Someone mentioned to me today that at a show recently a number of dogs who won best puppy as well as BOB in their breed classes were not allowed to compete for BPIS and BIS as the BIS judge had not gone over them.  I have never heard of this before and surely this shouldn't of been allowed to take place?

Has there been a change of any rules?

I'm just being nosey as I was quite shocked by it.  I believe that there's going to be a number of complaints and I'm sure that I would too if I had of been involved.

Golly - never heard of this happening

Usually, those dogs/pups the judge had already 'seen' would be put on one side of the ring and the 'unseen' dogs/pups woulld be on the other side.  The judge would then go over the unseen dogs and judge them as usual, followed by the seen dogs who would then be asked to walk around the ring and 'do the triangle'  etc. from then on the judge would judge as usual ;) 

Last year I was at a show judged on the old system (not the group system) and my pup went BOB and forward to BPIS and BIS.  In the Best Puppy ring we were in with pups which we had beaten (in our classes) I'm told this shouldn't have happened, but its too late when you're in the ring, can't check catalogues then!  We didn't do well in that ring but were 3rd in the BIS ring :D :D :D  - was so pleased - it was pups first show and we'd had to wait till 4pm for the first puppy class!  but only an open and we brought back kennel cough so won't be doing one of those again ;)

I'm totally confused...so if the BIS judge hasn't seen your dog you can't compete????

I've never known this to happen before and the person who told me has shown for years too and I know that the people who should of gone in for it have been showing for more years than I have and I've been showing my dogs for 20 odd years :d

Hi

I was at a toydog show on Sunday where the judge gave best in show to a puppy.
She then judged (?) for the best puppy in show, which automatically went to her BIS winner.
She did not go over dogs that had won best puppy in breeds that she had not judged,
she also gave a place in best puppy in show to a puppy beaten by the best in show (also a puppy),
which made it a beaten puppy?

People were quite upset at having waited a good part of the day to take part in BPIS for the judge
not to consider them. 
A not very nice end to an otherwise good day.

That is  the correct procedure. If a Puppy goes BIS it is automatically BPIS as it has beaten all the BOB's which have previously beaten the other puppies. The other pup must therefore have been given RBPIS and will have only been beaten by the pup that went BPIS but no other puppies although the RBPIS may however have been beaten by an adult.

In the case you quote Abbeypap, if a puppy is BIS it is automatically BPIS - very unfortnate for those pups that have waited, but it is an automatic award and the BIS judge would have been fined another dog was given BPIS

the other situation is odd, show not on group system, from what you say some BOB winning puppies did not compete for BIS?? and were then not allowed to compete for BPIS?? Sounds bizarre unless BIS was a puppy.

Not very good at explaining this I think.
BIS was a puppy therefore automatically BPIS.
Other pup that was BOB and beaten in BIS competition continued into BPIS.
The club awards 1 to 4th in BIS and BPIS.
The BIS won BPIS,  beaten pup got 4th BPIS.
Other pups competeing for BPIS not seen by the judge previously were not moved or examined by the BIS judge.
She walked round the ring looking at them standing then chose her 1st (BPIS) to 4th.
People were not upset at the BPIS but at the judges failure to examine or move unseen dogs.
Don't know if it explains it any better.

Seems they may have some complaint then as they should have been properly judged for the lower placings but the BIS would still have automatically got BPIS.

As long as second pup wasn't beaten by any other puppy in the BIS lineup other than the BIS/BPIS then it was perfectly entitled to go in for BPIS.

understand now Abbeypap. Judge should have judged all the others, leaving the BIS stood to one side. perhaps he/she was confused.