Isobele

>Do people in the "working" world never write articles?<

Only very, very rarely indeed, in fact I never even thought about that particular dog of mines achievements until I needed to trace and then contact someone for commendations back in 2002 and again early this yea. I just had the pleasure of training and liveing with him, never even thought about what he did once it was over and when I needed to fall back on some of it.

There are thousands of dogs working here in UK right now, guide dogs, hearing aid dogs, saving people from walking in front of cars etc a very large amount were probably killed in the twin towers by falling rubble, trapped and starved to death, burned to death, dogs get blown up searching for explosives, thousands of events each hour, they are rarely mentioned.

Their greatness, as jeanigenie puts it, is owning and living with them and strangers whose lives they have touched in the process of their own lives, that's is beyond words.

The dogs in the clip below will never be known, how many lives they will save, if they get killed. No people who live with these working dogs might make a passing reference once in a rare while, the rest is beyond that the dogs below will never be known, not as jeanigenie puts it 'one of the greats' (it looks good) just unknown dogs, that's all.

http://www.wackyvids.com/movies/animals/12...dogonthego.html

PS to above, the dogs in that video will have no pedigrees - no records.

>There are thousands of dogs working here in UK right now, guide dogs, hearing aid dogs, saving people from walking in front of cars etc a very large amount were probably killed in the twin towers by falling rubble, trapped and starved to death, burned to death, dogs get blown up searching for explosives, thousands of events each hour, they are rarely mentioned.

There are thousands of articles written about these dogs (quite deservedly so), maybe not as individuals, although there are many cases where it is, but their work is certainly written about.
But you were talking about your individual dog "achieving the highest recognitions" surely that would be written about in whatever field it was that he achieved them.

Jeanigenie

>If he was that great he'd be mentioned in many references. <

I have no idea what you mean by great- there are those who talk great but those who actually 'do' say little.

-you can hardly call any UK Dobe great as a show dog until one wins a significant international show title, and, I mean an international show title not one which has been shown at a European countries national level in that countries KC equivalent, I mean an international breed champion title.

Jeanigenie

>That's a helpful link, thank you. No mention of him being a champion, though. Do you know how many CCs he had? It must have been a lot to be the 'most highly qualified' Dobermann.<

>If, however, you type in "ch hillmora the explorer" ... nothing! This suggests that he wasn't a champion<

Well you do make sweeping statements don't you, remember sweeping statements speak of an individuals credibility in all statements, past and future.

Hillmora The Explorer - show.
According to KC library:
He had 6 or 7 CC's, born 1973 became breed champion 1976.

Working Titles:
Amazingly, the KC told me they do not even keep records of working trials that long, I found that hard to understand at all so its hardly surprising they are not recognised at FCI working dog category, I am still surprised at that but there you go.

It was NOT because of his show titles alone that he was highly qualified, personaly they dont interest or impress me on their own, 'someone likes someones dogs looks better'.

I can remember for a fact he was TDex but I was not sure if he went to PD. KC gave me a couple of contacts one of whom was involved with them at working levels going way, way back. Hillmora The Explorer did gain his PD, I thought he probably did but I could not confirm that, his PD has now been confirmed.

As far as that person/source knows no other Dobermann ever became both a breed champion and gained the highest KC working dog award, which puts him as the highest qualified UK KC awards Dobe.

Nice to know you rely on Google Jeanigenie, bit of a failing this time though.

> the highest KC working dog award <

isn't the PD qualification in Working Trialst the highest KC working award  it's the PD challenge certificate & the creme de la creme is to win the KC WT Championships

There was a WT Champion bitch who won three WT CC's so he wasn't the top working trials dobermann of all time

BTW have you forgotten the Crufts Obedience Bitch Championships was won by a Dobermann Bitch ? That too is the top working award as only the top Obedience dogs are invited to compete in the only competition that results in a Crufts Champion(ie every dog that wins it is a champion-even if it has only won one Ob CC before !)

There was a brown bitch who was made up & had WT quals as well & I think she got FCI quals went she & her owner went to France to live

>I have no idea what you mean by great

By 'great' I mean universally admired by breed afficianados - none of whom seem to mention him even in passing. They may not even become champions, but may pass on greatness to their descendents.

There have been only two Working Trial Champions in Dobermanns and both belonged to John Fleet and he also won the KCCs with them in the TD stake.  I cannot recall their names.

Tohme

>There have been only two Working Trial Champions in Dobermanns and both belonged to John Fleet and he also won the KCCs with them in the TD stake.<

The PD is the highest as far as I know,TD comes before that I dont know if the Hillmora was a working trial champion because he got the PD, I only know PD is the top sports qualification in their tests.

I know he got the title, what I am saying is that he won BOTH his breed champion for beauty and the highest KC working award as far as I am aware, which is the PD which is not an international title anyway.

Are you saying these were breed champions as well or what?

Do you mean this dog moonmaiden ? > Ch Dizown Bedazzled of Chaanrose > Taveys Satellite x Olderhill Salvador

Born 1975 3 CCs, 1 RCC, 1 BOB,

>>>Dobermann Club Working Test I

I did not see anything about PD, challenge or otherwise, as far as I know PD is highest, I remember something about the Dobe club tests, cant remember what test 1 was but KC had nothing to do with them, they died out around late 70's early 80's I think, a lot had left those sort of training events by then the breed had gone to show interest only.

Moonmaiden

>BTW have you forgotten the Crufts Obedience Bitch Championships was won by a Dobermann Bitch?<

That kind of simulated obedience is not classed as much, it might be at crufts but the dog is not held in high drive until sent into another exercise, interesting yes, high, no, what is it about 2-3 mins owner out of sight something like that?

10 minutes - same as PD :)

Actually you are not correct in saying that PD is the highest stake in Working Trials.  Both TD and PD are ticket stakes and winning 2 CCs in either will make your dog up to a WT Ch.

Both stakes are of equal value and some dogs get tickets in both.  But neither one is superior/inferior to the other, they are just different.  PD is not rated as the highest KC working award, the TD and PD are equivalent in value.

Those who have won CCs in TD would/do take great exception to your comment! :rolleyes:

There are many people who do not wish to compete in PD as it contains the manwork element.

I have no idea if they were breed champions or won any tickets in the breed ring.

Tohme

>Both stakes are of equal value and some dogs get tickets in both.<

No I did not know that, I thought they went in order cd, cdx etc I knew PD was last, but even so as far as Dobes are concerned the workig tests of the ZTP (German fit for breeding licence) is far more difficult than PD, not least because of the courage test, quite difficult for the breed, and the bite has be full and hard but there is no tracking and some don't like that either, I dont like sports tracks at all.
I think it takes a very, very, highly motivated someone to do those tracks for a sports title unless they like sports tracks, ESPECIALY that SchH track, icons of sports motivation to do that one.

The Schutzhund 3 track pales into insignificance compared to that required for Working Trials.

It is never more than 7 legs, always the same pattern and rarely tested on difficult ground; you can also qualify without the dog indicating any of the articles!

In Working Trials the TD track is 3 hours old, up to 30 legs, 1/2 mile in length and the articles are teeny tiny compared to the gigantic ones in Schutzhund and you must recover 2 out of the 3 articles to qualify.

Tracks can be on stubble, crop, grass, rolled plough etc etc etc.

However the sports are completely different as whilst the Sch test is extremely simple, it is marked very hard and you are forced to be at the end of a 30ft line and a harness is not permitted, whereas the marking may be more generous in WT but you can choose the length of line and you must use a harness.

So personally I would say that WT people were more of a sports icon myself! ;) :D

I think you will find the breed record holder in Dobermanns was CH Sallate Ferris with 42 CCs

"you can hardly call any UK Dobe great as a show dog until one wins a significant international show title, and, I mean an international show title not one which has been shown at a European countries national level in that countries KC equivalent, I mean an international breed champion title"

RUBBISH!!!  There are several great Dobermanns in the show ring today and not everyone wants to show overseas !!!