my 19 month old gsp has always had problems with her digestive system, but recently she has started to really stink, she has not got diarrohea (first time in ages) but i notice it on a night time and it is really not very nice, i know its natural, but this smells very pungent.  she has also got smelly breath, which i can smell when i come in on an afternoon after leaving her a couple of hours to go to college.  what do i do? is there any reason behind this, or is it just her being her? should i take her to the vets? if i phoned up the vets, as you all know, they will say bring her in-because they want the money from the consult!

thanks
sarah

With humans if you have stomach problems it can give you bad breath.  I really don't know what the problem is but if she is getting diarrhoea a lot I would say something isn't right.  Have you tried different foods with her?  Also I think that diarrhoea can cause the anal glands to get full and that would make her smell bad.

thanx for your reply
I have not changed foods with her for about 6-8 months now, but had to change them quite alot when she was younger, to find one that suited her.  last night, i was having my tea, she has never bothered about my food but last night she was trying her hardest to get food off my plate, i told her to leave-which she normally knows, but this did not make any difference.  just to say, she did not get any, but it was very stressful both for me and her, in the end I put her in her crate until I had finished. due to this massive behaviour change, i phoned the vets this morning, and have got an appointment for tomorrow morning.

Just a thought, are you up to date with your worming program.  I know dogs can get very bad breath as well as a bad smelling skin when they are ill and I had a similar problem with my cat.  Thinking the worst I asked for all sorts of tests and neglected the worming.  When he was wormed his breath and skin odour improved.

If it is really bad it is usually an indicator of something else.  It would be wise to have your dog checked if only to rule out a worm infestation.

Ahh!

There's a cat around here was in a terrible state (coat matted and falling out in lumps and naked in patches) smelled really badly, stray, we tried to catch it but couldn't (scarred for life now tho) so one of the neighbours started feeding it and laced the food with wormer.  The cat is still living rough, but the difference is remarkable, his coat is growing back, the mats have disappeared (no one can get near to brush him) and he no longer stinks :D 

hi
yes she is upto date with her worming programme, has been wormed every three months since i got her, the last one being the 7th october 2005
took her to the vets on saturday, he said she looked absolutly fine in herself (the smell is bad wind, not skin, sorry to of mislead anyone).  Was ok with her looking skinny, said he preffered it that way then other dogs that he sees. we then went to weigh her and she has lost 3 kgs in 3 months, from 20kgs to 17kgs (she is a small gsp) so he asked me to bring in a feacal sample for him on mon, so i took that in this morning, it looked fine to me though, so do not know what he is going to say.  he wants to see her in another two weeks to weigh her again and then he wants to test her pancreas for deficiencies.  when i got home, i looked in one of my dog health books-probably a silly thing to do and it said if this tests positive, it means she will be on tablets the rest of her life, and testing the pancreas also means that the vet is testing for diabetes.  I do not mind if she has to be on tablets or injections all her life if that controlls her weight loss.

I had a Lab that was never really looking good and quite frankly stunk! Itwas suggested that she was allergic to a component common in most dog foods and so I change the food and eventually I have found one that she is OK with and after about a month her smell had gone back to what I would expect of a dog that hasnt just rolled in something disgusting! So I would say try changing the diet.

she has been stable on this diet for 8 months, had really bad problems with her and food intolerances when she was a pppy, so wold porefer not to change her food again, but if it turns out that i do have to, then obviously i wil as i want the best for my dog.  the vets looked at her faecal sample yesterday and want to send it to the lab for further testing and i have to wait 10 days for the results, fingers crossed.  in a way i hope they find something, as i wold like it explained, but if they do not, then iw il have to find some way of controling it, like changing her diet etc
thanks for the suggestions

TBH it doesn't sound like Pancreas deficiency which was very common in GSDs & is still found mainly in GSDs

If youi scroll down this link there's information about PI Actually reading other bits of the link it does say diagnosiing problem of this type can be difficult ! You might want to switch off the background music !

im now extremly worried, the tests came back fine apart from a slightly low folate # (may be an intestinal disease) so she has been put on streroids and a prescription diet for sensitive stomachs.  Saturday night she became very ill and since then she is acting very rag doll like and has extremly bad diarrohea, kept me up all sat nite wiv it every few hours.  I phoned the vets on Sunday and they said to starve her and to bring her in on monday morning if she had not improved, infact she got worse, the diarrohea is now a yellow colour (sorry for being graphic).  so i phoned them this morning and was told to bring her in straight away and they have taken her in for antibiotics and to be put on a drip.  She seems to be like a parvo dog (without the vommiting) even though she is fully vaccinated and is not due a booster for another 6 months.

Hi Sarah

I'm so sorry Keisha isn't improving in any way - at least while in the vets you know she'll be getting monitored carefully.

Keisha may have something like gastric ulceration, pancreatitis, EPI or IBD rather than an infection of any kind.  Ask your vet when next speaking to him what they have tested for and ruled out to date and what they are now looking towards as being the strongest possibilities.   The cure for some GI disorders can be an antagonist for others so I'd be pushing hard for rapid diagnosis and aggressive treatment immediately thereafter.

Good luck, she's in my prayers.  Please let us know how things go with her.
Best wishes, Teri x

So sorry hope Keisha is well very soon. Take care Sharon

Hi Sarah,

Any update on Keisha?

Thinking of you both, Teri :)

keisha came home yesterday with tinned food to be fed four times a day, anitibiotics and more steroids as well as steroid cream as she's been licking at her paws, where her dew claws would have been (she had them removed at 3 days).  She seems her normal self and immediatly started playing with her toys when she got in the door, however the vets still do not know whats worng with her, and apart from sending her home with this stuff and me to phone them tomorrow, thats all they are doing.  There surely could be something they could test for to see what is wrong, because dogs arent just hospitalized for three days for no reason.
tests they did on monday have come back showing high white cell count and aneamia

Hi Sarah,

Have you asked the vet what the steroids and ABs are being used for?  Particularly the steroids?  Just that you mentioned in an earlier post that it may be an intestinal disease which could mean he is using the steroids to reduce internal inflammation but should there be a need to do certain further tests, the steroids will negate some results and Keisha would have to be off them (depending on the dosage) from anything between a minimum of 7 days up to 6 weeks.  The obvious down side of that is if her symptoms persist and the cause has not been established, she can neither be appropriately treated nor accurately diagnosed until the steroids are totally out of her system (and even a low dosage for a few days hangs about for some time ;) ).

I know you probably feel like a washed out rag with all the worry etc, but try and be firm with your vet and ask for a "plain speak" explanation of what he thinks he's treating and what has he ruled out so far.  Have a pad and pen handy with any Qs you want to ask already written down and so that you can take notes of info he passes on to you.

Good luck, Teri :) 

the steroids are prednisalone and are being used to reduce any inflamation, as he thought that she isnt absorbing the nutrients and water due to the inflamation.  the antibiotics are being used (prescribed by not the normal vet as his day off is a mon) to treat any infection in her intestine, not sure what they are called, (in a green coloured silver sheet).  Do steroids also mask temperature, as her temp was taken on monday morning when she was admitted and it was normal.

He has actually said when I went to pick her up that they are just treating the symptoms until she feels better but surely they should not wait until she feels better to do any tests?

Hi Sarah,

Hope you got my earlier PM :)  She may genuinely have a normal temp with her symptoms if they are not the result of an infection.  As to whether your vet should simply treat the apparent side affects of an ailment rather than aggressively investigate a diagnosis - IMO, given that this has now been going on for quite some time and Keisha's improvement is your main priority I would say definitely not :( 

But, as I suggested before, it really depends on whether you have been able to pin him down on what he suspects may be the cause(s) of her problems.  If for eg. he's aware of a raging viral infection in your location that causes these symptoms then he would be justified in treating what symptoms present themselves, so to make Keisha as comfortable as possible until the virus runs it's course. OTOH, if he hasn't a clue where to go from here or he has a few things in mind but would simply rather play a waiting game, then I'd INSIST on an immediate specialist referral - because in those circumstances, he's not doing nearly enough.

Please keep us updated, best wishes Teri x

Hi Sarah,

Getting anywhere with asking your vet what he's got planned?  Any more news on your precious girl?
Hoping Keisha's picking up a little with the meds - I know you'll be worried :(

Update when you can, luv Teri x 

keisha is her normal self at the moment, have to go and pick up some more of this food tonight, so am going to ask him alot of questions.  I have 1 very bored dog at the moment as she can not have any more food other then this and therefore the lack of training (which i do with her every day) is starting to get to her, toys dont seem to work as well, so am going to ask the vet when i can start introducing very bland food for training.  or if there is a biscuit version of this food to make training easier.

Hi Sarah,

If she's OK on the diet all you need do is smooth some onto a baking tray and bake slowly on a low heat and then break off pieces for training treats (take the amount you give her as treats from her daily ration).

Hope you get some answers - if not, ask for a referral.

Good luck, and please keep us posted
regards, Teri :)

Hi Sarah,

How are things with Keisha now?  Have you had a definitive diagnosis from your vet or a referral arranged?

Please update when possible.

Thinking of you both, Teri :)

sorry, havent updated sooner, been very busy with college stuff.

keisha is still on this low fat easily digestible food 4 times a day, slowly introducing the dried food to her tinned from last night.  the vet tested her urine, as she had still not drank since coming home from the vets and it really stank and was dark, but he tested it on site and said it was normal.

his new theroy is that her digestive system just couldnt cope any more with being allergic/intollerant to so many different food groups and it just shut down.  no science behind this theory though

Hi Sarah

Thanks for the update although I must say that in view of how long Keisha's problems have been going on and the apparently vague mumblings from your vet I personally would be not be fobbed off with a "theory". 

However I've made my recommendations here and do of course wish you both well.
regards,  Teri

just to let you know, keisha seems an awful lot better in herself, she saw the vet this morning and her weight is still quite low, but it is stable. i dont like the idea of being fobbed off with a theory either, what kind of specialist would you say and how do i go about it, because if she hasnt started to put weight on next time she is weghed (3rd jan) I am seriously considering it.
sarah and keisha

Hi Sarah,

Whatever is going on with Keisha it's good news that she hasn't lost more weight :)

If you remain unhappy with Keisha's treatment or feel the vet is not giving you a clear diagnosis and prognosis, ask him/her for a referral to a specialist - it will most probably be at your nearest Vet Hospital.   Her case notes, test results etc will be passed to the consultant appropriate for the symptoms Keisha is showing so other than asking your regular vet for a referral there is nothing else you need to do - it will be arranged for you :)

Is Keisha insured?    

thanx
yes she is (thank goodness).  upto £3000 per illness.  I think we r heading towards the £1000 mark at the mo.

Well that's good news :)  Often specialists will re-run tests that have already been done - which can be expensive - however it helps them get a more accurate picture of any changes which have cropped up if there's more than say 7-10 days since previous readings.  

In the meantime, if your vet is of the belief that Keisha has intestinal problems due to food intolerances, ask if she can have the York lab tests done to confirm that diagnosis (TBH the Vet University facilities are sceptical of the accuracy or worth of these tests and are less likely to arrange them at a later date should you go down the specialist route).  It may well be that if you have a fixed list of ingredients she needs to avoid that she will turn the corner very quickly when you're able to source or make up a diet that excludes these ingredients.

No offence intended but I'm guessing you're quite young and too polite ;)   You have to ensure that your vet is prepared to explain in detail exactly why after several weeks you have yet to have a diagnosis for Keisha.   Your vet has been paid handsomely for treatment to date - but you have apparently been given very little info    Get your hard hat on and demand clear and consice answers.   Good luck, and thanks for the update.

Regards, Teri :)

hi
just been able to check my emails.  everyone says I am too polite!! however, keisha has made a massive improvement over the last week, she has put on 1.5kgs, so is now upto 17.85kg.  She is really hyper, more then she's ever been before and her faeces are more normal then they have ever been.  the vet said he wants to change her onto walfcol salmon and potato but keep her on four meals a day and see how she goes, then once she's back up to 20kgs, he thinks we should put her on three meals and then two.  lots of bridges to cross, but I think she has crossed the biggest. 

hope she keeps it that way, because I cant go through this again.
thanx for the support

That's great news -  delighted for you both :)  Everything crossed here that Keisha continues steady weight gain and any tummy / bowel problems are a thing of the past.

Happy New Year - here's to it being a healthy one too!

Best wishes, Teri x