one of my pups is being returned to me after a month of being at her new home because the women says she cant cope with her. she is a lovely pup its just the usual puppy things boisterous , chewing ect. the question i have is how much of the payment should i refund to the women i didnt put anything about this in my contract, she has said to me that when i rehome her she would be happy to have some of the money back but im not sure how much as ive never had a pup returned before can anyone help?

Give her all of her money back.  She hasn't tried to sell the pup on - she's returning it to you in a responsible manner and admitting she can't cope with her just being a puppy.  Credit to her.
You can resell her :)

Ditto. It does no harm and gets you a good name as a fair breeder.

But also does nothing to discourage her from going and doing the same thing to another breeder next week ... ;)

M.

It's not about teaching someone a lesson.  I think the lady concerned has already realised her mistake.

It's a bit late to realise her misteak,this means if he take's the pup back he will have to pay to readvertise.And as we all know the older the pup gets the less the sale value is.I would in no way give a 100% refund,I would want the cover price to readvertise the puppy.Or I would offer to sell the pup for them.But at the end of the day if you buy a pup from someone and decide a few weeks later you don't won't it,you should not expect the breeder to buy it back but instead to find it a good home.

I see what Lara is saying, and I have no experience in this at all so it is only a personal opinion, but I would have thought you would need to see how the pup is before giving any money back, as in is it still healthy, has she been feeding it well, has anything happened because of the lady's lack of experience that a pup shouldn't be exposed to? All of these things could effect whether or not you decide to sell it on, or not etc.

As I said I haven't a clue with these types of things (and I hope I never have to find out!) but I know I would want to see the pup before agreeing to anything!

I would suggest that you tell her that you will pay her whatever you get for the pup, minus advertising costs and expenses for keep and any vet bills that may be necessary.

Agree the rate of keep (£xx per week), ensure you get her to sign the pup over to you and sign registration for transfer, and make it clear that as it's the pup's second home, ensuring a permanent home will be more important than monetary considerations.

That would be my advice anyway ...

M.

You should give everything back LESS any expenses you have incurred. Keep a little records. Food etc. Anything you have spent.

I think it is important to be fair to both you and her. I bet you are relieved she has offered the pup back to you.

thanks for your replies. Yes im happy that the women is bringing back the pup its one of the things i did put in my contract that if they couldnt keep the pup they would return her to me to either rehome or keep, im not sure if i will rehome her i may just keep her myself

My only concern would be getting the puppy back, ensuring its papers are transferred back & getting rid of the ex-owner asap!!  A friend recently did the "you will have to pay the expenses" route & a week later the ex owner turned up again (in a taxi from essex to devon!!) & took away the puppy again, saying it was still hers as the breeder hadnt actually given her the money back at that time!!!!  Just give her the money she paid, get puppy signed over & make her sign a contract to say she has no claim in said puppy.

the women concerned has just rang me to say that she wants a friend of hers to have the pup, but will i have her back until 19th December as her friend is in Madrid until then, im willing to have the pup back but im worried this will confuse and unsettle the poor little thing to be brought back here and then have to uproot again after 7 weeks, now im not sure what to do!!!

I don't think I'd want the pup going to a friend of an owner who couldn't cope, especially as it is to come back to you first. If it was mine I'd refund the money and get the pup back for good asap.

ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!

ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!  Get the puppy back. Give her a refund. get her to sign it over permanently to you.  If she wants to give you details of the interested woman then by all means look into it & vet her as a suitable new owner but if this current woman is stupid enough not to be able to cope with a pug puppy then i cannot imagine her friends will fare any better! get your puppy back today.

How do you know that she's a suitable home??????  Will no disrespect (We could all do it!  I had one back at 6 months!  My lady ran away with a lorry driver and lived in his cab!  Couldn't have foreseen that one?!) you've got this woman wrong.  It's now even more important for this puppy to be placed in a permanent home!

I'd go any get the pup back now and write a note for you both to sign that says
"I hereby return the puppy .... KC registration number....  back to ...you.., and it is now .....your.... unconditional property"  Return her money and get rid of her!

I recently had the same thing happen to me. They had had the pup 3 weeks and were unable to cope with him. Although they were happy to just hand the pup back without any refund I felt I should offer, so I agreed that if I could re-home him I would send them something then. As it turned out I managed to find him a lovely new home after a month and refunded them about 2/3rds of the original purchase price. I think it is down to the individual really unless you have it written into your contract (which I may well do next time, if there is a next time).

the problem i have now is the pup is legally hers until she signs it back over to me and if she decideds to keep it with her until her friend can have it then theres nothing i can do, im so worried about the pup now

Doh! just replied to your other post.

Do you think that this woman is going to charge her friend the full price for the pup, bearing in mind that they are friends?  I would test the water and offer a full refund and see what reaction you get

ive offered her a full refund but she still wants her friend to have the pup so she can see her and walk her still apparently!!

If this is the case and the pup is legally hers even though you sold the pup with a contract theres not a lot you can legally do if she happens to hand over or sell the puppy to her friend has she transfered ownership into her name yet?

I feel for you I really do, what a sad situation :(

You could tactfully point out that the contract you had with her was that the pup should be returned to you if she could no longer keep it.  Although the contract may not be legally binding, mentioning it might just make her think twice about handing the pup over to a friend. 
It will need careful handling though - good luck :)

agree to what she has said that you will look after the pup until her friend comes back, but say you must have the KC papers at the same time just so u can get the rest of the free insurance or something like that, and then keep it.  after she has left and the papers are back in your name send her some money back saying that either you have kept it or a member of your family now has it

I would do just as Sam says, remind her of the contract and tell her you are keeping the puppy yourself (even if you do not intend to do so).  Say, by giving it back to you, she can be sure it is in it's final home and remind her that unless her friend is an experienced pug owner it might fail again.  Tell her she can have a full refund and come visit any time she likes ;).  When she has signed the pup over shut your door and never let her over the threashold again.

Does anyone know what you have to do to make a contract legally binding?

I pretty much certain that you can't.  In the eyes of the law once a dog is bought and paid for it belongs fully to the new owner in exactly the same was as a car, fridge or pair of shoes.  Charities often use "adoption" for a "donation" which leaves them with rights over the dog but I can't see many direct puppy purchasers accepted such an arrangement I know I wouldn't.

As far as I know, and I studied contract law, a contract IS legally binding in the law of Torts and fully enforcable, all the best, Dawn

But the contract must be fair, and putting restrictive clauses in may not be considered fair..........

...but presumably people who didn't think the restrictions were fair wouldn't sign the contract in the first place ?

Sadly that happens all the time, according to Watchdog and suchlike programmes. Besides, if people want something badly enough they'll sign anything.

I was advised by a solicitor that puppy sales contracts shouldn't be considered as inviolable. :( The sale of puppies falls under the Sale of Goods Act, just like a fridge or a pair of shoes, and once money has changed hands and title transferred the seller has no claim on the goods. :(

>a contract IS legally binding in the law of Torts and fully enforcable, all the best, Dawn<

Hi Dawn,

I am afraid this is incorrect. A contract is only binding when it is done properly and fairly.

The " Real" contract that actually legally took place  is the sale of the dog.  When you sell a puppy you enter into a sales contract give full ownership rights to the new owner. Protected and laid out in the 1979 Sale Of Goods Act.

Nobody can insist the dog has to be taken back to the breeder however we should always still encourage it.

If you bought a pair of shoes from M&S they couldn't insist you bring them back when you don't want them. It is the same thing.

...just had this mental picture of M & S desperately looking for good homes for all those unwanted shoes...(sorry :))

ROFLOL :-D

Aah, but remember Dawn, all contracts are agreements but not all agreements are contracts!  I had to repeat that to people most days when I was practising who found themselves in a muddle over contracts..  There are those who make a living getting people out of contracts where not fully legally binding..

Just noticed you are in Edinburgh Spaniel lover :-) not too far. I noticed you said you are qualified  do not you practice ? Just being a bit Nosey.

Hi Blue :)

I did when I first qualified in 2000 but as I did a joint Law and Business degree, I always had an interest in Business and after doing my MBA I decided to take a meander down the business route, made use of a few contacts and joined a large multi-national pharmaceutical firm as an internal consultant.  I still consult with our legal department here if needed and will possibly go back to the law fully one day but enjoy the benefits of my curent job too much - the main one is allowing me to work from home most of the time which is great for the dogs! :D

-Kay

You sound in a similar situation to me. I did my Law degree in Napier , I then got offered the job I am in now which is really a good job , second only to me working for myself and took it , I then did my MBA in Strategic Management in Abertay whilst working, I finished the MBA about 18 months ago.   I didn't go on and do the professionals at the time which I take it you have done if you are qualifed.   I knew I would not actual practice as a solicitor so decided to leave them and go straight onto my MBA as we have turned into a world where " Starategic" qualifications seem to have errupted !! :-)  I used to do Project Management and now do the Management of the projects if that makes sense for a huge international company..

Just wondered :-)