Just given Barney and Molly their first raw chicken wings. Barney is getting the hang of it now. ie he is realising that he has to chew and bite it LOL :) but Molly is having a bit more difficulty. She is a 5 month old shih tzu. Is it okay to chop it up a bit for her? I dont want to splinter the bone by cutting it or is it okay. And do you give them the little sharp bit of the wing (whatever it is called) or shall I just let her persevere with trying to do it herself? She hasnt finished teething yet. I am going to introduce the BARF diet gradually over the next couple of weeks and am reading my books that have at last come from Amazon but am getting a bit confused so any extra help would be appreciated. I am searching the site now for tips and have had some from Marie and other posters (sorry am useless remembering names :o) but just as an extra bit of help, can I feed them raw meat without bones to mix the raw veggies in with the meat cos I dont think they will eat the veg on its own? The books say small dogs should just have chicken and pork but what about rabbit and is this just the bones and can I give them red meat without bones? And what other bones can they have besides chicken wings and necks? Or are these bones sufficient? Sorry about all the muddled questions but keep looking at the tennis as well :D
Many thanks Gina

i feed full chicken carcass but for the really young ones i mince it up, they are still getting the goodness from the bone just minced and get onto the whole carcass gradually, first necks then wings followed by legs and finally whole torso.the chicken mince you can buy from places like pets at home have bone minced in there but if you have access to a poultry processing plant and a mincer it is far cheaper.

Hi Cooper
Well Barney seemed to manage quite well and enjoyed his. I eventually cut Molly's into 2 pieces (and threw the boney bit of the wing away just in case) but she still managed to chew it for a while and swallow it whole so I am waiting to see what happens now - if she is sick etc so I gave Barney the other bit. Unless I am told it is wrong I think I will cut hers up a bit before giving it to her. She is such a gannet eats 10 times as fast as Barney and seems to swallow everything whole whereas Barney takes his time and chews and he is 6 times bigger than her :D
I will have to see if I can find a butcher but dont think I will have much luck as mostly supermarkets where I live and work.

Has anyone tried the frozen chicken from the chinese supermarkets? I was going to have a look to see if they did the necks (there is one just down the road from me) as they do all the other bits of chickens I wouldnt think of eating (like the feet urghh)??

Best wishes Gina

Having asked elswhere and got no reply I'll try here, want to feed chicken wings to my lot to help with teeth cleaning, not as a complete diet, but I am worried because infections such as Campylobacter are said to be mainly caught from uncooked or badly cooked chicken meat and that dogs are prone to infection. Can someone give advice on this please. Jackie H

Hi Jackie, Im not going to upset the apple cart by saying yes or no to raw chicken, but I have been doing a lot of research for a friend recently on Coccidia, Giardia, and Campylobactor, and raw chicken is mentioned an awful lot!!

Will look again - it was a Campylobacter site I was looking at and thought it said the main cause was chickens. Looks as if I must do some more research. Jackie H

Have just re-read your post and realise I had put a (NOT) into what you said and thought you were saying it was not mentioned - just shows how easy it is to misunderstand - one little 3 lettered word and I could be off searching for a sorce of chicken bits & bobs. Repeat to myself "I must read with more care" JH

lol :)

raw chicken can harbour a few diseases but if it is frozen,thawed then fed to the dog without being stood ages it is perfectly safe as a dogs digestive system is much smaller and faster than a humans and chances of catching anything are minimal.i have fed it a while with no trouble at all and have friends who have fed it for 20+ years, it is not a new fad it is the way all dogs were fed once.

gina nothing wrong in cutting it up the dog is still getting the same nutrients.i would not throw away the bone though as the wing has a great bone to meat ratio.rabbit is ok to feed also but never feed the offal from rabbits i have found dogs get worms more often than not if fed rabbit offal.

Cooper
I've just bought a load of chicken wings today and frozen some and have kept 2-3 days fresh in the fridge. Is it better to freeze it all and bring it out and defrost it as I need it or is it okay to keep a supply in the fridge?
Many thanks Gina

personally gina i would freeze the lot and take it out the night before you want to feed it and only take out enough for a day if possible.i buy 200lbs at a time and take out no more than 2 days feed to save me on freezer bags (i put 2 days feed per bag) but if possible i would prefer to take the right amount out each evening.even so taking 2 days chicken out at a time i have not had a problem.

A couple of days supply in the fridge should be fine if your fridge is really cold. Don't forget to cover it and keep it at the bottom of the fridge away from other foods. Raw meat contamination is one of the worst for food poisoning :(
If you are worried about sharp edges you could put a chicken wing between two sheets of cling film or something and beat the **** out of it with a hammer to crush up the bones. Good stress buster :)

It's not their digestive system I'm worried about it is the high amount of infection found in raw chicken these days that I am concerened about. I can recall when it was normal to go to the abatoir for tripe or a sheeps head but it is the intensive rearing of chickens that seem to have increased the amount of infection and of course you can no longer visit the local abatoir for supplies you have to use what ever the chicken or turkey factories don't use, which is good as far as not wasting anything is concerned and would be happy to serve it well cooked but raw does bother me. Jackie H

Jackie you would laugh at my two dogs then I have seen them burying pieces of chicken and digging them back up 1 week later with no problems at all. I have until recently been buying my chicken wings etc at the supermarket but now am getting them from my local butcher cheaper who I know and trust. That is about all I can do.

Dogs have a totally different system from us most things don't harm them infact there is belief all the pussy footing about we do is ruining the strong immune system they naturally have.

I know this is a huge debately issue that is why I have not said what I previous fed etc as I feel we all do what we think is right for our dogs and this is 100% fine..I obviously have my opinions but do not wish to even attempt to force them on people..

the things we have to worry about..

Pam :-))

Hi Jackie

I visit my local abbatoir and can get tripe, lights, liver and hearts - no doubt if I asked there would be more things I could buy there

Christine

I have been following a few threads about Campylobacter on another board and chicken is not always the factor.

I know of a story of a lady who's puppy of 6 months just died and they said it was more likely to be caused by swimming in the lake near by her house.

I am not an expert at these things but I have seen more positive than negitive results from the BARF diet. As I have just said earlier to someone else tonight there are risks to most things but when I look at my balancing scales the benefits from the BARF diet far weight out the negitive things. I also would say that until a person is 100% understood about the changes etc not to start until ready. When you have a postive , proactive attitude to it that is the time to change or you will examine and analyze things too closely and you will see things that are not there or where always there.

Hope this makes sense.

I feed my 2 Barf and nothing will change me from it well without major evidence and most certainly not back to what I did feed..

Pam

Pam, I have no intention of feeding a BARF diet, just wanted to use chicken wings or neck as a treat/tooth cleaner. Just as I would not allow my dog into water that may be contaminated I am concerned that I don't feed something that will cause my dogs a health problem. Now I may not know about the state of the water but I do know about the state of raw chicken. But I am interested to hear from people who have fed chicken for some while and how they handle it. Jackie H

Hi Pam

I feel very ready now and it has taken me a few months to wait for the books etc but I am still a bit confused but I shall carry on reading this thread and am searching the site for all the other barf subjects but I hope it is okay to ask for more advice tonight etc as I am determined now that I have started to carry on but am not 100% au fait yet. :)

It is about the raw meat and mixing in the veg where I think I may be going wrong. Tomorrow I was going to start give them both raw meat or fish with veg mixed into it and also a chicken wing for the bones. Is this the right way to start please? Also what vitamins should I give (shall have a look at the book again as well). I have some called Pet-Tabs at the moment from the vet who didnt think I should do the barf diet but when I said I was going to anyway she recommended these Pet-Tabs and I bought 180 from her LOL

Ta Gina

To be honest I think you should join one of the barf groups as they can help . I would also say don't worry about the veggies etc till you are happy and organised...

I would advise starting off just on the chicken wings.. for all feeds and do this for 3-4 weeks and let their body get used to the change,if you introduce everything and the dog has affects you will not know what has caused it..

They generally go through what is know as a "DETOX" some don't but most do there poos are a bit running and slimy so dont' worry and it can be a bit stink for a week or so but wait until about 10 days and see the small poos that dont' stink at all.

they also will drink less fluids so don't worry as they take alot of moisture from the chicken..

If you like I will send you a few links I have and also a few group addys..

Pam

Thanks Pam the info would be great.
I am just off to put the chicken in the freezer and shall bang out the boney bit of the wing as Lara says before I feed them :) Thanks for the advice and I shall leave off the veg until I am sure about what I am doing and do it stage by stage. I must admit I am a very fussy person cooking wise and have 4 different boards for cutting up different boards and my friends laugh at me but I dont like cutting up raw meat on the same board as veggies even if they are washed in between times. Gawd help my husband and daughter if they pick up the wrong board :)

Carolyn thanks for the link will have a butchers (well my idea of a joke :o) later tonight.

Many thanks Gina

Gina forgot to say I would not bother bashing them up if you are worried vut into 3 at the joint then they are quite small pieces. They chewing is great for the dogs neck muscles etc..

I will send links just now.

PS I cut them up with my scissors and feed them out the back they are my "chicken scissors " which have there own place in my tray..

I don't use the chopping boards. but we all have our own methods..

Right off to find links

Pam

Thanks Pam got the links will have plenty to do tomorrow night .. may be tonight ... but
I have been so engrossed with the BARF today I forgot about the Sunday lunch and it is still in the oven :D :D
Gina

PS gina forgot to say best not to over supplement neither to startr with..

I give my lot garlic everyday as natural flea treatment..works for me.

I also give Kelp and evening primrose every couple of days..

but I have got a new one that is a ballace of the all. all the necessary Omagas etc I will forward thatto you also.

A table spoon a day and you don't need any other.. I use it also..

pam

i find if you are feeding naturally you should also supplement naturally.the best stuff i have found in the uk is keepers mix, its a natural supplement with high levels of kelp.take a look at this website.

http://www.provet.co.uk/health/diseases/supplements.htm

Hi
Have you thought of going to one of the BARF seminars
go to
www.rawmeatybones.co.uk
there are seminars going on about these things

Hi Carolyn.
YES, I am going to one of these seminars in a couple of weeks. I would have no problem feeding raw chicken wings to my dogs, except they are such pigs they swallow them whole and I would be concerned about them sicking them up etc... Barf feeding is what I have done for a long time now, at least there are no additives, preservatives, colors, wheat and maize etc... everything dogs are NOT about !!
Dawn.

Hi Dawn
which one you planning to go to??

Hi carolyn.
Me and sue are going to the one in Sutton Coldfield on 17th July, also in conjunction with dog behaviorists.
Dawn.

Hi Dawn
SNAP :-)
myself and 4 friends are going on the same night
hope to see you there then :-)
I will be the one asking the very silly questions.

Oh no Carolyn, more than one champdogger at the seminar!!! they are in for hell !!!! See you there.
dawn.

The latest edition (August)of Dogs Today has a couple of articles talking about BARF. Just be warned though, there are also a couple of articles talking to Emma Milne and I know how she affects some of you who post on Champdogs! ;)
LynnT