Hi

I've been very interested in all the comments on here about supplementing with FBO rather than cod liver oil.  My 18 month Lab has very mild OCD, which is under complete control with green lipped mussel extract and CLO (as recommended by our vet!!!)  So, obviously if FBO does the same thing, I would prefer to give this rather than the potentially dangerous CLO!! 

So... I've been to good old Holland and Barrett today, and bought 1200mg EPA Fish Oil (as it was half the price of the 1000mg, and was told the extra 200mg would do no harm), and I've got some natural vitamin E - 400iu.  I'm slightly concerned about the vitamin E though, as when I mentioned to the shop assisstant that I thought they should always be given together, she was suprised - is this different for people?  If my dog is on a complete food (Burns), with 50mg/Kg vit E, is it necessary to give this as well?  I'm assuming you can't OD on vitamin E, but there's no point me giving it to him, if there's no need!

Also, I've read about some of you (tohme in particular) giving your dogs vitamin C to alleviate joint problems.  Do you think there's any point me giving this to my dog too, as I notice it's not one of the ingredients in his food?  Don't want to go over the top, giving him all supplements going (when he's doing so well with the 2), but if it might help in the long run, I'll give it a go.

Thanks,
~Clare

Hi, firstly you cannot OD on Fish Body Oil, so no problem there.  Do look at the DHA and EPA levels though, that is what tells you the quality of the FBO.  Personally I find the Healthspan products the purest and best value for money.

Shop assistants, in my experience, do not hold degrees in nutrition etc.

I doubt very much if the Vitamin E in the commercial food is natural, it is probably synthetic, you could ring and ask.  How stable is it and what is its availability in this form?  Again, you really cannot OD on Vitamin E, your choice.  I prefer to give Vitamin E (natural) as it is better used by the body and is more valuable than synthetic.

The only bad side effect of giving Vitamin C is possible diarrhoea if too much is given, again, give to bowel tolerance; it is a natural antihistamine and immune booster too and therefore is, IMHO, a valuable supplement, particularly in my case as my dogs are always travellling and they compete and I have no way of knowing if they produce enough Vitamin C themselves.

Thanks very much for replying - I was hoping you would, as you seem to be very clued up on the subject!

I did check the EPA and DHA - 216mg and 144 respectively, so I assumed this was high enough.

LOL - not expecting shop assistant to be a nutritionist, but I assumed if it was essential to take both together, they'd notice a trend in what people bought, or they'd be trained to advise that people bought both. Hehe, perhaps I'm expecting a bit much!!!!!  I bought natural Vit E anyway, so I'll give it him - but might give Burns a call.

I'll definitely look into giving Vitamin C, I'm sure it'll be worth a try - I'll do some more reading up first though.

Thanks again, I really appreciate your advice!

~Clare

Why do you need to give Vitamin E with fish body oils?   What happens if you don't??

I've just been throwing in a capsule of fish oil with their dinner!

Mrs Mop VitE stops the fish oil going rancid in the body(transfatty acids).There is another bigger reason for this,but i cant bloody remember it,something to do with vitE helping the fish oil do it's job better. But the bottom line is you should not feed omega 3 or 6 without also giving vitE.

Hailey, What do transfatty acids have to do with Vitamin E and.or Fish Body Oil???????

And how does anything become "rancid" in the body?

Mrs Mop, the reason that Vitamin E is given in conjunction with FBO is that they both have a synergistic effect and that, similar to other supplements, if you give one supplement that may or may not interfere with the absorption or availability of another, this happens with both mineral and vitamin supplementation.

The absorption/avilability of Vitamin E to the body can be depleted when one addes FBO to the diet.

HTH

Tohme as you are probaly aware fish oil etc. does not have a long shelf life,to prolong it a little longer it is prudent to add a capsule of VitE to the oil to prevent it going rancid,the same thing can happen in the body. This is what my vet advised and i have also read it in a couple of natural feeding books.

The Vitamin E is added to FBO to prevent oxidisation when exposed to air, hence why FBO is sold in dark bottles and it is recommended that you store in the fridge.

What happens in the body is that lipid oxidation occurs which is similar but not the same, the term rancid is technically a misnomer I believe.

I still don't understand your reference to TFA

"Mrs Mop VitE stops the fish oil going rancid in the body(transfatty acids)."?

Could you elaborate?

Thanks

Tohme i'm not a scientist and to be honest nor am i in a mood for tit for tat.I am just passing on information i have learned along the way. I'm sure your able to do your own research if your truly genuinely interested.

None of this changes the fact that vitE must still be given with EFA's :)

Well I am sure that I am not the only one who wants to gain from the information you have learned, I thought sharing was the purpose of this board?

Clarification after all can only be a "good thing" otherwise we could all post "I'm sure your able to do your own research if your truly genuinely interested" :rolleyes:

People come here to ask questions and obtain answers after all........

Hello
Could someone please tell me how much 'Fish Body Oil' I would give my dog and how often ( Capsules) and also how much Vitamin E and how often?
On the bottle in Holland and Barrett it says 'Fish Oil' nothing about body is this the correct supplement?
                                Thanks

Mine is from holland and barrett - it's called EPA fish oil, but I did ask them and they said it was fish body oil.

I'm giving Dexter (32Kg lab) 1200mg of fish oil a day (1000 would have done, but 1200 was on offer) and 400iu natural vit E, as advised on this thread.  As I understand it you can't overdose on these.  For a smaller dog I'd imagine you can give less. 

~Clare

Hi Clare
Thanks for your reply.
I went into Holland & Barrett yesterday and they had a special offer on the fish oil capsules (1000 mg). A large container which is normally thirty pounds is going for fifteen. I was going to buy them but thought I'd better make sure they were the correct ones.
                                                Best Wishes
                                                     Jean

Ooooh.. might get some of them for myself, thanks :)
~Clare

If you have a smaller dog then I would look at giving 200iu maximum, HTH

Hi tohme
I have a Large breed dog is 1000 mg o.k?

Sorry I was referring to the Vitamin E, 1000mg of FBO is fine for any size dog, there is nothing to OD on.

HTH

Hi
What mg in Vitamin E should a large breed idealy have?

Vitamin E is sold in iu not mg

200 iu for small dogs 400iu for large

Choose D-alpha-tocopherol as this is the natural type and most easily assimilated by the body, dl-alpha-tocopherol is the synthetic version, cheaper but not so effective.  Healthspan are excellent quality.  Get off the net.

Ms Daisy

I have a large breed and a giant breed and I give them one each of these daily:
fish oil and Vitamin E

IMO, Healthspan's products are really good quality, delivery is free and usually pretty quick.

HTH

In your opinion would I give both daily?
I already give Evening Primrose/Starflower capsules and Vitamin c Tabs would it be o.k to still give these?

Hi All
Thanks very much for all the information you have given.It's been really helpful.

Tohme, do you give fish-oils every day ? I always tend to give less than maximum doses - I'd rather do that than overdose. Fish-oils I know can't be overdosed, but, at present I only give mine fish-oil twice a week (1000mg). Is there any real benefit in giving it more often ??

Daisy

You can give Evening Primrose/Starflower oil as well as FBO.  The two have differing EFAs, the former is rich in Omega 6s, however as these usually have Vitamin E in with them I would then reduce the Vitamin E given to 200iu if I was giving 400iu if that makes sense.

Yes I do give Fish Body Oils every day, because they are anti inflammatory, good for circulation not to mention brain activity therefore why would I want to restrict them?  If you can find any information on overdosing with Fish Body Oils I would be interested. 

I can see no benefit in restricting access or downside to them having it every day.

Hi All
Thanks very much for all your advice. It's been really helpful.

>but, at present I only give mine fish-oil twice a week (1000mg).<

I doubt that would be enough to make a noticeable difference. I have always given my dogs salmon oil and vitE daily :)

Mmm - but what is the recommended daily dose ? My older dog gets 2 x 1000mg a week. He is only 18kg - but the recommended dose for a human of any size is 1 x 1000mg per day. Surely, then, he is getting enough and to give him the same as humans is unnecessary ??

Daisy

As a matter of interest a lot of commercial foods are jumping on the DHA bandwagon and promoting foods that contain this for puppies to enhance their learning ability and for oldies for brain longevity/joints etc.

So it might be worthwhile looking at their foods and seeing how much they put in their foods which of course are supposed to be given daily.

Also it is really misleading to concentrate on mg when what is important is the DHA/EPA content of the Fish Body Oil; some poorer quality FBOs do not quantify these or if they do it is very low.

As there is no RDA for any species one needs to look at the individual recipient and their needs more than anything else.

The capsules that he gets contain EPA 180mg and DHA 120mg per 1000mg - plus Vit E .74mg - is this OK ??

Daisy

75mg means nothing in Vitamin E terms, look for the iu content ie 200 - 400 iu.

FBO is fine.

Sorry :) 1.1 iu  :)

Daisy