My "working" Springer has damaged the tip of her tail. She has had Metacam for pain and a week's course of antibiotics.  The vet wants her in to sedate her and examine the sensitive tip, with a view to amputation. The vet seems reluctant to amputate just the infected section as she says the stump could get infected and feels that the whole tail may have to come off - leaving a stump that could become infected.  Tilly had a 25cm collar and now has a 30cm as she could still make her tail bleed.  I hope the 30cm works but she has sneaky chews. Are there any alternatives to surgery?  I want what is best for my dog.  I say "working" cos there are two types of Springer.  Ironically, it's the working variety that has the tail left undocked so that it can be seen. The other variation is the more commonly seen "show" Springer.  Tilly isn't a working dog but she does love plunging through brambles etc etc.  Please help me asap.  The tip can't be bandaged and I don't want to interrupt blood flow.  I think it is good for Tilly to clean the tail but then she gets carried away.  Instinct tells me she will need amputation but I just don't want the whole tail off and I don't think Tilly would like it either.

I really don't know the answer because there seems to be more questions to ask.  It seems a bit drastic to cut the whole tail off if just the tip is injured.  The reason the vet has given you for docking the whole tail doesn't make sense to me because if they are worried about the end of the amputated section getting infected, that could happen anywhere they amputate couldn't it? Am I missing something?

edited to say I have a docked breed so not anti-docking but not keen on dogs having tails amputated when adults unless no other choice.

Bone infections are notoriously difficult to treat as there is not the blood supply within bone to deliver antibiotics so effectively so the vet may wish to amputate well clear of the infected area.  With a surgical wound there is much better chance of avoiding infection in the first place.  I think the vet will know what they are doing and, of course, they are the only ones that have the benefit of an examination.

Tingalay, this is the very scenario that I had with my springer.  He is a worker that actually works and as he was my first dog I was all anti-docking and happy to have a dog with a long waggy tail.  After a year he had an amputation.  His tail was split by the time he was 14 weeks old and stayed that way until it was taken away.  We tried all sorts but in the end I became tired of trips to the vets and even more tired of a nasty bloodstained kitchen, lounge, kennel, etc.  He spent much of his early life liver/white and red!  Collars, anti-biotics, lotions, potions, bandages, rest, etc, didn't help at all.  He was bred to go deep into undergrowth and that was where he went!

Eventually we agreed to an amputation and the vet took it off to about 5 inches (too stumpy IMHO).  It was a difficult operation and he was in great pain afterwards which has left a lasting memory on him and he doesn't like his back touched by anyone other than me or my son (who works him).  He gets a bit twitchy with others stroking his back too - 6 yrs later.  We were told about the infection into the bone, hence not just taking the tip off.

All I can offer is good wishes.  It's a difficult decision.  Keeping a damaged tail is high maintenance both in vets bills and time to tend to the wound.  It doesn't make for a happy dog either.  The alternative amputation is not something to be undertaken lightly either and one day the scales will tip the balance helping you with your decision.

Good luck.

PS Our insurance covered the op without question.

Very interested to read your post - I don't know of any other working Springers with tails.  As far as I am aware, the bone isn't infected but I am very aware that as I only had the dog from rescue 5 weeks ago, I could have a lifetime of injuries.  I hate to see dogs docked but it now makes sense why it is done in some breeds.  Tilly is a fairly timid dog who trusts me implicitily.  I am going to agree to her being sedated and the tip being throughly examined.  I would hope that she could have an intra-venous dose of antibiotics and use the larger collar for a while but then again, I left her for literally about two mins tonight whilst I nipped into a shop and she made the end bleed again.  Does anyone understand that whilst I know it might be right to have at least some of the tail docked, I would feel I was letting the dog down?  I just keep thinking there must be something I can do but then again, Tilly LOVES diving into brambles etc after different scents.  You can see how mixed up I am.  I know the right thing to do, and it's not actually come to amputation yet.  I love that Tilly can express her happiness with her tail and just wish she'd been docked as a pup. Poor little love. I hope I sleep tonight!

The working spaniels I know all have their tails 'tipped' - about a third is removed.

my fcr had to have 3inch of her tail two years ago the same thing happen it slit when she was carring her pupies it a long story and it went on for 9 weeks if you want to give me a call on01252310267 just to chat about it.

I have booked Tilly in with a different vet to take off 2-3 inches of her tail on Friday.  She is very unhappy with a plastic collar on and as I am still trying to win her trust, I can only hope that we get through this OK.  I would rather just go for it than have her sedated, shaved, examined and THEN operated on.Thanks, Briedog - I might ring you about recovery.  I don't think you're a million miles away from me - you must be Hants/Surrey and I'm West Sussex/Surrey.

yes near guildford,

wispa was so happy after she had her end off,for nine weeks looking after the pup and dressing the wound up to 5 times  aday she was not happy,

give me a call and i tell you hoe my vet did trhe op so the hair growes back better over the scar site
01252310267

Hi jackyjat.  Re your working Springer... do you ever walk him on the lead or is he always working?  My bitch is so crazy to follow scents that she doesn't understand the concept behind walking nicely on the lead.  I don't know what to do.  I don't want to spoil her joie de vivre or depress her but then again I don't want to be pulled over!  Any ideas?

Aha, I was missing something.  Didn't know the bone could get infected.  I do know an undocked GSPx who has a full tail and everytime we see him his tail is split.  I wonder why they don't dock the working Springer?

You only have to read some of the threads on this subject to begin to understand the strength of feeling some people have on this subject.  It is also down to experience too.  I've had an experience that has swayed me in favour of docking but it is more difficult to get it done these days.  I was lucky when having a litter as my son shoots with a vet who was in agreement to helping us.

I don't think my dog has ever mourned the loss of his tail, just recalls the discomfort.  He can express himself equally well without it and from that respect it hasn't made any difference.

You know I think I am getting more and more senior moments :D  I thought Springers were docked, it was a breed I considered getting but the post threw me off.  Are the Springers like Labs then where you have two different lines, one working and one show?

If it's a breed that is prone to tail damage it is kinder to have them docked at 2 days IMO, I hasten to add.  I know people think it's wrong but there can't be anything more miserable than having a recurring injury like a split tail.  I caught a hang nail on my little finger a few months ago and it hurt without even touching it and then everytime I put any amount of pressure on it, well, lets just say it hurt a lot.  People also think that if the dog isn't working they don't need a docked tail but my dog still exhibits the working traits even though she is a pet.

Hi i dont know if this will help you but my husband slamed the living roam door shut on one of my cockers tails a few years ago she lost the tip completly but the vet saved the rest of her tail, she was put on antibiotics and yes it did keep bleeding , but it did heal eventually , you must stop her nipping at it no matter  what. she needs a big coller on good luck, i hope she wont  need to loss tail. regards debbie .

I've trodden on her tail twice!  Last night I DREAMT I trod on her tail!  I'd prefer she didn't have the tip taken off - I'd prefer an intravenous antibiotic and the collar but I bow to the vet and he says to take the tip off.  Tilly is going to think I don't love her if she has to stay on the lead for the next however long after the op - we normally split five - six miles into two walks Sat and Sun.

It's a little known fact but yes, there are two "types" of Springer - the one you normally see is the Show type and then the Working (or Field Bred) is a lot lighter and finer built. The coat is finer and the ears are shorter.  Tilly isn't used for work but it is instinctive for her to pick up scents and follow them.  My dog trainer can't understand that she isn't treat orientated. Tilly pulls like a train on the lead because as far as she's concerned, she's working - she's trying to do her best for me. I just want her to walk nicely!!!!!  Treats don't interest, clicking, whistling etc!  The trainer tells me to stop/start/walk backwards etc but that just frustrates my activate dog!  We're going to try agility at some point.  It makes no sense to me that the Working Springer isn't docked, but there you go.

Tingalay - we walks to heel without any problem without the lead.  On the lead it takes more effort on my part to get him to walk as close as he does without.  I'm lazy and as I walk down the lane to the fields each morning, I can manage without a lead.  I also have two working cockers who I do keep on the lead as I am mindful of the fact if one goes, they all do!

In this part of the country you don't see many show springers (although I have a friend with one) and it's a little known fact that there are show varieties!  Mine is half the size of a show type.

Coincidentally, treats don't work for mine either.  He is responsive to the whistle but I have never been successful in using treats for training aids.  He responds because he loves us and thinks there might be a pheasant to find somewhere as he trusts me to point him into the right direction!  Although he is a pet, he isn't very pet like and his interest is purely in what is in the field.  My son only has to pick up the key to the gun cabinet and he's alert and ready, sometimes he only has to see him iron a checked shirt ready for a shoot and he knows what's to come!

I won't ever have another working spaniel with a full tail.

It's so useful, having you to talk to.  I live close to Gatwick and it's all show springers round here - if I'd ever seen a working Springer before, I don't remember - I would probably have thought it was a small Large Munsterlander!  Tilly is excellent off the lead - she comes back 99 times out of 100 when I call her and she circles close to me when she's on the hunt.  She also barks at fireworks, which is great - I guess she thinks they're a gun?  It's just this insane pulling on the lead to find something to chase/kill.  I was under the misapprehension that a Springer would flush out, retrieve, gently mouth etc but no, killed a squirrel the other day.  I've never had a dog that kills before and I don't like that part.  Still, you don't choose who needs rescuing, do you?  I love her to bits and just have to accept this part of her nature.  I don't know anyone who works their dogs round our way, apart from a woman at the vet's who skins and cooks anything her dogs kill.  I have no need to work Tilly but she does get damn good runs each day and loves woodland.  If we go in a field, she can't wait to find a bit of hedge to dive through!  And lakes.  And ditches.  And anything dead or faecal.

I had a Weimaraner with a tail several years ago and she hurt hers in the house.  It took ages to clear up with anti biotics. The vet did suggest docking the tail to the point of injury, he said he would not dock the whole tail.  But after lots of treatments it healed.  Basically her tail never stopped and it was hit on door ways, coffee table and it just kept opening up the wound. Also because you could not bandage it with out her taking the bandage off, and the collars they wear, hah, she took that apart in seconds. So we had to ride it out until it was better.
I dont know if that helps.
Rachel

The majority of working Springers are docked as are the majority of show bred Springers, you will tend to find that those 'working' type ESS that have full length tails will normally be pet bred working types and the owners were happy to leave their pups undocked or couldn't find a vet to do it.  My family's first dog was a working x show type Springer and he was docked, quite a nice length actually and not like some of these Dobermann type tails seen on the current show Springers.

I doubt if you open up the Shooting Times you'd find any photos of the top ESS kennels with undocked dogs.

Hi Silverdog.  Very helpful indeed.  I decided last night that, as Tilly's wound is superficial (according to the vet) and doesn't bleed all over the place, just the hair at the end, I am going to persevere with a 30cm collar for a week and ask the vet to administer antibiotics intravenously.  I don't want to put my girl through the trauma of an op and all the after-care so soon after taking her from RSPCA kennels.  I kind of figure she's been through enough and I don't want to destroy the trust we've built.  She's starting to get more confident with other people and situations.  If the tail is looking worse in a week's time, or there is just no improvement, she is booked into the vet for an op but I owe it to her to do my best for her.  And I know there are those who will disagree with me but I'm going on my instinct.  Please don't bombard me with responses about how I should have the tail taken off completely cos I'm just not up for it.

I had a similar problem with a lab and as a last ditch effort tried Aloe. This helped it heal just that bit faster and with (trying) to keep him calm and applying aloe gel at least 3 times a day, thankfully it was just enough to allow it to heal. He does have a very small bald patch but he still has a full waggle. 

Phew!  Thanks Bluebell. I guess you need to have gone through it to appreciate that amputation isn't always necessary.  I will get some aloe and see how we get on.  I also need to be hard with myself and only walk Tilly on a lead for a few days as she keeps catching the tip when she runs off the lead i.e. dives into hedges.  Did your Lab keep trying to lick the gel off?  Did you bandage it at all?

To everyone else, I really should stress that Tilly has only damaged the very tip of her tail and the worst it gets is that the hair around the tip will be bloody.  There isn't enough blood to paint her flanks or the walls of the house.  I see the point that if she hasn't got a tail, then she can't damage it - I could have my breasts taken off so I don't get cancer recurrence but I'm bu**ered if I'm going to.  Same thing.  Prevention is not always better than the cure.  Wouldn't be much of us walking around, would there?!?!  LOL.  For the vet to call it a superficial wound and to tell me it may take time to heal - and then to say that docking three inches off would also take time to heal so it might be better to take the whole thing off.... errr, hello?  And we're talking about a four year old.  Anyway, the tail stays for a bit longer; I'm going to do all I can to heal it and then just hope to heck that she doesn't damage it again.

Norwefian Elkhounds are born with straight tails that gradually over the first year or so get tighter and usually end up with a hook in the end that doesn't straighten at all.

I managed to stand on the hair of one fo my girls tails, and when she leapt up (not realising I was stood on the hair( It snapped the end of her tail clear off!!!

We rushed staight to the Vet (took the tail tip with me) and they ahd to put ehr out to remove another inch of the bone to ahve enough skin to heal over the end.

The Vet told me because of the poor blood supply that sometimes the end of the tail witll die when injured,a dn that is why they like to take enough off to be sure to get to healthy tissue.

If it doesn't heal quickly you may prefer to get an inch off rather than risk loosing it all, but I don't see why amputating the whole tail woudl be sugested for a supperficial injury, other than as moist Springers are docked it woudln't be a huge misfortune aesthetically.

You can't tell my girl is missing some of her tail when it is curled on her back, only if it happens to be unfurled when resting.

Oh.  My.  God!!!!!!!  You must have been devastated!  I've had a Finnish Spitz and a Samoyed and I'm glad I didn't know you could break the ends of their tails! I'd have been so worried!

Having spoken to many breeders with some with over 50 years expereince it is the first time they have ever heard of something like that happening, it was just a freak accident in that the tail must have been lying so that when she jumped up it snapped against the  the bend like you would get with a twig.

I was told that sometimes afghans can catch their hooks and break them because theri tail carriage is not neatly on their backs, I think an Elkies tail is only vulnerable when they lie on the folor and have heavy oafs of owners sand on their tails :D

Golly that is a very different character from a Spitz to a a Spaniel :D

Hi Brainless - Spitz to Spaniel...  Yes, the Spaniel is much easier to call back!!!!  All my dogs have been very different and I've loved them all equally, in different ways.  My Spitz and my Samoyed were both dogs - my Spaniel is a bitch - I think I prefer dogs but she at least comes when I call and doesn't disappear for hours at a time! 

It is fine for her to lick the aloe off as it works from inside and out. Just need to keep reapplying it. Lead walks are a very good idea, although in my experience they need to be long enough to wear them out enough that they dont go loopy in the house and end up bashing it there. If you struggle, what about a sports field or similar where there is no undergrowth and a ball to retrieve?

Oh and never managed to keep a bandage on it, even the stick on type were off by the time we go home from the vets!  The collar was doing so much damage to everyone else in the house that in the end I decided that he should only wear it at night or if I had to go out and I kept a really close eye on him the rest of the time to stop him chewing it. You may also want to try putting a little dilute mix of lavender oil on the wound, this will help healing and taste off putting.

Tilly has her plastic collar on at night and sometimes wakes me, bumping into things!  I wondered about getting some bitter apple spray to put on her tail to discourage chewing but wasn't sure if it would sting or not...

As she loves running after balls and frisbees, I think a sports field is a good idea although she gets a scent after a bit and then chases after it - all our local sports fields are bounded by hedges that have fields on the other side - oh, and she hates children!!!!  I'll persevere.  Luckily, I like walking - unluckily, she likes walking about five times as far as me! 

Hi I am married to a keeper and we both work dogs on our own shoot and quite  afew others, I have never seen a working springer 'with' an undocked tail. I wouldn't have a springer unless it had been docked as it would be too cruel.

I take on board that for SOME Springers, to be undocked is cruel, however, my bitch is over four, came from the RSPCA eight weeks ago and didn't appear to have any tail damage. Amazing how she can be that old and only now need docking!

Maybe she wasn't taken out much and was perhaps kept on a lead. 

No such luck - if she'd been out on a lead all the time, she wouldn't pull like a train!  I don't think she was worked but she's very much got a working mentality and picks up scent the minute we're out the front door.  So far, in the eight weeks since we've had her, she's killed one squirrel and one rabbit (and almost one stupid cat).  I think she's wasted with me and ought really to be homed to someone who will have her outside most of the day but still give her loads of cuddles and kisses.  And not mind the fact that she stinks most of the time.  Fortunately, she's very obliging about hopping in the bath each week!!!!

Working Springers are indeed docked, but normally not quite as short as the show.

I know it's a dog forum and that, see my posts re Keira 5 months old Lab with hip dysplacia, but your vet may have a valid reason for the tail coming off. One of my cats got run over and it was only his tail that was affected. This is joined to the nerves for their bowell and bladder, think of their tail as being part of their spine, as it is. If damage has occured to the tail, best you lose the tail, and keep the dog. Unfortunately Eddie, my cat, lost the nerves to control his bladder and bowell and after a few weeks had to be out down.

Tail injury -   sorry to hear the problems that you are having.  i have been working my spaniel for  six years now, and i have never heard that a working spaniel should have an undocked tail, so that it can be seen!!!  where did you hear that from? All the spaniels that are where i work my dog have docked tails, and  so they should.  even if you don't work spaniels, they have all got that working instinct in them, and will want to push through brambles. if your dog keeps nibbling the end and making it wrose, try spreading some english mustard on the tail (not on the wound) the dog may be put off by the strong smell.  you can then clean the wound yourself. angie dorset

Hi Angie.  Thanks for responding.  I was told by a working breeder/exhibitor that a white tipped tail waving up through the undergrowth would command a higher sale fee than a docked dog.  I hadn't intended to get a Springer and was so pleased to have one with an expressive tail.  The tail is so very much better but she knocks it when she's excited in the house and then it bleeds a tiny bit.  As I can't stop her wagging, the tail is coming off next Monday.  I don't feel good about this - I feel 4 years old is too old to dock. My dog uses her tail to communicate and to balance.  She doesn't nibble her tail any more and only licks it clean, so no worried there, however, can't have it getting infected and can't get it to 100% heal so have to be hard and have it taken off.

Hi tingalay,

A 3 year old GSD we meet regularly on our daily excursions had to have his tail amputated (around two-thirds off :( ) after it was trapped in a door which slammed shut in the wind :(  Fortunately he is almost back to his normal self - the op was 3/4 weeks ago.

Sorry your girl is having to have this done but I've heard of and read about so many ongoing problems when tails have become damaged that it seems to be the best solution in the long term for many such dogs.

Best wishes, Teri :)
  

Hi tingalay, didn't mean to upset you. It would be cruel for me to have an undocked springer as i work them.  I lost my springer 2 years ago due to old age, he was 3/4 docked and still had quite a long tail. As for the breeder that told you an undocked tail would fetch a higher sale price -- the people I know would be put off by an undocked tail no matter how well he worked.

Also I think it's a bit of an old wives tale re. dogs not being able to communicate and none of my dogs have any problems with balance either.

One of my friends Bernese also lost part of her tail through being trapped in a door.

Hope you dog copes OK.  I know it must be really worrying for you.

Take care and give her a big hug from me :d

One of my friends has a chocclate lab who's tail had been trapped in a door- she is now very much docked!! Looks really weird but doesn't stop her expressing herself, her whole bum now wags.

Also I think it's a bit of an old wives tale re. dogs not being able to communicate

Ditto, I think this is human sentiment being transferred to animals.  I'm sure there's a proper word for it?  

Dogs born with natural bob-tails communicate very well!