Hi there,

This is not a post seeking to obtain advice on a given issue but, quite simply, my way of saying aloud a few thougths which I would like to share with you.

When I started my search for pups in the UK I wrongly assumed that things wouldn't be much different from what they are in my native country (i.e. Spain.) But... alas! it would appear that the world is not so "globalised" after all, and so clashes of cultures are possible (indeed, likely) in this tiny aspect of life.

From my own experience and that of a few friends, I guess that it is no exaggeration to say that In Spain, if you want to buy a pup from a reputable breeder you just need to find one who has puppies available and.. presto! If you're lucky, you can have your pup in a matter of days. Responsible dog owners normally visit the breeder's place to have an idea of the environment in which the pup has been reared but if this and the pup are satisfactory, then you pay the agreed price and... end of the story!. Breeders have no other way of proving that their pups are healthy than by giving you their word. Customers need not go and see the breeder twice or more to get their puppy (to see if they get along with the breeder, etc). Waiting lists are rare and pups are allocated on a "first come first serve" basis and finally, neither the breeder nor the customer really expect to maintain a close relationship during the dog's lifetime (unless, of course, a serious problem arises in the first weeks of the pup being at home) I guess that a short way of putting all this in a nutshell is this: when you buy a pup in Spain it is YOU who select the breeder.

Now, in the UK side of things I can only talk from my experience, but I would say that here it is BREEDERS who actually select the persons who, in their judgment, are more suitable for a particular breed (in Spain this would be regarded as nothing less than an invasion of one's own privacy!!) In addition you are advised to ask from your breeder as many questions as you need concerning the pup's health and evidence of this should be given to you (I'm sure that if you would ask a Spanish breeder to certify in writing that your pup is healthy he'd think that you've come from another planet.) Without forgetting, of course, that at least with the particular breed in which I am interested, breeders do have waiting lists, as I discovered in shock in due course.

Now, if the above sounds dismissive of Spanish breeders this is not my intention. Admitting that perhaps I am generalising out of my own experience my point is very simple:buying a pup in Spain and in the UK is not exactly the same thing. There seem to be two different cultures on this issue which apply both to breeders and prospective owners. So, if you want to buy a pup in the UK from a reputable breeder and you are from a country where you suspect things work like they do in Spain, take my advice for what is worth it: do not make the same wrong assumptions that I did and think of purchasing a pup like a serious exercise.

Alex
  

A very interesting post! 
I certainly chose what I consider to be the best possible homes for my pups and am (fortunate enough?) in a position to be able to do so.! :)

Same here, I actually had to turn down a couple for my last litter, not suitable although they thought they were!

Hi Alex :d :d

It wasn't long ago that I would see pups leaving Spanish homes at 3 and 4 weeks of age!!!!!  That would never, ever, happen over here.  But as you say and you should know being Spanish :d  their culture is different to those of us in the UK.

One thing that I can say in support of the Spanish, is that although they don't accept things straight away they do eventually, come round to maybe the UK/USA/Swedish etc. way of thinking.  Yes it's going to take a long time and it will be hard work but they are getting there.  More and more are slowly beginning to hipscore their dogs, hopefully, as Christine who comes on here is able to get a vet to do it, we will hopefully be able to get them to eye test their dogs.  As I said to you on Sunday, there's only one vet in the whole of Spain who is able to test the dogs and she is the only one who can complete the certificate!

We will get there eventually and maybe as and when the breed is fully accepted over here, hopefully in 2006 and we can get more Spanish judges over they will see how we treat our dogs differently over here.  I know that Antonio since coming to the UK and going to America and seeing how we generally treat our dogs has changed some of his practices.

This is a breed that has lived for centuries and I'm sure that they are finding it hard to accept that they may not be quite as free of problems as they thought.  I have to say as a whole I think the Spanish are wonderful (hopefully I will live their permanently one day :d) and that the breed is the only one for me.

Hi Diane! :) (sorry I don't know how to do the "big smiley")

Yes, I guess it takes time to get rid of the infamous "Spain is different" :). Luckily, as you say, we're not hard-headed :) and have no problem to recognise it when others do things better than we do ;)

Alex

PS Did you receive my e-mail on Monday?

There does seem to be an unwritten code of conduct among breeders in the UK re the prospective owners of puppies and dogs but make no mistake it is not "cut and dried". The following is an excerpt from a Rescue Site:

"entire bitch at 6 years old and living in *deleted* needs to be rehomed.  - She has no problems (lives outside, but clean in kennel) ex-shooting companion who wasn't too good at that sort of thing... excellent temperament and biddable...... Owner needs the room as a new litter has arrived and he wants to bring one of the puppies on"

Totally agree with you, but they are brought up totally different in Spain.

Also over here make sure that the person who is selling them is giving you KC papers and NOT the alternate registration systems papers.  They are not the same no matter how much people try to fool the GP into thinking that they are!

Thanks, Val. I'm glad you've found the post interesting.

Alex

I think primarily it is how the dog is viewed is different.  I can identify with this being of Polish descent, where Polish breeders ahve only really just got itno the world scene sicne the fall of communism.

For probably the last 40 years here in the UK the dog has been viewed in most circles (sadly not in all) as a family member, whereas they used to be viewed more like livestock.  This is still the view in many parts of Poland, and Spain and other countries I suppose also. 

I could not agree that it's so much different in Continental Europe. Well at least not in Slovenia where I live. Most of the breeders that I know have waiting lists and most of them DO have contracts that you (and them) have to sign. Since I can remember dogs have been a part of the family.... mostly in the cities though. In the country side you'd mostly have working dogs.
And not all the dogs in UK are considered family pets..... how about all those retired running dogs that end up in shelters looking for new owners?? How about those hunting dogs (like Beagles and so) that live in the kennels and are only used for hunting?
Over all, I think English people do have a very nice attitude towards their pets :) . Well done! There's only one thing I wish.....  It would be nice if sometimes (some of them) could spend half of that time worrying as much about their kids. I have never ever seen as many completely drunk kids making fulls of themselves in the middle of the night as I have in UK...... where are the parents?

No offense ;) . Just pointing out my observations as a foreigner. There are always two sides of everything. Every nation has it's sins :)

Ory I know what you mean, that' s why I don't think I'll live in the UK forever!  I'm lucky have great parents who have brought me up well.  They don't have lots of money but I've never wanted for anything!  It's a shame that not everyone is like them.  I actually can't believe how different where I live is to where my parents live, they only live 6 minutes away in the car.  The people near them are loving, play with their children, speak to them like children should be spoken to, whereas where I live the parents just shout and swear.  I feel a snob but I could never have my friends from Spain come over and stay with me because I know that they would be shocked by what they would hear.

It's certainly very sad and I don't know why people are the way they are.  I don't believe it's due to poverty, because my parents and many of the people around them aren't better off.

This is digressing from the post but I feel obliged to respond.  Most parents in this country care very much about their own and other people's kids.  We seem to have double standards and hypocrisy in some areas that don't help the situation. i.e. the government will fine and can even imprison parents for not ensuring their children attend school (parents usually turn out to be single mums that are imprisoned from what I can make out) but when their's is a problem with the school itself parents might find it very difficult to get any action or support (think about the bullying problem) very hit and miss dependant on the school.  We have 8 secondary schools in our town and that's a lot of teenagers! From the age of 12 to 18 there is very little for them to do if they are not into sport.  Luckily I have a son who is sport mad but unluckily I have a daughter who isn't.  On the way home from school one of her friends was able to buy a bottle of alcohol from an off-licence.  They wre aged 14 and one of them ended up in hospital and the girls were 'told off' by the authorities but it was me who took the aciton of finding out where they obtained the alcohol inthe first place and reporting it to trading standards.  I think we have a problem with the drinking culture here and the government acknowledges this so why have they extended the licensing hours? 

Sorry rant over but I am fed up as a parent with being made to look guilty for all of society's anti-social problems. I care very much about my children but what is happening in society is not just down to a few dodgy parents, it's condoned and supported by the establishment.

p.s. sorry for spellings but tired now

Hey!

Don't take the title of the thread too seriously!! :)

Regards

oups, sorry for starting a subject that is more appropriate for another Forum..... it just came out in those late hours when I was feeling a bit frustrated :( . I know there are many, many good parents (like anywhere else) and I'm sure eventually schools themselves will take action in educating children about moral values (just to help parents) and educating them about safe sex as well..... way too many teenage parents out there.

Anyway, back to the subject. It is so interesting to see how different cultures around the world see animals. For the ones traveling to let's say Africa or parts of Asia..... I remember my first trip to a slightly remote country. Seeing injured, thin, suffering dogs everywhere around the city made me depressed and ruined my holidays completely. But that's the way it is obviously. Things change very slowly.......

I apologise for my touchy post, I've not been feeling very well this week and on a bit of a short fuse.  Will not comment anymore. :)

I had a serious problem with my daughter and truancey for the last two years of school, but the authorities made me go on a course, but when my daughter wouldn't come home at night the Police could not make her. 

When things got heated one night and I slapped her I ended up with problems with social services.  It was an awfully freustrating time being legally responsible for a teen that I could not in actual fact control, short of handcuffs.

She has just turned 18 and has been working for the past year, ans is as responsible as I could wish???  Quite funny to hear her nagging her brother with exactly my words :D

Unfortunately I feel PC has come into our country and authorities and parents are too scared to do anything, for fear of being sued etc.

I think we have very sad times ahead of us if this continues. 

Sorry, Alex, I know that this isn't re. the original post, but it is interesting to hear peoples views on other subjects :d

spanishwaterdog if you are interested in this teen topic then start a thread on Foo and I will most definitely join in :D

Dont' Worry, Diane, it's nice to hear what other people say on this issue, specially since we plan to have children sooner rather than later :)

What do you mean by PC? Police Culture?

By the way I got developed the photos we took on Sunday and they're gorgeous!!

See you!

Alex

Sorry guys, I'm the guilty person that started this subject :( .... I know it has nothing to do with the title, but was in a bit of a mood that moment. I?m really glad that I'm not the only person that thinks there's something seriously wrong with moral standards and young people (well I'm only 27 myself, but still not a teenager anymore ;) )......

Hi Alex

Politically Correct Culture !!   It does my head in.

Re. the other poster I'm only 34 so not much older than yourself either :d

Alex, I look forward to seeing the photo's.  Margaret has some on her website, some comical ones too, oh and a couple of you and me carrying Carmen and Lydia :d

Hi Ory

Safe sex is not in the interest of some teenagers, it's not necessarily about morals.  If you want to discuss this the invitation is still open to start a new thread on Foo.  I am sure it would be very interesting to hear different perspectives as I gather from posts that there are teenagers on this forum as well as parents and different cultures too.  ;)

Hi Diane!

Thanks for clarifying what PC means!! What's Margaret's web site address??? I promise I'll send you our photos but I'll need to scan them first, as they are in paper!

Rgds

Alex