My pup turned 16 weeks old today. I work at the weekend, but some of the weekend girls also work in the week and two of them wanted to see my pup, so I thought a nice way to do some socialisation and some training and meeting and greeting would be to take her to the shop I work in. Now, I get frustrated with walking my pup in town, as people seem to think because she is a puppy they have the right to stroke her without asking, and although she is a pup, she is a shepherd, and is almost three stone, and already towers over a male lab in her class who is two months older than her. When I was walking her, people will run their hands along her as we walk by, and I can say politely that my dog play mouths and they need to ask permission first, but people rarely listen. This has left me in a position where my pup, who is a very gentle soul, expects to get attention from people because that is what she is used to, so when a person walks towards her, she will face them to greet them. I took her into the shop and she sat and met the girls I work with in a very calm and controlled way, but I was quite surprised by the reactions of two women customers in the shop. The company I work for sell skincare/bath and body products and are strongly anti-animal testing, have a dog-welcome policy in store and generally presents a very laid back and easy environment. One lady who came in saw the dog, scowled at her and walked straight out of the shop, even though she was just laying by the till area out of the way. A second woman made a huge fuss, as if my pup was about to attack her, just because my girl turned her head to look at her. In no way did she jump up, or block the way for people, and because of their reactions I am left wondering if it was bad etiquette for me to have taken her into a shop? Also, what is it with people's general responce to german shepherds? It beggers belief that they expect to be able to paw all over them when they are 'cute' puppies, but will shy away from them as soon as they get bigger and aren't 'sweet looking' any more (you would be amazed how many people say 'it is such a shame they are going to grow up', while to me a dog is beautiful (and my dog in particular) whether she is 4 months or 14 years!)

If the people who own / manage / work in the shop had given permission, and the dog was not being a nuisance, then it shouldn't have been a problem and it's just the idiot people's problem! I love going into my local newsagent and greeting their GSD who lies behind the counter.

This is just my opinion based on my experience - It's because they used to get such a bad press.  When I was a child, GSDs were to be feared as they were the dogs you saw guarding yards and farms.  I have had GSDs leap at me twice in my life, one was caught mid air by its owner and the other was stopped by the owner shutting the door.  This was enough to condition me to be frightened of GSDs.  These days I know that dog ownership is a different kettle of fish.  for one thing, you never used to take dogs to training schools, they didn't exist.  Although not all owners are responsible, IMO more dog owners are more responsible than years ago.  Also responsible breeders take the dogs' temperament into consideration these days and not just the looks which must have made a big difference.

My children went to a party when they were small and the family had a GSD.  The mum persuaded me to leave the children there.  When I picked them up they showed me a video of my 3 year old daughter riding the back of their GSD, he was so gentle.  I would never have allowed it had I been asked but having seen it I realised that you can't tar all dogs with the same brush.

You were perfectly right to allow the dog in your shop bearing in mind the shop policy.  People need to see calm and sociable dogs like yours to get a balanced view.  Were the horrified women over 40 yrs old?

It's not just GSDs though, other breeds have unfair reputations as well.

Hi,

If your shop has a policy that allows dogs on it's premises, then by no means have you done anything wrong. My very first dog was a German Shepherd, and I am afraid that it is a very common reaction.  I don't know how many years it will take to shake off a bad reputation.  I find Shepherds to be one of the calmest people and dog friendly dogs around, once they have reached maturity.  (That is unless you have bought one from a bad breeder or you have a badly trained one!) As adults they are extremely laid back and tolerant.

I had my Shepherd for 13 years (bless him) and I always got the same reaction.  You have to look at it this way, it is the people that have the problem, not the dog!

Don't let people make you feel guilty because of their ignorance.  You will learn to rise above it all.

Unfortunately NannyOgg, not everybody likes dogs. It's their problem not yours or your dog's so don't let them make you feel guilty about it. I like most random dogs I meet much more than most random humans and would have been delighted to see your puppy in the shop had I walked in as a customer.

I think it's just people like puppies of any breed as they are designed by evolution to be appealing and illicit a nurture response. But once a GSD is grown up, it subconsciously reminds us of a wolf and we are naturally fearful of any large animal who could possibly be a predator/threat. Plus they used to be the 'devil dog' before pitbulls and rotties - reputations like that take a long time to die. Also they are often seen working for the police and as guard dogs often exploiting their aggressive side. It's all a bit stupid I know, but that's the genera public for you. I know several GSD's and they are big soppy dogs who absolutely love me and make a beeline for me when they see me out without my own dogs, but still I'd tend to not approach a GSD I didn't know.

Hi Nanny Ogg
I have 2 GSD one of 7 yrs and a puppy almost 5 months.  It is amazing how people come up to the puppy but always have a tale to tell of someone if not them themselves who were bitten by one of these. To be honest I have seen a man attacked by his own GSD outside my own house many years ago, not a pretty sight, we had to call an ambulance and the police were called to get the dog who by this time had run off.  God knows what caused the attack but it was pretty frightening, I am going back a few years now and as someone mentioned previously dog training is not what it is now, so many breeders bred them for guard dogs so there temperaments were pretty iffy.  But I absolutely adore them, both of mine are as soft and gentle as you could wish for.  But loads of people cross the road to avoid them.  True not everyone loves dogs.

Hi NannyOgg

All I can say, is you'll get used to it. You did nothing wrong, so don't worry about it. You'll be getting to the stage soon, when parents who see you approaching sweep their children into their arms as if your dog is going to have them for breakfast. It is irritating, especially when your dog is friendly, but hey - the dogs don't take offence - just ignore it. The times when people do interact well with the dogs, and the dogs make you proud of them more than makes up for it. Just consider it their loss!
Kat

I will confess to being terrified of GSD's myself.  It started with my sister's boyfriend having a GSD cross when I was very young who would go barmy whenever we knocked on her door and had to be shut away when we visited , then I was chased across a farmyard by a GSD when I was about 8 which terrified me for life.

I managed to avoid them after that, (apart from one at a holiday cottage in Scotland who launched an attack on my sister's Westie meaning I wouldn't leave the cottage for the rest of the week) but my hubby's aunt has one.  Now it doesn't matter how often they tell me how he lets the kids climb all over him and sleep on him and is a big softie, all I can remember is the time we went to go in their house and he went for my hubby who was in front of me (he doesn't like men), fortunately he was being held at the time, but I was still back down the path and running away down the street to the car as fast as you can say "down boy!".

There are many GSD's in the area where I live, unfortunatley nearly all of them are unfriendly.  On one 30 minute walk the other night I encountered 3 who had to be dragged away and restrained when they saw me approaching with Millie (one of them taken into a garden, pushed against a wall and stood in front of so the dog wouldn't see mine), the other two just going ballistic because she dared to walk in their street.  That's three angry GSD's in just one walk to the park and back!

So you can see why they have a reputation, there are many, many instances of unfriendly GSD's.  However!  Just to put your mind at rest, even though I am terrified of them, I know that most of this is a phobia, relating back to that day on the farm that I still have nightmares about now - I also know that if I had been walking down the road on my own the other day, all three dogs would have completely ignored me - it was the fact I had a dog that stirred them, and I was perfectly safe.   I also know that there are many, many lovely GSD's (in the right hands).  I know that they are said to be the easiest dogs to train and can behave beautifully and that its not GSD's as a breed that are the problem, but its a portion of the owners that are the problem.  Where I live they are mainly bought as guard dogs with the intent of scaring people away and the owners aren't interested in training them to behave nicely, which is such a shame.  When I went to collect Millie from her first trip to the groomers at about 4 months, they had her on the floor playing with a GSD.  Although they kept a member of staff there to make sure the (adult GSD) played nicely with her, she was having an absolute ball and he was just a gentle giant and I was really pleased (don't want her to pick up my phobias you see!)

So unfortunately, not all GSD owners are like you.  And although you may only see well-behaved, sociable GSD's, there a hell of a lot out there that aren't like that, as said before above, the 'guard dog' side of them is often exploited and it only takes one bad experience for a person to be put off a certain breed for life.  I have had a lot of bad experiences with GSD's, however I still take each one as an individual - someone at the bottom of my road walks an old one around the town without a lead (yep, along busy roads too, but the dog always sits and waits at the crossing!) so one day I stopped and asked for me and Millie to meet him (he has often been out on his own at the bottom of my road and has tried to follow us home before when I have beat a hasty retreat in the opposite direction so I thought it would be best to force an introduction ready for next time).  Unfortunately this owner has now acquired a fully grown 'angry' GSD that won't allow Millie to walk past with a terrifying full-on tirade which has set me back a bit in my 'therapy!)

Anyway, the point I was going to make was this - don't take it to heart!  I have a Scottie, always 'smiling', wags her tail whenever someone approaches,  always happy....and yet you wouldn't believe the amount of people that will walk in the road to avoid walking past, or pin themselves up against the wall, or swerve.  I think its just a 'dog' that people see and there are an awful lot of people out there who are afraid of dogs - any dogs.  I would have thought that my dog is the least frightening thing out there on the streets today, but no, people are terrified of her - so I would have thought that at least 95% of the people who are afraid of your GSD would also be afraid of my Scottie too - its just a dog thing  and you just have to learn to laugh it off. Look at it as a source of amusement :-D

Welcome to the wonderful world of owning a shepherd nannyogg. You may have seen from previous posts (long moany ones) that this is something that i encounter with my boy Alfie (14mths and HUGE)sometimes on a daily basis and it never ceases to amaze me how wrong some people can be.
At the end of the day, you know that you have a pup with a great temperament and that's all that matters and to be honest i now try looking at it from a different point of view - so what if the vets waiting room suddenly empties when Alfie arrives, at least we get the best seats!! Good luck with your pup and enjoy her :-)

How subtle.

You couldn't have read my long, moany reply properly, I explained that I have had lots of bad experiences - please don't be fooled into thinking all GSD's are angels, just because you have one!  But you would see that I have said that I don't think GSD's are bad because of my experiences however lots of non-dog owners WILL think like that for those exact reasons - and that's why he/she should look outside the box when encountering behaviour such as what happened in the shop - there may be geniune, if misguided, reasons.  I also explained that it happens on a daily basis with my own little terrier and probably isn't a GSD thing at all in most cases, people are just scared of dogs.

Hi Jessthepest. Sorry i think we have got our wires crossed somewhere, i wasn't talking about your post being long and moany i was talking about my own previous posts on here, i was moaning about the way my shepherd is treated sometimes. Was in no way directing my reply at you and didn't mean to cause any offence. Of course i am aware that not all shepherds are angels, mine is ;-) i am also aware that some people have bad experiences with them that affect the way they perceive the breed but on the other hand lots of people are very ignorant when it comes to big furry wolf looking dogs and assume they are going to be aggressive when in fact the chances are that they aren't. Hope that cleared it up for you, if i wanted to insult/argue someone i would go home and see hubby!:-), i certainly would not do it on a chat forum. After all we are all entitled to our own opinions x

Phew, sorry!! I thought that was what you meant, sorry sorry!  Speaks first, engages brain after, big habit of mine! I tried really hard not to offend the GSD owners, but try to explain why some people may think like that by giving some examples but its hard to get it right without still looking anti-GSD!  Which I'm not, but I am scared unless I have met the individual dog but I absolutely know that is my own problem, not the dogs.  Actually no, it was the bad owners problem!

But its because I do empathise with the feeling, because for as much positive reaction my dog gets for being cute and friendly-looking, I get as much negative reaction from people crossing the road too - there are a lot of Asian's where I live and for a lot of reasons as debated on here before they generally aren't keen on dogs so in a ten minute walk to the park I may have to bring Millie close to avoid people who go into a panic, as much as five times, so I do understand the feeling!

To even things up, I am scared of Rottweilers too because there's one right near my house that tries to launch itself over its six foot wall to eat me when I walk past (I haven't walked that way for 2 years! ha ha), but I go to Rottweiler Welfare companion shows where I meet many beautifully-behaved examples of the breed and I even get brave enough to say hello to some of them :-D.  And I'm not scared of SBT's as I have only ever had good experiences with them, I've never seen one have a 'nasty moment' contrary to their reputations and yet it is my happy, friendly Scottie - that loves all dogs - that seems to have an SBT thing.  Whenever we walk past one she goes bonkers which is extremely embarrasing (and the SBT's never react).  However I am working on a theory that she has started going bonkers at any dogs on leads that won't come and play with her - and SBT's are always on leads/harnesses walking close to their owners so it could be that.

But most importantly, a LOT of people hate terriers, and although the only type of dog I have never been afraid of, this is because I have a big dog fear (because they have big teeth and louder barks!) and I am aware that a lot of big dog owners fear terriers and believe they are the worst coz they're horrible and little and yappy and nippy and I completely accept that there could be good reasons for their views ;-)

My shepherd is now 4 months old, and from 12 weeks as well as going to puppy socialisation classes I also took her to rehabilitation classes for dangerous dogs. I did this because I wanted her to get used to aggressive dogs, and for her to understand how to read the body language of other dogs. It also taught me a lot about reading signals from dogs that have issues either with people, other dogs, or both. i must say that there are a number of GSD I have met through that that I know are not sociable dogs. The trainer, for example, owns two GSD's and neither of them can be around other dogs or take to people particularly well. This is nothing to do with the trainer, she has rehabilitated them to a degree that they are entirely under her control, but they both came from such abusive and horrific backgrounds that she was their last chance before they were going to be sent to be destroyed. I must reiterate here that they are not dangerous dogs because they are entirely under her control. She never lets them off the lead in public, and they get free rein in secure areas such as equine sand schools etc. In this class there is a GSD that was used as a guard dog and was chained, beaten and kicked in order to 'make him aggressive'. He is now muzzled in classes, and hates people. He has, thanks to the class, been rehabilitated to a degree that means he can be in an enclosed schooling area with other dogs and is entirely under his owner's control. However, as well as problem GSD's (and I should say here that the class I take my pup to specialises in GSD's so there are more shepherds there than other breeds) an awful number of other breeds are also there, from mastiffs and staffs, to collies and cross-breeds, all with fear aggression issues, and all seeking this form of training as a last chance for them to be homed and find a love and security. I think like Staffs today, GSD's have suffered under a stereotype created by owners who have used shepherds as status symbols (i.e. big aggressive dogs that resemble wolves in our subconscious). They have been unfairly associated with aggression, but a number of shepherds have been and are aggressive as a result of their owners. How many people now do you see walking around with Staffs as status symbols - as part of their image? Because this is something I have noticed, and I think this is similar to what had previously been the lot of dogs like shepherds. I know many, many people with lovely GSD's, and when true to their type and breed, they are intellegent, loving and loyal, but unfortunately there are a number owned by individuals who do not realise that a dog like a shepherd needs to be trained, just like any dog, and unfortunately a lot of dog owners are also oblivious to the DDA. I love my girl, and I do respect that people have an image of the shepherd, I was just upset in this instance that as a puppy, she was met with a few strange reactions considering she was on a leash, she was laying down, and paying them no attention at all apart from turning her head to look. There reaction is, I think, something i am going to have to get used to as the owner of a GSD. I feel more sorry for her though as the general rule of thumb at the moment is that while she is a puppy, and 'cute and fluffy' people expect to be able to touch and stroke her (more often that not without asking my permission), but as soon as she gets to say 6 months old, she will pretty much be shunned and she is unfortunately not going to realise she was only valued by some as a puppy and may still expect that attention. I feel sorry for the dogs in all this, as it is such a shame a breed gets tarnished in this way, but I do respect that there are many people with stories of GSD aggression, and my partner is one of them - he has a scar along his right eyebrow where a GSD bit his face as a child. It is the owners though, and not the dogs that are to blame.

It is important that dogs such as GSDs etc are taught that there will be people who will avoid them as well as approach them and that they need to learn to read people's body language etc.  It is particularly important as otherwise if, for example, they bark and the person avoids them they will learn that this strategy works and will use it more and more.

As well as socialisation with people and dogs who ARE friendly it is important that dogs learn to read people and dogs that are not and do not "react" to them inappropriately.

That is so right and that is exactly why I chjose to take my pup to the rehabilitation classes. She was able to join in the training exercises, but she also learned to be around dogs that were not receptive to her or to me, and that has I think worked wonders for her.