I have an 11month old male westie who is a wild child!  He is hyper active all the time and i do not know how to calm him down.  He also barks a lot when excited and i want to try and stop this nuiscence barking early on.  I had taken him to training when he was about 5 months old and continued with this for around 3 months however due to work commitments i have been unable to take him for a while.  He does know how to sit, stay and can walk no bother on the lead but i am concerned about his barking, jumping up and general wild behaviour.  Is there any tips on how i can calm him down and also any tips on the barking and jumping up thing would be gratefully received!

Hi Dolly,

First:  What do you feed him on? 

A lot of hyperactive/manic behaviour is related to diet, in the same way that children fed large amounts of additives and E numbers have a higher risk of hyperactive behaviour.

Second:  How much exercise does he get each day?

There are some training suggestions but I'll wait till you answer those ?s.

Actually the evidence for children is weak and at best suggests that a small minority of children with hyperactivity/ADD may impove on a changed diet. Is the evidence for dogs any better?

That's interesting jas, as independent tests carried out in schools showed a marked difference in all the childrens' behaviour when given a healthy diet with no additives, the difference was amazing, research has also shown a marked difference when children are given fish oil and evening primrose capsules on a regular basis, this doesn't work for every single child but in the majority of children, more than would be expected by coincidence.

Do11y,

One thing you can do which is very successful, is to 'freeze' when the behaviour occurs, fold your arms and don't look at him (point your nose away ;) )   eg. when opening back door and dog is scrabbling at the door/barking, reach to open it and pull your hand away, wait for the scrabbling/barking to stop (dog will be puzzled :) ) and reach to open the door again, if scrabbling/barking starts again, pull away ;)  this way you are not rewarding the dog for unwanted behaviour.  As a Westie he will catch on really quickly if you're consistant.  You can do the same with other situations, stop whatever you're doing when he's barking/jumping up (its usually in excitement or anticipation, I find) and only continue when he's quiet :)

That test was on 3 year olds, and clinicians could not detect the behaviour reported by the parents. Also there was a increase in bad behaviour reported by parents in the placebo group when the kids were given ordiary orange juice.

You didn't watch the recent Jamie Oliver programme about school dinners, then, when the staff reported huge improvements in the children's behaviour when their diet was improved?

No I didn't, but there have been about 25 proper double blind done on children with hyperactivity/ADD. A few trials did show an improvent but overall the evidence is weak.

>>done on children with hyperactivity/ADD

as i have read it Dill and JG are referring to the improvements seen in schools in general where the diet has been improved and so has the behaviour as a result, not specifically children with those disorders.

People who change school diets are looking for an improvement, so of couse they find it.

What - you're saying it's merely a placebo effect?

:rolleyes: here we go again :rolleyes:

Probably.

As to dogs, the bitter truth for the BARF and "you must feed food X or you aren't doing the best for your dog" lobbies is that most dogs do well on most commercial diets and food allergies & true food intolerance are both rare.

I don't think anyone says 'you must feed X or you aren't doing the best for your dog'.  At least, I don't.  Like I've said on another thread, I do have preferences and I do have foods that I'd recommend other people to try first.  If they don't work for their dog, then of course they should feed something else. 

Most foods don't suit 'most' dogs, that is why the percentage of dogs dying from cancer and other diseases is rising and has been rising since the popularisation of commercial dog foods in the 1960s/70s.  You may not immediately see the effect of feeding a 'junky' food, but your dogs organs and insides will reveal a different story.

Food allergies and intolerances are actually incredibly common.  Signs of food intolerance can be as little as occasional soft stools, or itchy skin, through to a full blown systematic rejection of a substance. It's incredible how you can come out and say something like:  "food allergies & true food intolerance are both rare".  I'm not sure how you can possibly have such knowledge which goes against what most vets would say!

You don't think that any increase (if there is one - personal experience doesn't suggest this) of cancers might not be influenced by the fact that dogs are generally living longer nowadays? In the old days many dogs (and people) died young from other illnesses so didn't have time to develop cancer.

No, I'm talking about an increase in cancers in relatively young dogs.

Can you link to any studies that show an increase in cancers in young dogs?

"I don't think anyone says 'you must feed X or you aren't doing the best for your dog'."

Well I think that impression is often given quite strongly and foods outside a very limited few are regularly rubbished.

JG has explained your perception of an increase in cancers and I'd add that more dogs are investigated now leading to more definite diagnoses.

Can you point at any source for your assertion that "Food allergies and intolerances are actually incredibly common" or that my statement "goes against what most vets would say?

http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/2004/404_pets.html

"But the leading cause of itching and scratching in pets is allergies, says Linda Messinger, D.V.M., a board-certified veterinary dermatologist at the Veterinary Referral Center of Colorado in Englewood. "Allergies are also the most common underlying cause of ear problems in dogs," she adds."

http://www.thepetcenter.com/gen/itch.html 

"Food allergies are so common that pet food manufacturers have invested millions of dollars in research, development, promotion and delivery of "antigen specific" diets to help in the therapy of dogs with food allergies."

http://consumer.vetmedcenter.com/consumer/display.asp?fn=P-NU-F-%5E%5E_Q-allergies2foodFK1BN.xml&dt=K

"Veterinary dermatologists suggest that adverse food reactions account for 1% to 6% of all dermatoses (skin diseases) in general practice and that food is the cause of 10% to 20% of allergic responses in dogs and cats. Food allergy is probably the third most common hypersensitivity skin disease in dogs and cats after flea allergy and atopy."

>Veterinary dermatologists suggest that adverse food reactions account for 1% to 6% of all dermatoses

Turn that around, and you get that 94% to 99% of all dermatoses aren't caused by adverse food reactions.

>food is the cause of 10% to 20% of allergic responses in dogs and cats

And 80% to 90% of allergic reactions aren't food related.

Considering the many things which can cause dematosis, or an allergic response, these are very significant figures.

Just typing "dog" and "food allergy" into Google will bring up many, many responses.  If you type in "dog" and "ingrowing toe nail" you might not find quite so much information.  I wonder why that could be.....

If 200 people report the same incident, it doesn't mean it happened 200 times ... ;)

I think it's very significant that vets say that food can be ruled out of at least 94% of cases of dermatitis. That makes it rarer than the risk of pyo or testicular cancer ...

I'm not going to continue this debate because I think you are seeing what you want to see....

I sit in on behavioural consultations frequently, with different behaviourists.  The first thing suggested to dogs presenting with the problem outlined by the original poster is a change of diet. 

In the vast majority of cases there is a marked improvement in behaviour when they are switched to a more natural diet.  It is a relatively easy and un-time-consuming thing to try (compared to beginning a course of behavioural treatment) and there is nothing to lose by trying it.  If it makes absolutely no difference, then I don't see why they shouldn't switch back to their preferred food. 

It doesn't work for all dogs, and in most dogs the diet change is then combined with behavioural treatment and a combination of the two is usually most successful.  But after only the diet change alone, most dogs show already a marked improvement.

You go ahead and believe whatever you want to believe about the effect of foods on behaviour.  After all, there are still people out there who believe the world is flat.

Food allergies and chronic/acute intolerances etc have become markedly increased in small animals (dogs & cats specifically) of all ages and have been linked to many conditions which over time can lead to several forms of cancer in stomach, bowel and major organs.  Research is becoming more extensive as figures quoted from diagnostic centres throughout the world have come to alarm the specialists in major facilities.  A world veterinary research group has been set up to standardise handling and make prompt diagnosis and identification of common food stuffs most obviously exacerbating major GI and carcenogenic conditions - methinks there's a lot more going on than most people are remotely aware ;)  Early studies quoting figures similar to 123 go back to the 1970's - every few years more findings are published and further studies reveal increases yet again.  Most marked of all has been the globally recognised need to have the WSAVA include GI studies and indeed have them prioritised.

I'm in a hurry but this link may be of interest to some (requires Acrobat) who are more open to acceptance that, whatever their personal experiences, the modern canine population has a problem - diet!

http://www.animal-allergy.com/downloads/Canine_Food_Allergy_Testing.pdf

Regards, Teri

The link is dead but animal-allergy.com is the web site of a company offering allergy testing for animals.

I'd be very intereted in seeing references to any studies saying that food allergies/intolerances have become more common (they may of course be diagnosed more frequently with better veterinary treatment and more frequent visits to the vet). And I'd be especially interested in studies that show "common food stuffs ...... exacerbating major GI and carcenogenic conditions".

>>>The link is dead but animal-allergy.com is the web site of a company offering allergy testing for animals.>>>

Pardon ?  The link's fine.

It takes me to 'HTTP Error 403 - Forbidden' but if you can get it, it may be my firewall

That's food allergies which cause pruritis, rather than food intolerance or food linked to behavioural change. If I remember correctly food is third in the most common groups of allergen and of the food which cause true allergy meat is the most common culprit.

Allergy with pruritis is very unpleasant for the dog that has to put up with it and the owner and vet who have to manage it, but its hardly common except in certain breeds that seem to be genetically inclined to the problem.

hi Dill
thanks for the tips.  I will be sure to try the 'freezing' thing out.  I have also been advised that when i come in at night fromwork and Harry gets excited and jumps up etc, i should ignore him till he stops then pet him and say hello.  I think i will just have to persevere! 

hI there
he is fed on bakers complete for puppy/junior.  I was feeding him ceaser and butchers little foil trays but he was getting the runs quite bad so i switched back to dry food.  The vet did tell me that westies have sensitive digestive systems and that i shouldnt feed him anything too rich. 

He gets around an hours walking each day - split throughout the course of the day. 

Hi

I decided once to try Bakers complete for my girls a few years ago and they went totally hyper on it :rolleyes:

After a few days off it they were back to normal ;)

Lucy
xx

Hi Dolly, Bakers is well known to be one of the 'worst' kinds of food for causing hyperactivity.  It contains many artificial colours and preservatives and, if I remember rightly, sugar. 

I think the first thing for you to try would be to switch to a food which doesn't contain these ingredients.  If you wanted to stick with dry, I'd suggest James Wellbeloved or Burns.  If you wanted to go with wet, I'd suggest Nature Diet.

Here are some links:

www.burns-pet-nutrition.co.uk/

www.wellbeloved.co.uk

www.naturediet.net

Hello Do11y, sorry these posts seem to have turned into debate rather than help for you. onetwothree advised Burns or JWB. I have just sent off for the Burns pack and it is worth getting one I think. You get a booklet and there is a section on allergies, hyperactivity linked to diet etc and they also give you free sample small packs to try out. I emailed them for advice and got a very full reply back the next day. I am on JWB at the moment which took my westie a while to get used to - not liking dry foods - but I am gradually switching to Burns because it has less cereal ingredients than JWB. I put a slither of nature diet with it which Burns says is OK to do, ND being very expensive I cannot use it on its own.

I would look at the diet of your dog first and, if required, modify it along with using some behavioural techniques.

Casomorphine is derived from the digestion of casein and exorphine from the digestion of gluten.  These substances, together with hormones, hormone like substances and pheromones are naturally present in many dog foods.  All have been scientifically shown to alter normal dog behaviour.  Casomorphine and exorphines which are provided by milk proteins and cereals respectively, can trigger behaviour in dogs not unlike giving them morphine or other opiates. 

There has been a lot of research done on this with autistic children and they have found that they can interfere with the activity of neurotransmitters.

Dietary manipulation by excluding milk and gluten products may have have behavioural benefits as well as digestive ones!

Maize (corn) is tryptophan deficient which is a precursor of serotonin; again this may affect your dog's behaviour.

Colourings, emulsifiers, etc may also have an adverse effect on your dog.

Look at providing a diet that contains simple, unadulterated ingredients such as perhaps Naturediet (meat, rice and carrots) or Burns.

Then look at your dog's behaviour and yours, what are you doing that is triggering/reinforcing the behaviours that you do not want.

Are you rewarding your dog with attention (verbal/eye/body contact), if so perhaps you need to ignore the inappropriate behaviour and reward and reinforce the behaviour that you do want so that it is clear to the dog what works and what does not.

HTH

tohme,

Add to that the fact that when your food isn't being digested properly, or its actually poisoning your system and affecting your ability to digest anything, you can feel tired, hyper, absolutely rotten or starving all the time and its hardly surprising that what we feed our dogs can have a real effect, after all they don't usually get the variety of food if fed a complete every day ;)

Actually jas, I was referring to many of the studies done with children of school age, some with ADHD, many with behavioural problems or learning difficulties, many simply unable to concentrate.   There are also studies on prison inmates which show great improvement when changes to the diet are made.  I suppose you've never heard of Food and Behaviour Research?

Do11y,
Glad to be able to help, it can be so daunting if your not sure how to approach the problem :)

Yes, the study that found parents (including parents of children on the placebo) reporting a change in behaviour that the clinicians could not demonstrate.

jas I'm struggling to understand here.  Are you saying that Food and Behaviour Research have only done the one study then?

Sorry. I was thinking about the Food Commission study done on children in the Isle of Man.

I can't see any substantive research from the Food and Behaviour Research site. They have links to journal articles and links to media articles. I clicked through the first half dozen pages of journal articles and didn't see anything to suggest that food allergies or food intolerance are common, or to show that additives increase hyperactivity. To take a quote from one paper (Bellisle F. (2004)) "Deleterious behavioural effects have been suggested; for example, sucrose and additives were once suspected to induce hyperactivity, but these effects have not been confirmed by rigorous investigations."

Obviously you are only looking for what you want to find - that diet and behaviour aren't linked.  There is a wealth of information on the site concerning the links between poor diet and behaviour, also concerning dietary supplements.  Of course if you prefer to discount research by Oxford and Durham Universities and others of the same calibre .....

I'm afraid that the Hospital Dietician and Consultants I see regularly for my son simply wouldn't agreee with you, they've seen the effects of poor/inappropriate diet too often to count, and many children suffer because their parents can't see that diet affects growth, health and behaviour.

No I'm quite prepared to say that I'm wrong if you can reference serious work from Oxford & Durham Universities that proves the point.

That suggests that only information available on the net has any validity.

Quite the opposite for the average site found through Google. Any recent studies will be available on Medline but if they aren't I'm happy to ask my vet to look up other journal references.

Perhaps this is of interest?

But that refers to Feingold who started the whole thing about additives in the 70's

Current research can be found on the site below, it holds a lot of information.

Food and Behaviour Research

they collect, collate and fund research into all forms of diet and behavioural links, its easy enough to read about ADHD and DCD, in addition to dyslexia, dypraxia etc. they find it all.  Many of the studies are published University studies.  So fairly serious ;)

Interestingly the effects of fish body oils on children with behaviour problems and ADHD were discovered by accident while researching the effects of supplementation in children with developmental coordination disorder.

I don't know what to think about complete diets for dogs, as a Springer we housed  had terrible aggression problems, and he was on Bakers,so I stopped Bakers but nothing happened,he was just the same.
One thing I do recall that seemed to work was FLOWER ESSENCES for Dogs.I used the Bio(?) ones for dominance but they also have ones for Hyper/anxiety states.I gave it (7 drops x 3 daily)dropped into a small spoon of yoghurt,also on a piece of biscuit.It took about 4-6 days and yes I did notice a good effect.If you type Flower essences for dogs into Google search it is amazing nowadays how many there are.

That is the site you sent me to before.

Hi Do11y,

An excitable young Westie that barks a lot is not uncommon!  Food advise aside, there are a few simple things you can do to moderate his behaviour.

Jumping up - ignore him.  He's jumping up to get your attention, don't give him any. When he jumps up he should become "invisible" to you.  Do not pet him or talk to him until he has all 4 paws on the ground or is sitting still.   Be absolutely consistent in how you and your family behaves toward him and he will respond.

Barking.  Now, that's a tough one.  Usual advise is to teach your dog to bark on command.  Then you teach him to "shush" or be quiet on command.  If he's barking for your attention, however, you can use the same technique for jumping up.  Pay him absolutely no attention of any kind until he is quiet.  

Calming down tips?   The above will help - but so will age.  In the meantime, wear him out with a lot of play and exercise. :-) 

Stacey

I see.  You obviously have FAR higher standards for SERIOUS research papers than both the hospital consultant and the chief dietician. 

Hi Stacey

Thanks for the advice!  I am trying to do the ignoring thing and have told my parents to do the same when they come and visit as Harry gets really excited when we get visitors!  I can see a slight difference, therefore i am going to stick at this one until he is calm whenever someone calls into the house.  I dont know what to make of the diet side of it tho, as i hav tried harry on lots of diff food - both wet and dry and he seems to be the same no matter what i give him.  I realise that he is till a puppy and just wants to play all the time but at the same time, a little calmer would be good! 

I'd say, definitely take him off the Bakers - his insides will thank you for it!

And when you switch to a new food, make sure you give it a good chance to take effect - it often takes at least a month for you to begin to see changes.