a very well balanced disposition and was clearly reared well, so I am rather at a loss.  Perhaps it's that showing doesn't interest her so she is unimpressed!  I would love to discuss the stud used and his history, and compare notes about the bitch she kept from the same litter.  I have been on the web and can't find details of the mother's breeding either, does anyone know anything about the kennel name Dujard?

I have decided to give up trying to contact her as you can't have a one way correspondance for long!  I know we are all so busy these days.  It just struck me after reading the very strong views from breeders represented here that I had a quite different story.

Catherine,

The breeder of your bitch may not have any or minimal knowledge of shows - I don't know if the breeder is a show-goer? - however you may find it of interest to visit a local open show and speak to Flatcoat people there, take her to ringcraft classes and then maybe try her out at an open show or 2 just to gauge whether you & more importantly, she enjoys it.

Even better still would be contacting one of the Flatcoat clubs and visiting one of their championship shows where you will get a large entry and be able to compare her to the dogs there.

I have the opposite with some of my puppy buyers...they disappear into oblivion and I always wonder how the puppy is, how he/she has grown up etc.?  Whereas others are great and send me photos and regular emails.

Hi again,

I am surprised you have not had a reply, however Dujard is not an affix that seems to have been around a long time. It might be that this breeder is away or does not know anything about the pups sire. Many people register an affix, do all the health tests and use a dog reccomended by a friend or somebody they contact through the internet, breed shows field trials etc...

I am wondering why you have asked this question here since I have privately sent you details of the flatcoats@yahoogroups.com address and the fortheloveofflatcoats@yahoogroups.com, where such questions can be asked and answered. The owner of the sire and possibly the grand parents and great grand parents of your pup are most likely to be members of this group.

I do agree it is interesting to know about the dogs in your pedigree, such as when Blackcap won Crufts or who is the latest FT champion, or even such questions as  "Is my puppy descended from a keepers dog?" All of these questions would be answered very quickly and very accurately on either of these groups.

We would need to know the breeding of your pup to answer the type of questions you wish to ask. Are you sure your puppy is registered yet? Did you get a KC registration? If so you can get a pedigree from the Kennel Club.

Regards

Polly

I HAVE HAD FCR FOR 18 YEARS AND BREED 4 LITTER AND AT CHRISTMAS AND BIRTHDAY ECT I SEND OUT CARDS OR EMAIL OR PHONE,HELP WITH ANY PROBLEM THAT HAVE A RAISED,HELP THEM WITH SHOWING SIDE TOO

IF THE NEW OWNERS OF MY PUP RANG OR EMAIL ME WILL ALWAYS TURN THEIR REPLY.

I HAVE NOT HEARD OF THIS BREEDER NAME BUT THERE MAY BE SOMEONE ELIS ON THIS BOARD THAT MAY KNOW THE BREEDER AND THE BACK GROUND OF THIS PUP. BECKY JONHSON  MAY KNOW OF THIS BREEDER,DID YOU GO THROW THE LITTER REG LADY SHIRLEY JOHNSON TO GET THE PUP,

THERE IS ALOT OF US FCR OWNER AND BREEDERS ON THIS SITE THAT WILL HELP YOU OUT WITH ANY PROBLEMS,

cant you find the stud's history on his pedigree? you need to research the names on that. the breeder may be away on hols so dont give up hope yet! how about ringing her?

Thank you to all for your contributions.  I suppose I wasn't so much seriously asking big questions but telling of my own experience really, Polly.  When I say 'history' I didn't mean the name of the dog as I have registration documents, but I am unable to find any information about the dam's breeder as I have poured over the Net for weeks and found very little, it is the dam who is Dujard, not the stud.  I just thought that contributers to this forum might know more than so called official contacts as you are probably more at grass roots level.  I have tried to trace all the dogs in my pup's pedigree and have as you say got Black Cap there, but it is more that I would like to get to know a bit more about the kind of dogs and the quality of them, what work they did etc. than just names on the pedigree.  I will however try the links you mention, which I had merely forgotten about and see if that is helpful.  As I say though, I was more marking a contrast with other opinions than anything else, with a question thrown in as an afterthought.  Sorry if you feel I am a bit of a waste of time. I will refrain from such indulgent pastimes from now on!!

whos the sire and the dam of the pup who the gran sire and dam on the dams side

Nobody thinks you are a waste of time. I was surprised you asked the question here first and not on the forums I sent you.

As to your pup's breeder Mrs Howard has only bred three litters two I know are registered and I suspect your pups litter will be in the next edition of the BRS. Mrs Howard is located in Oxfordshire. The last litters sire, she has used according to the BRS was owned by the Ronitasway people. Did a repeat mating take place? We cannot help as Terri says unless we know which sire and dam your puppy is from.

However since you are asking about the dogs in your bitches pedigree as I said before you can ask the people on the other boards as the people who owned them might be members, and certainly there would be people who knew the dogs and their characters and abilities very well.

As it is, I assume your pup's dam is a bitch called Fervant Flora, That being the case her sire is Fenders Corker of Claverdon which is a working line. Her dam would be Sorrel Sophie which I assume from the name must be a pet bred bitch. Sophies sire is Twig of Glidesdown who belonged to my friend Bill Garrod and was a show dog. Sophies dam is Briar Bramble, and Briar Bramble is by Waverton Glenfidditch at Bitterwell out of Nantiderri Terrafern. The Waverton kennel belongs to David & Brenda Hutchison who are members of both the other boards. Your pups dam has very strong working and showing lines behind her. A "half sister" from the previous mating to the Ronitasway dog has won at championship shows. Now if I can supply this much detail, then the people on the other boards could supply much more indepth information.

Hope this makes sense of my meaning in my previous posting. I'm sorry you obviously took my comments in a way not intended.

Can't add a lot to Polly's note. except to say that Fenders Corker was with Mike Addison in Carmarthenshire, so your bitch's grand-dam maybe have a Welsh connection.  

I know that one or two dogs sired by Glidesown dogs lived around the Gower Peninsula - Glidesdown Wendy was a beautiful bitch living with Sally Davies, but never bred from.    Nantiderri  sounds as if there's a Welsh connection as well.

Before you jump to conclusions, as far as I know, these are all quite legit. dogs - not puppy farmed just because they came from Wales!!!

Jo and the Casblaidd Flatcoats

Got it - I knew the story rang a bell - the breeder of your bitch was in contact with us last year, and went to a good friend of ours to stud.

If you email me privately (click on my user name) I can fill you in more - you bitch could easily be very good looking and worth showing

Jo and the Casblaidd Flatcoats

Many thanks for taking the time to reply to me everyone.  I did buy my pup from a 'proper' breeder and have a legit pedigree, so I know the names behind her, that isn't what I was enquiring about.  As I have been told by quite few that she is worth showing (and I never even asked!) it made me want to know about her ancestry and why she was so good.  As I am very new to Flatcoats they are just names on a piece of paper, but I wanted to know who these dogs were and what they did. I was involved with horses for many years and bred cats for a long time and lines mean so much.  I aquired a Spanish horse a few years ago from someone who went on holiday and came back with a 'souvenir' with minimal papers, and I spent some heartbreaking months trying to trace his history, but I got there in the end so could register him here and show him.  Not that that was the purpose, I just have one of those minds that needs to put a picture and life to the dogs and learn about the individuals' work etc., much as people go into heraldry nowadays I guess, so thank you Polly for the information which was great.  I have tried the message board you mentioned and I haven't found yet found my way around it!  All I will say now is that you are right apart from that Fervent Flora is my bitch's granddam, her maternal grandsire is Rhyolite Medallion by Morland Scholar out of Nookcroft Erwood. 

I am a bit concerned about saying any more about the breeding because I don't want anyone to think that the very nice lady I bought my pup from was in some way dishonest which is not what I intended. This seems to have taken off a bit more than I expected, but I very much appreciate the time you have all given.  Jo, I have actually been in touch with you recently about her sire and you very kindly gave me the information I wanted.  If it's ok with you I will email you again later as it is likely you can fill me in further, but first I will try the Flatcoat sites.  At the end of the day, as they say, it wouldn't really matter a jot what is behind my girl, to us she is just a very beautiful, friendly, funny, obedient and intelligent chum and she has enhanced our lives more than we could have anticipated.

>went on holiday and came back with a 'souvenir'

I'm sorry but I have this mental picture of someone climbing the steps to the airplane with this horse tucked under their arm like one of those blasted donkeys with a sombrero :D

LOL!!  It is a very long story, appropriate for a horsey forum so I didn't want to go into it on this one.  No, he drove all the way to Andalucia, Spain with a borrowed two horse trailer, picked up two stallions and drove all the way back, entering the country at Dover docks.  He didn't get them out once all that way, because he was too frightened they wouldn't go back in, so no, he didn't tuck him under anything, let alone his arm!! LOL.

andalucia there were my spainsh water dog relatvies all come from.

Hi

I saw you had found the board, and that you are begining to get replies.  It is interesting finding out what the parents and grandparents were like. Are you a member of the Flatcoated Retriever Society? If so the membership list has everyones affix, and you might be able to write to the people whose affixes are in the pedigree. They will most probably be happy to help you discover more about the dogs in the pedigree.

I know when anyone asks me about the dogs in any pedigree which one of my dogs appears in I am always happy to tell them anything they might want to know..... infact I probably give too much information!

I did wonder if your bitch was a grand puppy of Fervant Flora, but did not know if the dam was from the first litter from Fervant Flora or the second by the Ronitasway dog. Now we know it is the first litter we can contribute to your knowledge much more. There is no reason why you can't ask on the board either, as the people there will know these dogs, which many I don't.

Good luck with your search.

Thanks again, Polly, much appreciated.  Are you going to Ardingly this Sunday or to the Gundog show at Guildford next week?  If so I might be there.  I am not sure if I will actually bother to go at the moment although I have entered.  If you are going, please say hello!

Cathie

As it is the shooting season I generally am booked elsewhere, so don't do much in the way of shows. The next two shows I'll be at are the LKA in December as I steward there every year, and then on 8th January I'll be at Bucks Canine Society in Slough. Then the next show after that will be the breed club show after the AGM.

You can see I show a lot! lol I am not the best handler ever to step in a ring, but we do venture out from time to time. Perhaps we'll meet up at the AGM or a show sometime in the summer?

If you have entered why not give it a go? You have nothing to lose really.

Hi Cathy,

If you go to these shows look out for Terri as she will help you and your puppy, give any advice you might need etc..

Good luck

HI
I BE AT BOTH OF THOSE SHOW, WITH MY FCR,

WHERE ABOUT DO YOU LIVE YOU CANNOT BE TO FAR WAY FROM ME

Hi again!

Briedog and Polly, I will email you.

Thanks for the help, I now have quite a lot of info from the Yahoo group and will be following it up.

Regards
Cathie