im considering changing to the Barf diet for my Bullmastiff, but im concerned about bones, i have given charlie cow bones before and took it off him as he was crushing it into splinters, i was concerned incase these got stuck in his system or he choked. I now let him chew on a Knuckle, which does last a bit longerand doe not splint the same way. Also what about chicken bones is there a chance these will also cause choking. does it make a difference if the bones are cooked.

Anything is possible!

There is always a chance that bones will cause choking just the same way as kibble etc can.

Children and adults have choked to death on grapes, peanuts etc, does not make them necessarily dangerous.

I have fed raw for over 4 years with no problems whatsoever, however if you feel nervous about it don't do it.

Recreational bones such as marrow bones etc are just that, for gnawing and chewing.

Chicken wings etc are for consumption, they provide calcium via the bones as well as other nutrients via the flesh.

I would never give cooked bones at all.

Never give cooked bones, whether beef bones, lamb bones etc. Heating alters the structure of the bone, making it more brittle and liable to splinter. Fresh raw bones are much safer. Cooked poultry or rabbit bones are particularly hazardous.

Hi , Theres always a possiblity that bones could be dangerous either they're dental bones, butcher bones or non editible bones.

Whenever i run out of bones for my dogs, which are dobermanns, i go to the butchers and buy something and ask do they have any spare bones just for the  dogs and they are more than happy to get rid of them.So instead of going into the bin, they go to the dogs and they give them for free, just an idea.

Dont worry, butchers know what bones not to give such as pork bones which can be chewed into splinters and can cause damage in the thoat and intestines and other parts of the body.

you must NEVER give your dogs chicken bones, they are so easy to snap and can get caught in the throat and can do other fatal life threatening damage.

Chicken bones are fine as long as they are raw

Daisy

Hi , Many of the vet's and breeders i have encountered, not to mention professional trainers which i have known for years suggest that chicken bones are dangerous raw or cooked.

But with many respects the welfare and health of your dogs are entirey up to you.

>But with many respects the welfare and health of your dogs are entirey up to you.

Yes it is and that's why those of us that choose to feed Barf, thorougly research it before embarking upon it and would never impress our views on others before we obviously have no knowledge or experience of it.

As for butchers knowing what bones "not to give". When I first started feeding Barf and spoke to my local butcher, (who also had an abbotoir out the back) he didn't have a clue what I wanted and said to me that as long as I advised him on what I required he would provide it. But as far as feeding dogs a raw diet was concerned, he reckoned he knew more about vegetarianism :D

It's not unusual for Vets to be anti Barf. I have encountered many. But this doesn't mean the diet it bad. a good percentage of Vets are not dieticians, their forte is animal medicine - 2 completely different things in my book.

Are professional trainers generally educated on the Canine diet? My breeder of 30 yrs wholeheartedly endorses raw. If chicken bones were dangerous raw (they definitely are cooked) then there would be a lot less dogs in the world.

Raw chicken wings are the staple diet of most dogs fed BARF!

Those of us who choose to feed raw have no problems feeding chicken bones (drumsticks, thighs, carcases, wings etc), turkey, duck, pheasant, quail, partridge, pork, beef, lamb, venison or any other meat we can get hold of.

Not sure what a "dental" bone is?

Butchers, like many breeders, vets and other people either do not "recommend" or are under the illusion that this method of feeding is dangerous. 

It is better to get advice on a subject from those who are extremely experienced in it........

Hi, whenever i got my puppies off the breeder, she personaly advised me NOT to give chicken bones as they can be very dangerous.

My Vet also advised me not to give chicken bones or pork bones cooked or non-cooked as they can be dangerous.

Im just passing on what advice and information from what the vet and breeder said to me.

As for person that  stated butchers dont know what bones are dangerous or not, that was plan stupid, of course they know what bones are dangerous and what bones arent.

And Dental Bones you can get from any Pet Shop... it helps keep dogs teeth clean and healthy....

>>As for person that  stated butchers dont know what bones are dangerous or not, that was plan stupid, of course they know what bones are dangerous and what bones arent.

And you know this because you have spoken with every butcher in the country? :)

Butchers are trained in how to cut and prepare carcasses - not as canine nutritionists. ;)

hmmm, for just a topic, people are really  making an issue out of it because i just expressed my views, you gotta calm down.

No i havent spoken to every butcher but i happen to know one and i havent discuss bones with him, but he told me once chicken bones are dangerous to dogs and im going to keep my dogs away from them as my family and friends always have done.

Please tell me when i said butchers were trained for Canine Nutritionists :D

>Please tell me when i said butchers were trained for Canine Nutritionists

You said:

>butchers know what bones not to give such as pork bones which can be chewed into splinters and can cause damage in the thoat and intestines and other parts of the body.

This suggests that they know about canine nutrition and digestion. ;) I would no more ask a butcher for advice on what to feed a dog than I'd ask a vet how to stuff a turkey! :D :D

ROFLMAO JG

lol jeangenie one word to describe you, " loser" lol

Dobermanlord
JG is a long standing,valued member of this board who gives good advice.Bad mouthing and person insults are unneccessary and out of order.
Archer

JG is a long standing,valued member of this board who gives good advice.Bad mouthing and person insults are unneccessary and out of order.
AND against the Terms of Service that you agree to when you post on this board!!

And....

No need to be rude!

Don't worry Margot, DobermannLord has so many problems with her dogs at the moment her sense of proportion has (temporarily?) deserted her.

;)

>And....

May I suggest that you just read these boards for a while instead of casting aspersions on long standing members that have forgotten more than you will ever know :) 

*Note to self* - Next time I visit my Butcher, must remember to remind him that he should know what bones are safe for my dogs :D

Thanks for that info Dobermanlord, fortunately the bones I give my dogs are a) free from the butcher and b) keep their teeth sparkling white and their gums incredibly healthy.

It is good that we all have differing OPINIONS as long as we know that these are not FACTS ;)

Why is it that when anyone raises a question about raw feeding it becomes a bloody argument?  Its put me right off this board and it all sounds soooo childish.  You said, he said, she said....I'm telling my mum
No style of feeding is without risk.  What I find interesting is that all these people that say how dangerous raw feeding is - well you guys are all entitled to your opinions but try telling my hound, who is a picture of health, that you cant feed raw chicken or raw bones or RAW WHATEVER!!!  I really do think that some people should stop having a dig at others and use the board for the method it was intended and that is to share information.  If it aint constructive dont bother.
PS Butchers know NOTHING about which bones are safe for dogs

LOL well my butcher does but then she feeds her dog on a raw diet :D & she's also an organic farmer so all my dog's meat is totally chemical/additive free

Vets are not trained in nutrition(wish they were), they are medically trained in diagnosis veterinary medicine & basis veterinary surgery & ortheopedics(sp)

My puppy was fed on a commerical puppy food by his breeder He now enjoys his veggies & chicken wings etc, pigs trotters are his favourite at the moment, but then he is teething ! He has a glossy coat & so much energy, much more than some others fed on a commerical only diet

You will never get everyone to agree on what is best for their dogs however if your dog is fit & well & enjoys the food then be happy

I don't try to pursuade anyone to change their dogs diet. My dogs look good on what they get fed & rarely go to the vets other than check ups for inherited health problems & my pup for the vaccs etc for his PP & bloods for DNA tests

I feed my puppy on Burns, with a handful taken out and a small spoon of Naturediet put in, purely because I haven't the freezer space in my home to stock up on enough meat to pursue BARF feeding. I would not be against feeding BARF though. Also, I had to consider the practical side of my life - if my dog has to be taken care of by a member of my family, they may not feel comfortable feeding raw meat, but would be ok with kibble. Saying that, my pup gets raw marrowbones every week/2 weeks (depending on when the butcher has them in). These are cow leg bones that he gives me and he cuts them down to size. There is nothing she loves more than eating from her raw marrow bones, and my butcher is a great guy and makes sure there is still some meat on the bone. She loves it, it is great for her teething (she is ocming up to 16 weeks) and if I give her it partially frozen she loves it even better, I think because it cools down those sore gums! She also gets fruit and vegetables, and she absolutely loves apples, with nectarines (stone removed) and carrots coming a close second. I have tried to incorporate as much fresh ingredients into her diet as possible, despite the fact that I choose to feed a kibble feed, and I am very careful about weighing her food so she gets only the recommended amount. BARF seems to be such an emotive subject, and it is a shame people can't respect the choices of others in terms of feeding their dogs. I see nothing wrong in feeding any bones raw - afterall, wild dogs scavage all carcasses for bones whether it is fowl or cattle or game, but I do have issue with cooked ones and I would never feed my dog cooked bones.

>>Why is it that when anyone raises a question about raw feeding it becomes a bloody argument?<<

It's all that fresh meat... makes us aggressive, you know - RAAAARRRR! Sorry, just trying to lighten things up a bit :D

It is a very common misconception that raw chicken bones in particular are dangerous to dogs and it's a long time being put to bed. You should have seen my mum's face the first time she saw me feed my TM pup one - she went white as a sheet! The funny thing is she admitted to me that she used to go to the butchers nearly every day before she went to work and buy my old collie cross either a piece of oxtail, a lamb shank, ribs etc... and give them to her raw as something to do. Dog lived till she was 13 and was as fit as a fiddle - she was going for 2-3 mile walks and swimming regularly a month before she died of cancer.

This subject illicits strong reactions because we all love our dogs and want to make sure we are doing the best for them. Some people just don't like being contradicted as it feels like a personal insult to them. Each to their own.

Oh dear, I have been feeding my dogs chicken carcass containing raw bones for some years now and they have not caused any damage and the dogs look good on it.  My Dobermanns would be very upset if I stopped feeding them to them now .  

However I do not give "marrow" bones as past experience with one of my bitches taught me they were too dangerous as she did damage her intestines eating one of these (not chewing on it but eating the whole thing)

It really is personal choice isn't it :)  If a dog thrives on a particular diet then so be it!  Its the nasty comments from both sides of the feeding fence that I cant cope with recently.  It really has put me off reading this board which is a real shame - there are people out there who may want to post a question and may be put off in case they are shot down or something?!  I always supervise my hound at meal times and when she has recreational bones (as I do with toys), but I am also so convinced that the diet she receives is the very best for her that I am comfortable with what she is eating - be it whole rabbit or a chicken carcass.  I visit 3 different butchers every saturday because they all supply me with different things, only one of them actually knows it is going in my dogs' tummy :D  They can get rather offended in my experience!
If people choose not to feed raw bones then fine (more for me!!!) but they shouldn't necessarily be preached at for their concerns - we all care about our dogs.  That said I do not appreciate scare mongering by those on this board who are against this style of feeding. TIP - anyone who makes direct comparisons between humans and dogs can safely be ignored :D :D
Sarah

It was the general acceptance that you do not feed dogs chicken bones, cooked or otherwise in OUR neck of the woods many, many years ago.  And this was long before the controversy about BARF or raw feeding existed.  The concern at the time was indeed choking and splinters of bone penetrating the gastrointestinal tract. 

But if you have concerns with choking or splintering, then why not grind them?

I've found chicken bones to be the softest and bendiest out of all the rmb's i give my dogs.Chicken necks inparticularly are mainly cartlige. I would choose chicken bones over any of the others if i had to make a choice.