A dog breeder has accused a council of persecuting her by issuing a second noise abatement notice after its first one was thrown out by a court.

I wouldn't like to live next door to 24 huskies :D

Daisy

mm me neither. my half brothers mum has 11 huskies in her house. its crazy when you visit you get jumped on and licked, lovely dogs though.

The name of the kennels doesn't help her cause. ;)

LOL :D

Daisy

You are right JG ! :D :D

Lucy
xx

My friend has moved to the middle of nowhere as her neigbours were complaining and she only had 5 huskies at the time... they are a little noisy!

If the Streetmap indication of her area (postcode SO45 3PA) is an accurate indication of how residential it is, I think I'd be persecuting her too. ;) :D

M.

It appears to be on the edge of [link http://www.multimap.com/map/photo.cgi?client=public&X=442500&Y=105500&scale=10000&width=500&height=300&gride=442661&gridn=105681&lang=&db=pc&coordsys=gb]a modern housing estate[/link]!

Edit: Drat! The link won't. :(

She added that in 1999, after hearing veterinary evidence, the High Court had ruled all practical steps at the licensed kennels had been taken.

So what was the evidence ?

Lucy
xx

I didn't think you could claim double jeopardy anymore.  I thought that double jeopardy had been removed from the system now, something to do with the Steven Lawrence case.  Does anyone remember?

24 dogs is a lot of dogs in all fairness.I really don't know how anyone can properly keep that many dogs.Hoe on this earth would you be able to give them enough exercise and play every day.And cleaning all those bowls up.Think of all the dogge mess there must be everyday,would the urine of that many dogs not start to stink the area?

Properly housed they should be okay and being Huskies I think they would be happiest outside although I think there would be a lot of dog - dog bonding going on rather than dog - human.  I can see the owners point, how would you keep that many huskies indoors safely, seriously do the council want them crated or are they prepared to shell out for damage or injury caused by having that many dogs on top of one another all night.

On the other hand, and we are facing this too, if you are going to breed and keep a lot of dogs you do need to bear in mind that it will impact on the neighbours quality of life and buy a property away from estates etc.  Having said that, we did just that and the estates crept nearer and nearer to us and now they are all around.  I don't know where we stand in law but the new people all around knew we had dogs when they bought their houses and if they didn't want to be near us they should have bought properties elsewhere.

Also thye want them coioed up for 11 1/2 hours a night!

But is the inference that the dogs aren't currently shut in at night at all, and therefore you could have 24 dogs starting to howl at 3AM in a residential area - or am I missing something?

Surely nobody can think that is reasonable, with the best will in the world?  Even during the day, there will be shift workers trying to sleep and it must be an infernal racket.

M.

I live next door to 2 Samoyeds and they bark a lot, Its bearable, but would hate to be close to 24 of them. I don't know about huskies, but living close to 24 dogs of any breed must be a nightmare

It wouldnt bother me... but then i would love to own 10 or more mals,and if OH gets his way a sibe or two aswell :D

It is still valid and I can't see it ever being scrapped , more so with such strong Human Rights presence.

There has always been a clause and it has been used when  "reliable and compelling new evidence of guilt" come to light in the case that a retrial is allowed.   Remember it only applied to Acquittals also.

I know the film DJ made people more aware of it but the wife was found guilty so that is a different twist to it.

The reason I don't think the rule will ever be scrapped  and the whole principle of have it is for the simple reason if you are aquitted and then a high court decides there is compelling new evidence to warrant a new trial it is difficult to measure if you get a fair trial and a fair jury. Then rule was to prevent people being prosecuted based on a " he/she must have done it if the high court believes there is enough evidence" making the person look guilty even before the trial starts and to ensure that the prosecution does it right first time.

The UK Law Commission recommended in March 2001 that there be a documented second exception that 'in murder cases only, the Court of Appeal should have power to quash an acquittal where there is reliable and compelling new evidence of guilt and a retrial would be in the interests of justice. This new exception would apply equally to acquittals which have already occurred'.

This clause has already been used in the past.

I would imagine the evidence is that she meets and adheres to the terms of her licence which would include the codition the dogs are kept in.

The problem I think is given a licence in residential areas.

I think if it is a private kennel with their own dogs only they should try to control the noise. Even from 10pm till 7pm which is when most dogs/people sleep.  I am not saying 100% silence. I think most breeds you can train and discourage from barking constantly.

A licence for a boarding kennel , well that is something else.

I know my lot when they want to bark, they will but we train them to huss when we tell them like most of you will.

I don't agree with people just letting the dogs bark and bark which some do and don't give a hoot. Sometimes I sit at open shows ( this is where I see it the worst)  and see people chatting away and their dogs are bark bark barking and they just stand there and let them.

The flip of the coin is you get some people/neighbours that moan at the first bark of a dog and you can never win with them.

Hi,
Huskies are going to howl just as many pack dogs do! So that couldn't be
stopped. 24 is an awfull lot of dogs though! and if living near to other
homes is a little inconsiderate. It is obviously a large business.
I think that they could however build indoor kennels with double glazing,
with sleepin area's and runns. 24 is a lot to house but! shouldn't have them
if you can't provide proper facilities. It needs to be 50/50 give and take a little.
On both sides. The kennels must have made a lot of money. So should have
reinvested in there  facilities. I would imagine that if noise got worse,
or the owners didn't try to reduce it a little. They could re prosecute.
I wonder if the article gives all the information? The must have a kennel lic.ect;
Regards
Denese

I would think as well that all the howling would set other people's dogs off.  Must be a nightmare living near them.  Imagine trying to sell your house as well

Hi

Jenny Manley is one of the best known people in the husky world, having been in the breed for almost as long as anyone in this country. Most dogs will have her affix somewhere in their pedigree. She is also a CC awarding judge. And she is famous for taking people to court and is very well versed in the law.

I don't know her that well myself, and have never been to her kennels, but I can assure you that the dogs will all be very well looked after. 24 dogs isn't that many in Huskys, quite a few kennels have 30 or 40. They tend to howl all at once, but only for about a minute at a time. It will not be going on all night. However I can quite understand people nearby being upset. I don't know the ins and outs of the case, this was just to give you some background info.

agree with Husky on that 1 not because huskies are my breed

every1 should be aware of how owning however many dogs they

have will affect their neighbours etc

contrary to belief huskies dont howl for hours on end mine

dont, i live in a local  council house and obviously make sure

that the noise is minimal when they  do

make any,(which is very rare)

we olny know what has been put on the link above and

as every1 says there are 2 side to every story, maybe its just some1

who doesnt like dogs ?? thats a possibility ,

and as husky says its not unheard of for some1 to own 30-40-50 huskies

ah husky heaven lol :-D

Michelle & gang xx

I have read all the posting on this subject and one thng I find difficut to understand is the number of people ready to judge a situation that is in the Court system before the judge has had time to comment. The details of the case have not been made public as far as I am aware so until the facts are known a fair and just judgement cannot be based on a short newspaper article.

The Facts. one complainent house (Husband and Wife) who purchased the property knowing it was next to a kennels with signs to indicate there were  kennels next door Yse there are 500 households in the area non have ever made a comlaint and most suppoet the kennels.

Fact 2 The kennels were established in 1973 and licenced by the Council. The council lcenced 24 adult dogs. The house next door was a private house with an enclosed lawned rear garden .  In 1984 11 years after the kennels were established The Council in all its wisdom gave planning permission for the quite rear garden to become a car park, deep gravel car park 4 feet away from the kennels the quiet residential house was then made into a hotel for contractors at the Esso Refinery working day and night shifts. People who use car parks are noisy, cars, vans, lorries are very noisy the high Court have said the car park and lights do disturb the dog (at night).

Siberian Huskies are a quiet breed but a gravel car park going 42 7 is sometimes too much and that is thanks to New Forest District Council.

It also does not help if the complainent is caught on video howling at the dogs to wind them up and then laughing at the dog's response. He has now move.

He did try to sue us for loss of earnings and devaluation of property and the removal of the dogs he abandoned his case in September 05. He had no case. The Council still want to prove a point they want to spend money on a duplicate case that is not sound in fact or law The case will be settled a some point we will all have to wait for the judgement on 15th. Dec. 05 to see if the case will go to trial  at a later date.

I am Jenny Manley please do not prejudge me or my dogs the Court will make a decision in time. I am confident as I was in 1999 at the High Court that the case will not go against me. My 500 neighbours are my strength.

Well, I guess on that note and with everything now clarified most people on this site will understand the unfairness of a court action. For a kennels to be established since 1973 with no problems from previous neighbours and to now be dragged into court because of this particular neighbour twice is totally unfair. It does only take one person to upset the apple cart.

I hope that things work out for you, I honestly can not see, how on earth you could ever take 24 huskies inside, even for a couple of hours!  And I expect the council will have to accept that.  If the council granted you the licence many years ago, I do not see what they can now do. It is all probably a waste of tax payers money.  After all the main cause seems to be a change in the enviroment making your dogs bark and howl, all of us with dogs realise that gravel car parks are extremely noisy, not to mention the car lights and cars going up and down.

Now it is clear what is causing your dogs to make noise.

I wish you luck!

Also I am sure that Jenny will clarify, but I expect that the dogs are in purpose built kennels at night shut into their sleeping quarters, no different to being indoors really, and they woudl probably stil be disturbed in the house if they wre able to be accomodated there. 

I expect the most sensitive ones are kept indoors anyway.

At the moment my dogs get wound up by the constant fireworks (thankfully they aren't afraid but annoyed) and having to hush them every few minutes each evening is wearing to say the least.

Hi Jenny,
Guessed! there was more behind it, than what was said,
The Council never tell you everythink. They put it down
to data protection, which works well for them.
Glad you came forward to clarify the truth.
Why buy a house by a kennels, if you are not going to like it!
beats me!!!
Good luck
Denese

Ahhh , now *that* was what I was waiting for before commenting ;)

Makes for interesting reading Jenny, thank you. Yet another case of people moving INTO a existing situation and then moaning about it eh?

Why do people do that? Why move near to an airport and then complain about plane noise? Or move near to a church in the country and moan about the sound of the church bells?

I hope we get to hear the outcome of this case, I would be very interested in the result

good luck with your case jenny,

same here Jenny good luck with the case

sounds like you have a great support behind

you with your other neighbours

hope all goes weel for you

Michelle & gang  xxx

Thank you all for your support. A point I may not have made is the neighbour who complained sold his property for a proffit and has left the area. No one knows where he has gone he and his wife and barking GSD just toddled off into the sunset leaving us to deal with the Council. He is their "Star" whitness in this case and now he has moved away and has no interest in the case I wonder if he has told the Council he has moved? He wanted us out so as to increase the value of their property this has been proved as they took out a Private Action in Dec. 04 to sue us for £20,000 lose of earnings and devaluation of approx. £90,000 and to have all the dogs removed but when our solicitor asked them to declair their earnings they suddenley abbandoned the case failed to comply with the judges directions and the case was struck out by the Court then he did a "runner". I even managed to get him on video he was in the car park spreading more gravel and was howling at the dogs and when a dog got so wound up it answered him he stood there laughing.

The case may be stopped because of the duplication if so its a pitty the judge will not see the video. I will not know if it will go to trial until after the judgement on 15th. December. I am confident the Judge will find that what the Council are requesting has already been dealt with by the High Court in 1999.

I will of course let you all know what is going on.

Jenny

i should think it will be laughed out of court.
what a awful worry for you though :(
positive thoughts :)

I have 3 Sibes. They are very quiet. The only time they make any noise is when threy play fight.
The pup who is 8 months old barks when hes getting a bit bored or hungry thats soon fixed.
I live in a terraced house very close to neighbours.
Most people near me dont even know we own 4 dogs.

Hi Jenny,

Welcome to Champs. Hopefully you didn't think replies too judgemental. 

I have an old sod of a neighbour who has the odd moan if even one of my dogs let out one bark ,I know I get stressed out about it at times and it is nothing on the scale of hassle I presume you and your family have.

Seems in life nobody can get a common ground with the council these days. They seem to be into everything.

Hopefully the court will see it as a like it or lump it situation for them. Certainly from what you have said it should go that way again.

The council seem to have been a bit stupid andi instrumental in all of this anyway to give a licence for a kennel then to even consider never mind giving planning for a hotel.

Good luck and  Please let us know the outcome.