We have a Cavalier KC pup aged nearly13 weeks.Belongs really to a relative but they handed her over to us due to "pooing" probs.I took her to our Vet who diagnosed a bacterial infection,she had anti biotics tablets for 5 days.In the middle of the 5 days,she pinched some tripe off our Bichon and also a rawhide and tripe chew,the result was all over the floor this morning! Lots of horrible mucous etc. Another trip to the Vet this afternoon and he said her temperature is normal now but her gut isn't working properly yet.He told us to withold Vets wormers for a week or so and to only worm with petshop puppy ones for the time being.He also suggested that we add to her Whelpi milk some small amounts of crushed cereal like Weetabix to encourage the gut to work properly,but not to give her any protein for the time being such as chicken.
Well, the poor little thing doesn't like Weetabix but we are plodding on quietly.
One of our young Bichons is getting Nature diet,well just started really, and I wondered if the Cavalier would like this,and moreso would it be suitable? We have never had a Cavalier previously but I am trying to help my relatives.Any suggestions will be  very welcome!

Hi Anastasia,

That is extremely unusual dietary recommendation plus worming philosophy from a vet who is dealing with such a young puppy who's "gut isn't working properly"   Are you sure you picked him up right????  If so I'd be seeking a second opinion a.s.a.p.!   A diagnosed bacterial infection being treated with ABs is one thing but when the gut has been aggravated still further by the raw hide etc.,  then weetabix is going to make it worse and worming should be suspended unless at the same time as the bacterial infection was established the puppy was found to be heavily infected with parasites :(

IMO, I'd fast puppy for 24 hours, but give plenty of water with added glucose - better still electrolytes.  Next day give poached white fish only.  If tum is settling, continue that for 48 hours with poached white fish and progress to adding some over cooked boiled rice.  Keep a close eye out for any further upset and keep in contact with the vet - a good one :(   I'd never consider giving a sick puppy a random off the pet shop shelf purging product and be seriously questioning a vet that suggested it

Good luck, Teri

Out of curiosity, why is she on Welpi? And I agree with Teri about the weetabix being totally inapproriate and not to worm her with anything till she's feeling much better. If you have to add anything cereal based, try adding baby rice to the welpi, but personally I'd not be giving her puppy milk at 13 weeks of age.

What are you feeding her on at the moment?

Change your vet, doesn't sound to me like he has a clue.  Get your puppy checked out properly by a Good vet who knows what they are doing.

Bev

Thanks to all who replied as we were out of ideas here.Well the Vet,Bob, is OK,I know what he said sounds weird but it did work previously on another pup - the cereal and non protein apparently will get the gut working (more) normally,she wasn't pouring diarroea constantly if you know what I mean, but when she went it was horrible.If she has roundworms they have irritated the lining of the gut and left little holes by their leeching attitude.(Vets words!)Now Panacur paste or drontal will be too strong at the moment but he thinks that a lesser wormer like Sherleys will half clear her out of any worms and then the proper womer next week once her gut has settled.We have great faith in Whelpi milk, as we even give it to the oldies and any of the dogs,it works the same as people fancying a glass of milk now and again.This is the stuff they give to orphans and it has no similarity to Cows milk.Any dog of any age can have Whelpi milk, I wish I had given it to the last sick oldie we had.
We have given her boiled rice with weetabix and some shredded white chicken (he,the Vet,said no protein for a couple of days including eggs)I did try her on white fish but the little beggar wouldn't eat it.
Anyway the dreaded Sherleys wormer has been given and she has kept it down.It was a special pump type thing so no chance of overdoseing.We did it for 2 kilos in weight. I have to admit being very sceptical about this but Bob said it will work,we have the arsenal of proper wormers all here,but we thought he should know best even though he said he knew we would hate using Petshop wormers,but he didn't want to irritate the bowel too much with Panacur etc. I know it sounds weird,but this practice is a teaching one and very big,and this is the owner of it.
Any thoughts on Nature Diet please? As I said I have no knowledge about KCCS so we are desperate for ideas and how to proceed.Are they normally funny with bowel complaints etc?

> As I said I have no knowledge about KCCS so we are desperate for ideas and how to proceed.Are they normally funny with bowel complaints etc?  <

I think you mean CKCS(Cavalier King Charles Spaniel) ?

They have no more digestive problems than any other dog. However I would never give any dog Weetabix & milk when it has a digestion problem as the bacteria will feed on the milk & the Weetabix will irritate the bowel(well that's what my vet told me & he is very clued up)

I would put your puppy on a very bland diet until the problem stops. bland diet is boiled in water white fish/chicken & rice(I cook the rice in the juice from the fish/chicken) Then very gradually change it on to the diet you intend to keep it on & you can at this stage give plain live bio yoghurt which has beneficial flora in it.

The other secret is the size of the meals little & often rather than larger meals so that the intestines are not dealing with large quantities of food

Cavaliers are small dogs but need quite a high protein & energy source in their food especially if they are as active as two of mine are

If you are intending to change to Nature diet don't do it quickly otherwise you will be back to square one

Nature Diet is an excellent food, but if she's just a pup, I'd feed the Nature Diet Puppy one. 

I think I get you - you're giving the Whelpi like you'd give complan to a convalescent human? I thought you were giving it her as a normal part of her diet. My friend uses it to wean her puppies so I know it's okay.

How is she now - is it settling down? It might take a few days and I'd take it a step at a time if I were you.

I think Naturediet would be fine for her once her tummy has settled. Start with a very small amount (teaspoon or so) mixed in with her food and if it doesn't start the diahorrea off again, build up the amount gradually.

Phoebe, You got it in one! Yes it is like Complan or Sanatogen suitable for any dog,I think Moon maiden you are confusing Cows milk or Cows milk products.Whelpi has nothing in it to disturb the balance of any pups digestion.I do know about Cows milk and by products not to be given to pups etc, as we have had lots of different breeds over the years and bred Dalmations.However that was a long time ago and the brain has faded over the ensuing years!:) I do take your point about yoghurt though,I will try this in a day or 2 just slowly - as it helped my last 2 Springers, as they had peculiar guts..Funny thing I found an old (20yrs back) breeders feeding guide that was given to me when I fetched  an English Setter pup, and that said 2 Weetabix with Jersey milk for breakfast.I recall not doing that as I knew the Cows milk could have an adverse effect.Years ago many breeders in the ring used Weetabix to fill out the skinnies,but that was ages back.
Anyway,she seems better and the last poop was of toothpaste consistency.The Vet said the toothpaste consistency comes first and then in a couple of days it should be getting back to normal.. So glad to hear that the Cavaliers (Yes I abbreviated wrongly)have normal functions as I was beginning to wonder,never having had one previously.She is pretty well bred,a sweet little tri colour,the breeder only breeds these.I did phone her up and she was most concerned to find that the owner had handed her to us,but when we explained that they are the panicky types not used to dogs she felt better about this.I know they are hopeless and the pup would just get worse with them.
So far no sign of any worms coming out,I haven't wormed a pup for years with petshop wormers but I think that you will see the result,as the Drontal and Panacur do not normally "deliver" anything resembling worms,although the last Irish Setter we wormed did have them in his poo for several days after Drontal +..Dear God this is so wearing, as I have been watching her day and night,I do hope she will come OK now.One good sign is that she has been playing with the young Bichon,and I don't think a really sick pup would even attempt to play.
I did not realise that you can get Puppy nature Diet, and I am going to try to get some for her.I managed to get the adult version for the other dogs and the cost was 63p each.How many flavours do they do? Is there anything else please that any Cavalier owner can think of in the puppy stage that would help me, as I want to try and house break her as well but so far not getting very far on this.

Here's their website with the full range on - http://www.naturediet.net/products/index.html

My Cavalier is on James Wellbeloved fish and rice as he has developed a slightly sensitive stomach lately, and my puppy will be switching on once the other food is used up. It's very good for dogs with dodgy tummies. I agree with MM, just a bland diet of chicken or fish and rice, and gradually change onto your choice of food. Good luck with your girl, let us know how she gets on! :-)

If you want to get Nature Diet cheaper than that, you can get it for 50p if you order it direct from them on this number:   08700 132 960

I think the Puppy flavour one is slightly more expensive (like 2p more per pack) than the adult ones.

There is only 1 flavour of puppy Nature Diet, but ND say that you can switch to adult varieties at 6 months, since it is such a high protein food.  So your pup won't have to eat one flavour for too long!

Check out their website for more info: www.naturediet.net  It has all the flavours on it.

Thanks for the help to all,also for the links,as I can study the range of products now.One good thing has happened I grilled a piece of Coley fish and the pup seemed to like that far more than the Cod she refused to eat!! Very pleased to hear about the Nature diet fish recipe also.I am a great believer in fish for dogs as it seems (apart from the tinned stuff) to agree with most of them.
Anyway the pup went once this morning - it started off good but then turned soft with some mucous.Then later she did a bit more and that was yellow mucous,I couldn't see any worms but there may have been eggs in there undeveloped.I have stopped the Weetabix as I think that may have not agreed with her - she pinched some of the other pups Purina pro plan pellets and seemed to like those.I also bought some paediatric kaolin with strawberry flavour and gave a 1 - 2 mil of that - I have got Kaogel here but she is repulsed by the taste and spits most back out,at least she accepted the paediatric version and it was only 67pence from the chemist.
She is scrapping with the Bichon,so I am assuming that means she is feeling better!! :)

I still think you should worm her with Drontal + or Panacur.....

Hi

I too think WEETABIX! No! No!

Chicken/Fish and rice is wonderful for binding the stomache. Aswell as the fact that pups love it!

123 I intend to worm her with Panacur next week,I have the paste version all ready, as NO! I do not trust the shop wormers.Last year I had a Spaniel youngster with Colitis problems,and after several sessions at the Vets,the colitis was no better.One day I saw a Tapeworm segment in the motion,you know the inch long things that are blunt both ends and wriggle/YUCK :~).
I telephoned the Vets and the Receptionist said the following >>"Tapeworms,tapeworms -are you SURE it was a Tapeworm???? Only adult dogs get those not pups,just give him some Panacur!!"  ---I was furious and went over to the Vets surgery,and told this "well read" receptionist what I saw >>WAS<< a tapeworm segment. I then saw the Vet and he gave me Drontal + and eventually it was sorted.Unfortunately the Tapeworm in this pup must have caused some damage as the colitis never really went.
Anyway I do not think this little one,the CKCS has a tapeworm,but like you,I never ever underestimate the importance of worming, and pups do occasionally get tape worms,no doubt about it.

Also to the last poster,I have stopped the Weetabix as I am sure it was making things worse.I have switched to wholemeal brown rice and she seems to like that better,poor little scrap.

As tapeworm can be passed on by fleas, any pup that has been bitten by/swallowed a flea is capable of having a tapeworm ;)  EEW!!

Is the pup on Anitbiotics ? I remember when Fagan was ill with tummy probs as a pup the vet gave him anibiotics which made him much worse and his poo went to a watery, mucous state.  I took him back to the vets and they said the antibiotics obviously arent working and they gave me pro-kaolin which is like a probiotic it worked within days and I always use this now when the boys have upset tums :)

Yes she was on antibiotics and indeed I know sometimes that they can make things worse in the "nether" regions including itchy bottoms,but she had to have them as her glands were up and her temp was high so we had no option.
I have found that the Chemist Paediatric Raspberry flavoured Kaolin is doing a good job and moreso the pup likes it far better than Kaogel which is for dogs..I either give it neat or mix it in a spoonful of plain probiotic yoghurt and she licks it.The dose for a 1 year old baby and under is a 5 ml teaspoon but I am giving 1-2mls x 3 daily.Her motions today have been pretty good,formed and not sticky.The bottle of Kaogel cost £12 and the bottle of paediatric kaolin costs 72pence! I am going to ask about pro kaolin though as that sounds good.The pup is going 2 weeks overdue for her 2nd vaccination but there was nothing the Vet could do until she has some resistance to make the Vacc work.He said that giving a vaccination to a sick pup is useless, and,well he may as well squirt it on the floor.

Pro Kolin is good, I've used it...  You can order it online from here:

http://www.petvetcare.co.uk/acatalog/digestion.html

Towards the bottom of the page...

It worked for my boy, but once it was used up it went back to the runny poos. The only thing that (fingers crossed!) has worked long term is the change of diet to JWB.

Thanks I have ordered Pro Kolin.The pup is well enough now to have the full Panacue wormer this coming weekend,so at least I will then know she hasn't any worms.The Vet was please with her today,he said she is looking much better under our care.I felt so proud of her as she is a beauty.Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread,I am much obliged.