Hi.  Thanks to everyone who offered advice before but, three weeks on, my Springer is still pulling like a train and walking backwards/standing still/using a double ended lead etc etc is having no effect but to wind her up.  She isn't awful when walking round housing estates but when we're walking along country lanes on our way to footpaths, she is so very excited by all the smells that she gets very frustrated if I call her back etc etc. She's not at all treat orientated so that doesn't work!  She will eat what she's given as a treat but she's far more interested in tracking even whilst shed's chewing!  She is absolutely fine when we turn into our road on the way home but that's the only time.  With the wet/icy weather coming on, I'm concerned about being pulled over - and I don't want to use a Halti.  A dog trainer sold me a double ended lead but it makes no difference.  If I keep stopping still, my dog will stand too and then I make her wait a few seconds, walk on, draw level with her and tell her to come.  If she moves as soon as I move, I make her stand again.  This is OK but I don't have her attention unless I clap my hands.  I don't want to destroy her zest for life or to make her depressed and/or frustrated but I do want her to respect that when she is on the lead, she is not to pull until she gets let OFF the lead.  She is four and is as good as gold when she's off the lead.  I should also add that with the double ended lead on (collar and harness) we have stood, walked the way we've come, I've called her to me, called her a good girl - she hasn't got to grips with the "slack lead is nice, choking is horrible" school of thought!  Oh, and if the lead IS slack and I call her a "good gir"l, she thinks it means "you've been good long enough, now pull my arm out of it's socket"!  Any ideas? 

I could have written this post myself.  Can't wait for the responses.  I change directions and all sorts but as soon as we start off on the way she pulls again.  I stop she stops and waits, I make her walk back to me and she does that eventually but as soon as we start walking she's pulling.  I have bought a halti and spent the walk coaxing her along with her trying to paw it off.  She managed to get the bottom part in her mouth twice and that's how she destroyed the previous two I bought.  It means that when I let her off the lead I have to take the whole thing off.

I have a permanent ache in my left arm and right hip

S'bugger, isn't it?  I've just looked on the Internet at training pages. One was quite interesting - it said if your dog is a fruit loop when you try and get the collar on, ignore the dog and do something else. When the dog is eventually calm enough, try and get the lead on.  With my dog, as soon as I put my JEANS on, she's throwing a wobbly!  My jacket - same thing. Pick up her collar - she goes mad.  I've tried turning my back on her when she's so excited and it does help.  But then it says to walk the dog around the house until it's calm. Then out the house - pull = stop.  To the gate - pull = stop.  In fact, the website says to make like a tree until the dog stops bouncing about.  Now, that's fine, but as soon as I move off, it's pulling time again.  The more often I stand still, the more upset my doggy looks up at me as if I don't love her.  She doesn't understand.  I can't explain to her.  I got her from the RSPCA a few weeks ago and don't want her to either keep this pulling going or to feel upset .  Can't wait for the responses!!!!!

Dogs learn by cause and effect, if they pull and you continue forward then there is no real reason for them to stop pulling is there.

If the dog has rehearsed this behaviour for a long time it will take some time for the penny to drop, after all this has been a successful strategy for them for some time.

Generally what happens is that people are inconsistent and allow their dogs to pull in some situation and not others and so the dog just gambles because the owner generally "gives in" due to things like time constraints etc.

Dog pulls - you keep following = dog continues to pull
Dog pulls - you stop = dog eventually stopping pulling because it don't work, and we know that dogs only do what works.

Three weeks isn't long to unlearn a method which has resulted in rewards for 4 years :(  For your dog, being able to sniff is her reason for pulling, so you may find a headcollar (not necessarily a Halti) may be what you need to gain control of her head.  When you have control, you can reward her by letting her put her head down and sniff, so long as she doesn't pull!

I think that, for four years, she has been driven to walks and let out to go crazy - should have mentioned that she's a rescue dog.  I absolutely refuse to get a headcollar for her as dog's noses are so sensitive.  This is a very sensitive natured little girl who drops and cowers if you accidentally brush your leg against her when you're out walking (and trying to keep her on the kerb).  The last thing I want to do is train her by any methods that will make her feel unhappy. I'm trying to get her confidence. There's got to be something that isn't uncomfortable or treat related that will work. Maybe it's just a matter of time and lots of walks where there aren't such great smells!

If she is pulling into her collar and harness she cannot be that sensitive or at least she is not sensitive to that, nothing wrong in using a headcollar, it will not affect the "nose" if correctly fitted.  Gundogs and hounds that are obsessed by smells find access to those worth the "pain" of the collar and harness.

However it is of course up to you, I would agree that in this particular case a head halter (there are around 10 varieties) would be a useful tool.

Unless she is actually head shy, a headcollar is often more reassuring for a nervous dog - body harnesses can even make a dog too confident and they 'lean' into them......  Different designs often suit different breeds, and most of my Springer owning buddies actually find the Gentle Leader is a better fit for Springer noses and eyes.....

A non-treat orientated spaniel - weird!!! :-D

This could also depend on the treat....  Most commercial treats could be pretty uninteresting, but liver, cheese or hot dog sausage could be a different thing......

Tingalay, please don't dismiss the use of head collars. In my (admittedly very limited) experience they can give a nervous dog a great deal of reassurance.  Our rescue GSD was a nightmare in traffic and only the use of a head collar (Halti then swapped for Dogmatic) saved him.  He never seemed to like it (much bucking and pawing) but strangely, now we have swapped over to collar and lead, he will actually try and put his muzzle through the leather handle of the lead if feeling anxious - which I take to mean he felt safer when he wore his head collar and wanted to feel that old, reassuring pressure on his face.  Probably some of the calming influence came from the fact that I too felt safer and more in control when he wore it and this feeling was transmitted to him. 

I have to admit we had to start 'walking without pulling' training all over again when we stopped using the Dogmatic and sometimes, although he doesn't actually pull, he does the most incredible waltzing movements to the back, side and front - it's like that woman does at Crufts but without the grace (and with occasional profanity). 

Good luck.  Rescue dogs are a challenge but they teach you so much if you're of a mind to learn which you obviously are. 

Thanks for the advice.  I appreciate all the comments that three weeks isn't long enough to re-educate 4 years worth of bad behaviour - I don't expect to have her walking nicely after such a short space of time, I just want to make sure I'm doing it right!  And not pull either me or my 76 year old mother over when we're walking her in icy/wet/muddy conditions.  I've nearly gone over a couple of times and I'm not impressed!  I'll do more research into the Gentle Leader and others.  And as for treats - walked backwards today, dog followed, lead nice and slack, clicked and rewarded with cheese - yum!!!!  Walked forward - yank.  Walked back - cheese - yum. Walked forward - yank. Waved cheese under nose - got attention for half a second before some more interesting smell took dog's interest.  Gave up and ate cheese myself. Very nice organic stuff.  It's OK - we were very close to the car at the time.

http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/2002c/targetting.htm
http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/2002c/llw.htm
http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/2002/pulling.htm
http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/2001/lltotal.htm

Hi tingalay

I think you've misunderstood the stopping/starting method slightly.

Instead of stopping, and then you walking forward to where the dog is....

What you should be doing is stopping, then gently guiding the dog back to the heel position before you start walking again.

Does that make sense?  So the dog makes the correction, not you.

I have 2 other things to say! 

First, like others have said I don't think 3 weeks is long enough to unlearn something she has been doing for 4 years.  With my dogs, which are also a large breed notorious for pulling, it takes at least the whole of the first year of their life for them to stop pulling using this method.  And that's without them ever having 'learned' to pull by me continuing to walk when they reach the end of the lead.

Take heart in the fact that your dog doesn't pull on your road.  This is how it begins.  At first you will be able to walk only in your road without pulling.  Then you will be able to walk anywhere around your area without pulling, as long as you stick to tarmac.  Then you will be able to walk on grass and in the countryside without pulling.  You are at the beginning, so don't feel that you've made no progress. 

Lastly, I think you should reconsider the headcollar.  Used and introduced in the right way, this does not cause pain.  It is annoying to the dog because it cannot put its nose on the ground or have as much freedom as before, but that's all.  As you can see, the stop/start method is a pain in the bum, and to do it for the year or so it can take to work gets very wearing, unless you also have a way of being able to get around quickly with your dog when you need to.

prong collar works nicely for very stubborn dogs , doesn't hurt them either. Not advertising just a suggestions :p

btw about refusing to use a head collar because the dogs nose is sensitive , the gentle leader or any others on the market when put on correctly does not touch the nose at all.

I use the stop and go technique like many others here , my goldens were never very stubborn so it worked well.

Hello onetwothree

I would like to know from you, since you gave me recently good tips on leash training, how you teach your puppy not to pull.  I just start to take my 11 weeks old puppt out and of course would like to do things right, before she developeds a problem.  She is a springer of course as well.  What I noticed is, that when she is not bothered where to go/sniff and I give her a gentle pull, she follows me happily, but, oh, if she WANTS to go somewhere, I don't want her to, then she refuses with all four paws against it.  I normally make some clicking noises with my tongue and wave with the tuna, that makes her coming towards me.

Thanks for your advise, which I appreciate very much!

Regards Bagpipe

What I'd suggest as well as lead training is getting a harness (eg Kumfi stoppull) for when you are in a hurry and just do not have time to train, and need to get from A to B, and save the collar and lead for when you are training properly. It worked well for me and is something i recommend.

Also, get the behaviour good first in the house and garden, and gradually add more excitement and distractions over a period of time.
And use the principle of "eat your greens before your pudding" and insist on a loose lead before you let her off, for a play or exercise, even just a few seconds at first. Don't ask for a sit in this instance, before you let the dog off; you want the instant reward of "good loose lead" and let her off and away! ;)

Lindsay
x

Hi bagpipe,

Well at 11 weeks, everything is new to your puppy.  She has a whole world to discover.  So I think the most important thing to focus on is socialisation and exposing her to lots of different experiences.  Take her in a lift, in and out of automatic doors, into a pet shop (about the only shop you can take them in!), to the vet's for a visit (no treatment) just to get some treats from the receptionist, let her meet other friendly puppies and dogs, but make sure that the play is equal.  Don't let her be bullied or bully other pups.  They should take turns to chase each other, not just one pup chasing the other.  Lots of short play times are better than one long one, because it helps to prevent play from getting too rough.

As for the lead walking - I wouldn't try to train that yet, at 11 wks.  Just don't let her walk forwards and pull you.  Stop walking if the lead is tight and just wait for her to release it so it is loose again, then walk on.  If the lead goes tight, stop walking again.  Walking with a puppy, you have to forget about actually getting anywhere and just enjoy the journey and the process :)  So don't worry if you spend a lot of time standing still, waiting for her to release the lead.  She is experiencing the world while she stands still and you are not rewarding her pulling by moving forwards.

I wouldn't encourage her back to you or say things like "this way, puppy" or do anything else yet.  The reason I wouldn't try to train lead walking yet is because her brain is busy processing all the new experiences she is having, and she needs to do that.  Also because you should be giving treats to your pup for socialisation purposes when you're out at the moment, so she has pleasant associations.  When she is maybe 15/16 wks old, then I would start giving treats when she is in the correct heel position, because I wouldn't be giving them for socialisation purposes by then.

Is that any help?

Hello Onetwothree

Yes, excellent, that is great help.  It  sounds all so simple, but because I never had a dog, I easily do things in meaning it well, but it might  not be necessarily the best for the dog.   So I will stick to that.  The idea with the visit at the vet for a treat is very good :) .   I hope to take her to puppy classes next Tuesday for socialisation purposes. 

Thanks again and regards from

Bagpipe