If it is any conselation, he probably enjoys all the matings.  However, I do feel very sorry for all the bitches, and hate to think waht will happen to the boy when his useful  stud life is finished.
bye
Gwen

Why on earth would anyone cross a Pug with a Cavalier? That's what people did to the original King Charles to create the squashed nose version, from which we had to recreate the Cavalier King Charles!!! If you want a small Cavalier with a squashed nose, buy a Charlie!!!

Ah Lucy but charlies are quite rare so they are obviouly out for the fast buck, no breeding restrictions so the bitch can be bred every season until she dies  :(

Then there is that "cute"(not)name :rolleyes: !

Moomaiden you hit the nail on the head there.

I'll bet if this situation was looked into the pedigree's on either side of this cross are bred on every season with mixed breeds in between to suppliment income.  It happens all the time with people doing deliberate cross breeds.  Pedigree litter £500 per pup, mixed litter 2 named pedigree parents £250 a pup.  It can generate thousands of pounds yearly until the bitch dies or starts producing sub standard pups (even these are sold with the excuse 'I just couldn't bear to have the little thing put to sleep, I knew someone would be along soon to take care of him) and then they charge £250 for that one.

Deffinately not cute.

£250? and the rest!  My local paper had labradoodle litter for sale £400 each :rolleyes:

Ive just found a website for a "breeders" that seem to cross anything and call them designer and have give them rediclious names.  They also state that Cavs are renouned for having heart probs but when you breed them with another breed it waters down this problem.  It astounds me what people get away with.

I am an owner of a 15 week old Pug x Cavalier. I agree with the names they have made for them (Pugalier) for marketing purposes is pathetic, they are simply a Pug x Cavalier. I bought her because I love the look of her and have a friend who has a 4 y.o pug x cavalier and to date has not had any problems with her, it is the most loving and loyal dog I have ever met. I think they are better looking than both the Cavalier and the Pug. If someone wants to buy a x breed dog, then so be it!! Just dont go and buy a Pugalier because it has a cute name and because everyone else is buying one!! My pug x cav does have one problem, it wants to be with me 24/7.

In what way does it look better than the parent breeds?  Of course you can't tell which of the parents any puppy will be most like, but I would like to know the logic here.

On the one hand you have a coated breed and on the other short coated.  I would imagine that the pups would all be short coated in a first generation cross as short hair is dominant.

Body type, one is very chunky and the other should be a sturdy but not heavy bodied dog, so no great conflict.

Heads, one has a muzzle the other is hort nosed with folds around the nose, one has tiny ears the other larger Spanile ears, one has very prominent eyes the other not so.

If you like the Cavalier and want a short nosed breed why not go for a King Charles Spaniel. 

If you like a short coated small dog but a longer muzle why not opt for soemthing like a small Boston Terrier, shose face isn't as short as the Pug?

The only reason I can think of for anyone making such a cross are purely commercial ones.

the pug is relatively uncommon and not easy to breed, but has had some exposure in the media to make them an 'I want' and then the Cavalier has been popular among puppy producers for the pet market for years (though some are not even pure CKCS but crosses with larger Spaniels), they are better breeders and mothers than most pugs, so cash in on the pug fashion, use a cavalier bitch and you get pups easier to rear (few commercial breeders want to devote more than the most rudimentary care) and more of them.

Well said Brianless!  And would all of those searching for/promoting the "Pugalier" wHether they call it that name or not, pleaSe think of the poor Cavalier Mum (and I bet they are ALL born with Cav mums and Pug dads) who is churing our pups season after season.  I am now going to repeat an oft stated mantra on this board in capitals, which is the equivalent of shouting, hoping that some of those sticking up for this proactice will listen -
THERE IS NO GOOD REASON FOR DOING A CROSS SUCH AS THIS, THEY ARE BRED PURELY FOR THE FINANCIAL GAIN OF THE BREEDER, OFTEN SO THE BITCH CAN BREED ON EVERY SEASON, A REGISTERED CAVALIER LITTER ONE SEASON, A PUGALIER LITTER THE NEXT, SO DOUBLING THE INCOME TO THE OWNER..  DON'T BUY THEM, DON'T PROMOTE THEM, IF YOU WANT A CROSSBRED GO AND RESUCE ONE, THERE ARE HUNDREDS. DO NOT PROMOTE PUPPY FARMING - IT IS BAD, BAD, BAD.
bye
Gwen

Well I dont have any problems with X breeds, My mum has 2 Maltese x Shtzu, a Pomeranian X, and a Kelpie X Border Collie.. They are all great dogs and have no problems what so ever!! I understand and also believe that puppy farms are wrong, but to think that every X breed such as a Pug X Cav comes from one is rediculous. Everyone is talking about these puppy farms and saying how bad they are but im yet to see any proof of their existance!! Please provide me with some proof of their existance, i.e video footage, photos and only then will i believe!! It always seems that Breeders and people who are dedicated to their pure bred dogs are the ones being so critical, you are all like one eyed sports supporters saying that their team is the best, we have the best players, every other team is shit!! Or another example, Dont x breed humans you cant breed a English man with a Malaysian woman, Problem 1: English people winge and whine and have an obesity apedemic, english people eat deep fried chips, and are used to cold weather Problem 2: Malaysian people eat asian food and are from a warm climate and to mix the two would be wrong, because it would cause irritable bowel syndrome and the skin could be half bright freckled white and the other half olive coloured, causing one half of the body to be prone to sun burn and skin cancer.

Here & here  & here  & here  & here & here

That enough ? there are court records of prosecutions & BTW the GARDA are the Irish police

Where have you been for the past 30 years or so you must have missed the TV coverage of RSPCA, SSPCA & ISPCA & police raids on puppy farms & dealers. You have missed the court cases for cruelty to animals both in the breeders, dealers & transporters of puppy farmed dogs

You want video footage Here we go try this link

& this one too & this too

Maybe they don't have puppy farms in Australia?

Quote: "Officially they're called designer dog reproduction units but critics call them puppy factories - farms set up to mass produce new breeds of designer dogs with names like labradoodles, spanoodles, pugaliers and spanadors"

I think they do have them too

Where there are people wanting to make a fast buck/dollar/ponud/euro there will be puppy farmers/millers call them what you like

I think this is the most relevant piece of info from a veterinarian (from the australian Puppy farm link):

"There is a concept called 'hybrid vigour' where you cross two different breeds and you get an animal that is stronger and sounder but to do that you have to start with the right genetic material to begin with - and that's not happening."  Dr Zammit says a dog called Jessie is a prime example of the potential problems with breeding designer dogs."

I suspect the reason many puppy farmers, especially in the USA chose to crossbreed was that the pedigree stock they had was of such poor quality that they hoped that for at least one generation the problems would reduce due to hybrid vigour.  Of course they had to make up the silly names and put a spin on them in order to sell them as traditionally muts were freebies.

O.k thanks, I understand that puppy farms exist, looks a lot worse over there than in Australia. I still dont have a problem with cross breeding of dogs as long as it is done in a humane enviroment. From the research have done there are some quality puppy farms over here as well as some bad one's!! Why cant they govern it?? Every pet store should be made to produce receipts of where the pup was purchased from!! And when you register a dog, why cant they ask you to provide a reciept of purchase?? That could help them, they would clearly be able to see how many dogs are coming from what address!! e.g Joe Bloggs has sold 300 pups in 12 months, clearly a puppy farm we will go and investigate!!

Pet stores should not sell live animals period, Are you trying to condone puppies etc being sold by staff who 99% of which haven't a clue about whether the customer is a suitable person to own a pet let alone have any knowlegde about looking after the pet in the store

Pet store puppies left their mothers way too young & have a shelf life of a week or so. Who socialises these puppies, who housetrains them ? No One is the answer They are not from health tested parents & so are less healthy that correctly reared puppies. Ehat happens to the puppies if they don't sell They won't be on sale or return

How can anyone breeding 100's of litters a year give eah mother individual care ? they can't

Don't fool yourself that the Australian Puppy farmers are ethical or fewer in number per head of pupulation in Australian They aren't. They are there too make money not breed healthy happy puppies, there are in the "business"of breeding puppies for low cost & high selling price Nothing else They don't give a minutes thought to the quality of their product just the quantity

I've nothing against accidental X breeds or mongrels I have owned them in the past, but they were all rescues does that tell you something ? Once te novelty has worn off & a new designer cross is fahionable it's out with the old & buy a new puppy. Take a look at your local shelter where the results of puppy farming can be found It might just open your eyes, but given your somewhat naive posts I doubt it

"looks a lot worse over there than in Australia"

Put the words 'Australian Puppy Farms' into a Search Engine. Read the links that come up and then you will be able to revise that statement :)

This link gives a good timeline:
http://www.openrescue.org/rescues/20041031/2004_10_31_.html
If only more people like Auzzie didn't think puppy farming, pet shops sellign pups, and any Tom Dick or Harry producing pups purely for profit was OK or not so bad then there wouldn't be these places. 

Dog breeding would be confined to breed enthusiasts striving to produce the best and healthiest pups that nature and modern knowledge allows. 

It would be harder to buy a dog, but then the 100 a day put to sleep in Australia would be less, and the breeds wouldn't suffer one bitc from the reduction in numbers, as the commercially bred pups do nothing for the gene pool or a breeds reputation.

More importantly anyone deciding to breed would have to do it properly else they wouldn't be able to sell their pups.

"there are some quality puppy farms"   .... That is a contraditction in terms!  No such thing as a quality puppy farm, by definiton puppy farms care only for the end product - the money, not for the pups or the parents.  It is a far from ideal enviroments for the bitches or pups, even if the facilities are clean!  Pups need care, attention and love if they are to go on to be well socialised, well balanced pets.  This does not come from a big commercial enviroments.  Bitches need care and time off between litters, not to be treated as sausage machines.    Cross breeding happens often enough by people who do not take care of thei pets, and thousands are available thorugh rescue, so why deliberatley breed more?  You cannot predict which parent a cross will take after, so most of the sales patter used to market them is nonsense.

"  when you register a dog, why cant they ask you to provide a reciept of purchase??"  where would you be gong to register a dog who is a cross breed?  One of the reasons we are so anti deliberate crossbreed (NOT ANTI CROSS BREEDS THEMSELVES) is because people like you are being conned, you are paying out for something with no verifiable background or health history.  Good breeders of pedigree dogs care deeply about their dogs, pups and the breed as a whole.  They breed the best possible, most healthy pups they can, in the hope they will go on to be wonderful pets (regardless of if they show or not).  You have access to a whole history of the family in the pups pedigree, and years of knowledge and experience from the breeder.  You cannot buy a pup like this from a pet shop!  Many of us are active in rescue for the breed, and have to cope with the outfall from less reputable or caring breeders, and from puppy farms and pet shops.

Commercial dog breeding is legislated for, they have to be licensed with the Local Authority, but lots of Local Authorities do not have the man power or the drive to police the scheme properley.  If you breed more than 4 litters per year you need a breeding licence, and certain Kennel Club regulations are different dependingn on if youu are a licensed breeder or not.  However, as long as people are happy or ignorant enough to buy the products of this trade it will continue, becasue it is unethical not illegal.

WE are not blinded like some sprots fans are (as you suggested in a previous post) we are people who see clearly the harm a trade in puppies does, and are equally against farmed pedigree or cross bred pups, because we think the pups deserve more.
bye
Gwen

Was on a US site recently and the big seller at the moment seems to be Pug x Beagle.  Cant remember what they called it.  Aparently people are flocking to buy them or maybe that is hype to get folk to buy them.
Neeva

Perhaps a Bugle? 

ROFLMAO :D

Or a Buggle! :D

Yep, and I think you will find with the "Pugaliers" the breeders are asking considerably more than you would pay for a well bred Cavalier puppy.
bye
Gwen

god i just realised how thick i am.....i had to read all the posts just to find out what the cross was....oh dear i really must get  to grips with these designer names for what are basically  crossbreeds.....surely if you like either one breed or the other there are rescues that have either or both so you could have the breed you prefer   

Hi, just heard that someone paid £300 for a bassett cross griffon, the mind boggles..........apparently the place he went to specialised in cross breeds!!!!! Jeez

spose the bassett x griffon would be a baffon or a griffett

Maybe they think that is how you get PBGVs?
bye
Gwen

If you cross a hungarian puli with a griffon - do you get HGVs :D :D

Margot

Margot :rolleyes: :D

My friend has Lhasas so when Roy is old enough we are going to cross them to get Collapsos the folding dogs ;)

Not going to really as her girls are being spayed !

LOL Loki and MM! What would my Yankee crossed with my Cav bitch be, a Cockalier? A Yanvalier? Or perhaps a Cavacock?? :-D

What about an American Cocker, crossed with a Poodle/Dandie Dimont - then we could have Yankee Doodle Dandies :D :D D:

Feeling very very silly tonight - if I'm not being silly I think I'll go MAD

Margot

Or a Cavakee :D

LOLOLOL My JD has a Border T girlie friend Hmmmm Bordaliers, Cava Terrors, Cavaders, Kinders, Charders ROFLMAO

Labradoodles can go up to £1,000 in America for £1600.  Fools and their money is all that I can say.

There was some people in Southport that even got the local paper to run a story on their UNIQUE breed of Noodles!!! They charged £600 for a Newfie/Poodle cross!!! I ask you!!! I must be in the wrong game...all I gotta find now is a poodle!!! LOL :D