How many of you accept returned puppies? Or do you have nothing to do with them soon after?

Do you mind that some of your pups may have gone into rescue?

Just a few questions, as I'd love to know how some breeders can live with themselves if they have bred a litter and at least one pup ends up in rescue :)

I would doubt any of the regular posters on Champdogs would not plan to deal with any of their breeding that find themselves in need and would certainly mind very much if one ending up in rescue against their well laid plans (as sometimes happens :() so you are probably asking in the wrong place if you want to know how people who don't care live with themselves :)

You don't read my questions properly nor see the intentions of the post clearly.

The question was how many people accept puppies back - simple "yes I do" or "no because..."

I certainly read your post properly your question is perfectly clear and I didn't find it at all threatening.  I chose to add an observation, if you read that properly you will see I doubt any Champdogger will think it threathening.  I think my post also answered your question adequately but if it wasn't that clear of course I would take back anything I had bred and of course I would be very upset if one ended up in rescue.
Now let's sit back and wait to see if you get one single post saying they wouldn't  :)

Yes I do however if they were adult males I try to rehome them direct into a new home as my
male isnt keen on sharing his home with another male rottie.

I microchip and place on the paperwork if this dog is in rescue please contact me,I dont know if they would I can only hope they will.

There should never be a no because (except death or infirmity of the breeder), as the breeder should have back or make arrangements for rehoming of any of their breeding for their entire lives.

I also beleive that breeders should contribute to their breed rescue out of puppy sales as if their own circumstances change (death infiormity etc) they have at least contributed to recue funds that may need to help one of theirs.

Sadly some puppy buyers do not tell the breeder they want to rehome, and a freind of mine learnt  over a year after the event that one of hers had been through rescue!  This si one reason I ear tattoo all my pups so that if one did turn up in rescue I can be traced as it's breeder and take responsibility.

Personally, the puppies I bred are always 'mine' in my mind - I feel I've only loaned them to other people to look after for me. So I'll have them back instantly if the owners need to give them up! I'd be devastated if one of my pups went into rescue - and livid that I'd been betrayed by the people I trusted.

thank you JG, i'm glad you didn't see this as a threatening post :)

Not threatening, no, but really, the attitude that when puppies are sold they're no longer the breeder's problem describes puppy farmers. I don't think we have any on here ...

Well I know of two people who breed dogs, one person on this site, who does not acept puppies once sold. I think it's disgusting and try not to talk to those people anymore but it makes you wonder why people could do it.

Thats awful. I wouldn't dream of having any pups if I wasn't prepared to take any back, after all it is the human that decides to bring them into this world (most of the time anyway).

Ah, so that is why you are asking, although I doubt they are going to pop up on this thread and admit to it :)  If you have had a problem with a Champdogs breeder you could always talk to Admin about it but, regretable though it is, refusing to help rehome a pup is not, as far as I am aware, under the rules of membership but then I don't think the Breed Clubs demand it either and certainly not the KC so I don't see why Champdogs Admin should.

I woukld imagine as in my own breed a breed clubs code of ethics is likely to say 'make provison' for any of their breeding in need of rehoming.

I make it clear to new owners that if they need to rehome their dog for whatever reason that i would take it back and rehome it myself as i have the contacts and experience. I know that you just have to take their word that they will get in contact with you should they need to do this but it doesn't always happen. Luckily none of mine have neither ended up coming back or ended up in rescue (touching wood), I am in contact with all my puppies owners and get regular pics of them. I would never hesitate at having to take one back.

Jeangenie. I agree with you. I have only had 1 litter but I still see each dog as still being mine. Im still in regular contact and Im so proud of each 1 of them.

My friend always accepts her puppies back... to the point where last year she took back a 10 year old dog who's owners were moving and could no longer take care of him.

Yes, at any time in a pup's life.

Yes, definitely and I get most upset when anyone passes a pup onto someone else without my knowlege

~~

>regretable though it is, refusing to help rehome a pup is not, as far as I am aware, under the rules of membership but then I don't think the Breed Clubs demand it either and certainly not the KC so I don't see why Champdogs Admin should.<

I think the Accredited Breeder scheme calls for breeders to take pups back at any time during their lives

That's true but you don't, as yet ;), have to be an accredited breeder to register a litter with the KC.

I have (so far) never had to take a pup back - but of course I would!   In fact, it's on my "if we move list" to make sure that anyone who has had a puppy from me (total of 3 litters in 21 years) would know of our change of address!

Margot

I have a clause in my contract that I should be first contact if any of mine need re-homing for ANY reason at ANY age. I will then either find a home or have the dog back.

Out of interest, has anyone here applied for Accredited Breeder status?

I haven't had a litter since it was introduced but I have the leaflet and think I probably will before I do again as I would like to see the scheme supported.

No, as it stands at the moment I don't have any faith in it.  When breeders of albino Dobermanns can become accredited breeders and those who in the past have bred lots of litters without caring who they sell to, and not all the current health tests available are included I see no point.  It is what they will do in the future, the past is ignored.

I am not going to pay to join something which in effect, lowers my standards.

What do you mean all health tests?  Do you mean all recommended by the breed club?  Some tests do not seem appropriate for some breeds for instance I would not like people to have to anaesthetise their dog for a hip score unless that was appropriate.
Reading the leaflet and application I don't think I would have any problems meeting the requirements but my view is if the scheme is supported and becomes strong and well publicised it could become increasingly more difficult for those who will not meet the standard to attact interest in their litters.

I mean all the relevant available recognised tests for each individual breed.

It's the relevant bit that might be causing the stickiness :)  Are they including all the tests recommended by your breed club?
Mind you there is nothing to say you can't meet the requirements and more! :)  As I say, supporting the scheme could help squeeze out the people who do very little even to the point of not providing lifetime support at least such a scheme raises the minimum.

I always ask for first refusal of my dogs back.  I had one a couple of years ago and I found a home just over a week later.  i didn't take the dog back at the time, but the person who was going to have her went down to the persons house and fell in love with her straight away.  she's had none of the problems that the original owner said that she had and she absolutely adores her.

Up to now this is the only one that I've had to deal with.

It does upset me though when dogs can go to the breed rescue and the breeder not even be advised!

Isabel - you don't have to use a GA to get hipscores.  Cambridge Veterinary College Hospital doesn't use GA, just for one.

Margot

I expect they use a sedative then.  My understanding is this also carries a risk.

I don't think that that is a sufficient excuse not to hip score! - not for potential breeding stock!

Margot

Well I do (apart from appropriate breeds of course)  :)  Years ago my husband used to have to have a regular chest Xray for his diving certificate until this was properly risk assessed and found to be out of balance in the risk/benefit analysis.  Perhaps it is because this is a subjective subject that the KC has chosen to select only certain tests to make mandatory for the scheme.

Hip scoring is a one-off procedure - it is not necessary on an annual basis, and I feel that the benefits of breeding from hipscored parents by far outweighs the risks.

Margot

I don't agree, well not for my breeds anyway :) I was using my husbands annual xray as an example.  BSAC do not request even a one off xray from new applicants these days either.  As there is a subjective element to this I believe the best guide is the breed club, the largest consensus you could possibily get as to the requirements of the breed.  I am not so arrogant as to hold my view as a maverick :) if my breed club told me they considered hip scoring essential I would be the first to comply (or not breed if I felt I did not want to do the test)

You seemed to be making a very sweeping statement, Isabel, implying that All hip scoring was a no-no.   I'm not aware of your breeds, but in both my breeds - Australian Shepherds and Labrador Retrievers, it is imperative that hips scoring is carried out.

Margot

If you are willing to risk your bitch's health (or your dog, that matter) in breeding, I don't think saying you won't risk hip scoring is very valid!
To answer the OP, Yes, I do take back my puppies, I've just taken back a 12 yr old whose owner is ill. One of mine did end up in rescue (her owner had Alzheimer's), she is now happily rehomed with a lovely lady. (the dog, not the owner!)

Thank you Anwen. I think this post went off on a bit of a tangent!

It is nice to see so many breeders will happily take back their dogs but has anyone had the experience of finding out that one of the pups they bred ended up in rescue and what they did immediately after?

Hi Keira, in reading your thread (not the hi-jacked hip bit) it made me wonder about how many people know if their dog has been rehomed or put to a shelter.  I know there is no way of measuring this (e.g. how many dogs given to friends, sold through the paper or PTS) but its really sad how quickly some people decide to get rid of dogs that no longer suit their life.  One of my clients told me last week that she got rid of her dog (a JRT) because the neighbours complained about its barking.  I couldn't believe it - why not treat the cause of barking or maybe even train the dog and keep it occupied when they go out.  it horrifies me the way some people pass their dogs from pillar to post and wonder why behavioural problems arise.  Sorry moan over.

forgot to mention I'm not a breeder and have never had any dogs put in rescue or rescued them myself

The only way to know for sure is to keep in contact will all the people who get pups from you.

Most are glad to keep in contact through their dog's life and after, and a fair number end up becoming close friends. A few don't seem to want to keep up a regular communications but I still give them a quick ring every few months.

If you take the Dandie Dinmont for instance.  No problems with hips as a breed.  They are also at higher than average risk under anaesthetic due to a large soft palatte.  In addition to all that their numbers are perilously low meaning to loose a good dog on the table would not only be a personal tragedy but a serious setback for the breed itself.  I appreciate when people are involved with breeds where hips are an issue this seems all important, and indeed it is, but please no blanket rules :) let the breed clubs guide us.

>apart from appropriate breeds of course
>well not for my breeds anyway

Twice I have made a point of saying I think hip scoring is appropriate to some breeds just not all breeds.

how would you know if your bitch had good hips,if you didnt have them scored?

You wouldn't :) but it somes breeds the likelyhood of that being an issue is considerably lower to the point that the risk outweighs the benefit.

My breed has dangerously low numbers - all the more reason to make sure problems are not spread throughout the available breeding stock.

Dandie have problems and we test for all the appropriate ones fortunately they do not involve anaesthetics :)  Perhaps hips are more relevant to your breed.

I would have thought hip scoring was appropriate to all breeds? Surely to keep the problem out of a breed it is necessary to score breeding stock and only breed from the dogs who have reasonable results? There isnt a problem in my breed, but the average is 12, which in my opinion is not particularly low.

unless its all 0-0=0 ,then there is "some" degree of dysplastic hips.
by not scoring,you can allow a problem to evolve that you wont know about until  its too late.

lets not forget that a dog can have AWFUL hips yet not exhibit clinical signs.

Exactly, and I would add that my breed can also have a problem with anaesthetic - my younger bitch was therefore scored using sedation, and showed no ill-effects. To me, the risks of her having a litter far outweigh the risks from hip-scoring, so I would not breed her without her being scored first.

Hi all, just adding to top of page. I will allways take my pups back, and i had one back last year 4 weeks to xmas and hes still here, and i allso homed 3 more from a lady who was going to live abroad not dogs that i bread, so yes i would take them back and may be look for new owners, i keept the boy i got back as i felt it would not be fair on him to move him again,as he fits in here so well and is much loved. regards debbie.    

Dandies are one of the oldest breeds around.  We have a very health concious club running several health projects and supporting research I'm quite confident if the health committee spots a hip problem creeping in after these last 200 years it will alert the membership immediately :)