Does anyone have a bitch on breeding terms?  I mean a bitch from a litter living with someone else and when the time comes have a litter from her?  If so does anyone have a contract that they get people to sign?  Could I possibly have either a copy or could you give me the gist of what you specify can and cant happen with the bitch?  What happens after the litter, do you sign her over to the people who she lives with?

Any help/advice?

Thanks
Lynn

I've only done it once, with a detailed contract, and it still ended in tears.  I don't personally know of any that have worked without some problem, however specific the terms.  None of us know how the other party is going to behave in such circumstances unless the other party is particularly well known - and I thought that I knew the other party very well!
I would urge the utmost caution.:)

If I was you I wouldn't go there.  You can lose people who you thought were friends doing this!!!!   It can be a sad end to a 20 odd year friendship.

Doesn't matter whether it's written, verbal or whatever, there are ways around it and if people are cunning enough they'll work their way around it.

Sorry that I can't give you a more positive reply.  I WOUL NEVER EVER go in partnership with anyone ever again.

I have to say that I would never have a bitch on breeding terms, or any dog in partnership.  My dogs are wholly and totally mine to do with as I wish, when I wish etc etc etc.

No one agrees 100% with anyone about everything and I think if you want a bitch and you want to breed from her either keep her yourself or if you cannot sell her to someone else.

It smacks of having your cake and eating it to me, but heyho I do not breed.

You can always go into a loan of bitch agreement if you can't keep a bitch now, but want to be able to keep your line through her descendants and still have your name as breeder.

You ask the owner at the time the bitch is old enough if they are willing to lend her to you for a litter, and there is a form from the kennel club.

I did this in rather reverse circumstances.  The owners of a bitch now too elderly to rear a litter wanted a litter from their bitch and asked me to breed the litter, and they woudl ahve a pup out of it.

In the event they were unable to take a pup so I paid them the price of a pup for the loan of their bitch.  I wouldn't persoanlly ever do it again as it wasn't a straightforward whelping needing a C section.  If the bitch had died it woudl have been terrible, luckily it all worked out fine in the end, but I would not like to be responsible for someone elses bitch again.

Thanks for the replies.  I do want to keep my lines going but can't realistically have another bitch in the house as I have 4, although 2 are now spayed and are my foundation bitches.  I wouldnt dream of rehoming them just because they are getting on a bit so I thought maybe the answer was a bitch on breeding terms.  I have heard of people doing it and wondered how successful it was. 

Think I will give it a miss......

Lynn

Hi Lynn, I have no personal experience of breeding terms but do know of two instances where the parties fell out after years of friendship, lawyers where involved and in one case a bitch stolen. It must be a very difficult situation for you - don't you have any family members that you could persuade need a new dog :) ??

cant you sell the bitch let the new owners know that if and when they want a litter you will help them pick the best stud and let them know that you would like to buy a bitch back either first or second pick

I have a bitch now on breeding terms (the bitch is in my name but she will have a litter for her breeder when the time comes) and I've also had one out on terms (one of my bitches that someone else had to keep).  Never had a problem.  As long as you write everything down and have a copy each.  I do, however, agree that you should know the other party.  To my mind, if you're friends, and one party goes against the agreement when all was clear and laid out and agreed in the first place, there wasn;t much of a friendship there to begin with.

Debs

There seems to be 2 or 3  ways that a few people use.

1)   The loan of a bitch agreement using the KC form. This isn't probably the best method if selling a puppy to get a pup back from though.

2 ) Selling the pup at a pet price BUT endorsed with a written contract saying that the puppy was sold as a pet and not for breeding. A little papragraph about If in the future a litter is agreed  the breeder will get a pup back from the first litter. Endorsements will remain etc etc. ( there is huge loop holes here legally because by having a sales contract you have sold the bitch, it is however it is used quite often so trust is a big thing )

Another way to do it is to have a "keepers" contract done so that the bitch hasn't been sold, and will remain in your name for everything till you have a puppy back. Never use the word sold in the contract. The person will be the keeper until a litter is born.

I think if you want to, you have to appriciate from day one there is a risk.  You have to hopefully really trust the person.  If things go wrong you have to be able to call it a day also. Some people go to crazy lengths and it becomes about them and not the dog sadly.

My experience won't be of much help even though I have done it myself . I was the buyer not the breeder .  To be honest  all work fine for me .  We both knew each other well, both had legal knowledge so know really where we both stood to the point we actually didn't do any contracts. ( I am not suggesting or recommending people do this though) I made the verbal agreement and stuck by it 100%.

Hi there,

I had a bitch on breeding terms and although it did not end in the problems I've heard about since, it was not an easy time towards the end when puppies had to go back to original breeder. The original agreement we had was that bitch would go back to have the puppies and stud fees, costs etc would be paid by breeder. The bitch would then be signed over to us for no charge and breder would keep puppies. We were so attached by the time she was ready to breed from I could not imagine how either of us would feel to lose her for 2 months plus. I ended up taking 6 weeks, unpaid, off work and having the litter here. When I agreed to have the litter at my house the arrangement was that I would have a puppy to either keep or sell in addition to the mum. As it happened (and i still don't know how!), this changed at the end to the bitch being signed over with no charge but no puppy. I did not want to make a big deal out of it as the breeder was and despite everything still is a good friend. I love my dog dearly and would never part with her but if I worked out the true cost of her including loss of earnings it would be around £3000 in a breed that usualy costs about £600! Only other good thing was the mentoring from a very experienced breeder and the experience itself should I ever wish to breed again.

This type of arrangement Crosby is a good example where  1) it wasn't a fair agreement in the first place ( incuding not being in writing and 2) it  went wrong.

To me this is what I would call a fair agreement.

The ones that seem to go wrong most often ( Not all) are the ones that were not very fair and reasonable in the first place.

I am a great believer only expect someone to agree and do what you are happy to do with yourself.

Oh gosh folks, please note my post should say that was NOT a fair agreement. I think you probably realised that I had a missing word and that my intention was not in favour of this example.

I hope you were paid all your expenses out of the sale of the litter, otherwise it was not a fair thing at all.

Hi I had a bitch on terms and i would never do it again, nor reccomend anyone to do it. It cost me several good friends, three pick of litter puppies and it almost cost me my very much loved girl. albeit to say i have still not got her registeration papers from her breeder.plz think carefully before entering into such a arrangement and make sure you have everything down in black and white.

Hmm, I was considering doing this in the future, but perhaps not.....!

We had an agreement where the breeder got pick of litter this was a very special litter as only this bitch could pass on  the lines, and she was getting to 5 years old, we tried to breed her befor with no luck in the end there was only one puppy, it all ended in tears  as the breeder took the bitch puppy from us as per the agreement, and we were left with nothing

Lynn

I am asuming though that the bitch pup will hopefully be bred from, so I would get my name down for a pup from her, and in a couple of years you will have a grandaughter :D