i was walking storm yesterday my 13 week rough collie puppy, he is great off the leash but if i see a peron or a dog he goes back on the leash, yester day me and the boys took him to the park , we saw a large gsd further ahead as soom as he saw storm and he barked furoiusly at storm, my wee pupp was terrified but at leas the owner was kind enough to have his dog an a lead and he even aplogised.
10 mins later ther we no one aorund so we were playing tuggt when out of  nowhre another gsd came belting towards up . it immediately pounced on storm who had alrady assumed the submissive position , this dog stared biting storm on the head and standing on him,my poor wee dog was yelping in pain i tried to get the dog off it was growling at me . just then the owner appeared sayin g"dont worry shes very friendly"  I said no shes not shes been biting my puppy, the owner saind oh shes only playing, i said that he dog growled at me when i tried to get it off my puppy, she did not htink what her dog had done anything wrong, i was furious, storm was shaking and the woman waould not apologise, saying well shes has never done that before. is it just me or is it iresponsible not to leash your dog when you see people/dogs cos even if your animal has always been100% you just never know,

It is common curtusicy to put your dog on lead when another you see other, unknowen dogs, but more for your own dogs safety!

However if this dog came from "out of no-where" I'm assuming you didn't see it till too late and therefore the owner may not have seen you.  Although don't get me wrong she is being very irrisponsible.

I am however concernd that you are letting a 13 wk old puppy free run, it will not be good for your puppy in the long run.

For a few minutes it's fine, IQ, and is an excellent way to get a pup used to keeping an eye on and following the owner. It makes teaching the recall much easier! ;)

I agree with JG, I find there is no better way to get a relibale recall than to have the pup off lead as early as only possible. As long as you dont walk far away it will also be easier on the pup than walking on a lead as it will be at the pup's pace. :)

I personally don't like teaching the recall outside enclosed area's ;)  However that's my personal way of training puppies :)  I didn't read the post proberly obviously and didn't see it's only for afew minuet's, of course that amounth of time is fine :)

Sorry but disagree!  It's excellent for puppies to free run, Ice Queen!!!  (As long as they are not sighthounds or husky types!)  At 13 wks the owner is the centre of their world and they won't stray - what better time to practise recalls than now?  All mine have been off lead from this age.

Trina - it's v sad that this has happened.  What you need to do now is to find some positive experiences for your pup with other dogs.  Does he go to classes yet?  He should be - try to let him play off lead with other pups which are friendly, and with other adult dogs which are friendly.  You have to try really hard to search for these positive experiences now, because you only have until he's between 14-18 wks before the window of opportunity for socilisation closes.  Try to find some very nice positive experiences with other dogs to wipe away this horrible one.

edited to say - JG and Goldmali, I hadnt' seen your replies when I typed this!

I don't want to be quick to jump to a conclusion but that is how dogs play. My dogs pounce on all dogs at the park and start chewing there ears , lips. It's true puppys will be terrified but im quite sure he wasn't yelping in pain much more in fear. Dogs also do growl alot when they play rough.

mannyG

If your dogs ran up to mine and started pouncing on them and chewing them and growling aggresssively I'd report you for having out of control dogs, it is NOT how well socialised dogs approach each other, they are a lot more respectful of each other, even if the whole reason they've approached is to play, they give an obvious 'invite' to play to the other dog by their approach and manner, they DON'T rush up and pounce on each other and proceed to bite, in fact i've never seen dogs 'playing' at fighting in an open space where they can run, its usually chase and romp none of which involves biting.

I'm not an experienced dog owner but if a dog pounced on my pup and started growling I would see that as a sign of aggression and of asserting dominance.

Hi
If this happened to one of my puppies I would be absolutely furious!  This is a classic example of how a young pup is attacked by an older aggressive dog and that can teach a young pup fear aggression.  I dont believe that the dog in question has never did this before.  Looks like she was used to taking the dog out at this particular time and not expecting to meet any other dog walkers pup or adult wise.  Very irresponsible of her to let her adult dog run free like that.

I hope your little pup is okay and does not suffer too much trauma from this very nasty experience.

Neeva x

This is a normal way for dogs that are well aquainted to play as there is mutual trust that they will not be hurt.  To do this to a strange dog would be considered serious bad manners and is the reason many young dogs get a good telling off for rudeness when they are over exuberant.

Any adult dog should have been taught how to approcach another gently and in a polite manner from when it was a wee pup and not been allowed to become a canine bully.

Now if the pup had run up to the other dog and jumped all over it, a telling off and perhaps making it roll on it's back offering submission may have been understandable, but not this, which was bullying.

i have a jack russel puppy who is 13 weeks old and i have just started taking her for walks and this morning i took her to a local field which is used a lot by dog walkers and there was a gentleman walking towards me at first i thought he was on his own so i carried on walking towards him with holly walking happy along side me on her lead , then all of a sudden this huge rotwiler came bounding towards us and jumped on top of holly now you can imagine holly was the same size as this dogs paw i bent down to pick up holly as the other dog was scaring her and also with the size of the dog i was worried holly might get hurt as she is only tiny ,as i did the dog jumped up at me well the next thing i am on my back with this huge dog on top of me anyway i seen the gentlemen who was walking towards me come running over he said it was his dog , he pulled the dog off and started laughing well that was it i seen red and went mad but holly was shaking and i was covered in mud and my back was hurting, i couldnt believe it , he said that his dog always jumps up at people and that noone has ever had a go at him about it as he is only being friendly , the thing what really got me mad was he said that the dog has not been on the lead since it was a pup , and that he has not used one in a long time , that dog could of really hurt my pup or me or even worse imagine if it was a kid. i dont mind dogs off leads if they are well trained but that one definatley wasnt.....

^ Is absolutely what i ment brainless , i mean my dogs are just so nice they think all dogs are a part of the family , they do pounce growl and wrestle...

Most puppys that are well socialized love to jump and snap back , hang off there lips and whatnot. If both dogs are friendly it never becomes agressive or taken in a serious matter , just rough housing.

Snip - I don't want to be quick to jump to a conclusion but that is how dogs play. My dogs pounce on all dogs at the park and start chewing there ears , lips. It's true puppys will be terrified but im quite sure he wasn't yelping in pain much more in fear. Dogs also do growl alot when they play rough. - Snip

No its certainly not.  I have a two year old entire male terrier who plays as rough as hell with his pals but always treats pups as though they're made from dresden china, allowing them to take great liberties and always makes allowance for his greater strength and stamina. 

Aww, bless him :)

I agree with you coopers

Just 2 days ago I was in the park with my entire male staffie and he was off lead. I saw a man in the distance with 3 very small dogs (not sure of the breed but were tiny) One in particular was very small and they and the owner started to make a beeline for us. I asked Sox to sit, until I could ascertain the situation (he is very toy orientated and you could stick an elephant in front of him and he would care unless it was carrying a ball!) and to make sure the other dogs werent aggressive. I then noticed that the smallest dog was a tiny puppy. He was 12 weeks old and off the lead and immaculately behaved if a bit michevious! He came bounding over to meet Sox and promptly sat on his toy. Sox was looking at me as if to say "thats my toy mum, and hes put his bottom on it!". I was a bit wary as Sox has never met a pup before. However, this pup started to nibble on Soxs face and just generally puppy playing as they do. Sox just sat and let him dangle off of whatever part he chose to nibble on. When the pup had got bored with the taste of my boy he sat and chewed Soxs toy. Sox then sat and thoroughly washed him. It was so sweet I could have cried :)

He stayed with my mum recently who was also looking after another dog, a Cairn. Again I was concerned because Sox is well socialised but mostly plays with bitches. I was amazed to find them both tugging at opposite ends of the same toy for about half an hour. The Cairn was weaker than Sox and it seemed to me that Sox was aware of this and he didnt tug at the toy but simply held his position. He was very considerate of the Cairn without haveing to assert or fight for dominance, he was just happy to play which was lovely to see.

Its so important to socialise well and teach good manners to animals that could potentially do a lot of damage to one and other.

Quote - "It's excellent for puppies to free run, Ice Queen!!!  (As long as they are not sighthounds or husky types!)"

This is one of the gripes I have with sighthound breeders (or more specifically Pharaoh Hound breeders which is the breed I have).  The majority of them tell prospective buyers that they cannot be allowed off the lead.  Can you imagine a running hound spending it's entire life not being able to run? A lot of people can't get to open spaces which are fenced so therefore these poor dogs spend their lives on flexileads.  Most sighthounds CAN be taught a recall and all mine run free but normally only by letting them off from a very early age. 

Having said this - my two pharaohs I have now both go off the lead and one didn't come to me until 13 months of age and my new girl was 10 months (came over from Sweden on the pet passport) and they have a fantastic recall.  The same was said to people when I had Hamiltonstovare and they were great off lead too.

Debs

If they didn't the hunters in Sweden woudl never get their hunting dogs back.

I would imagine as with mine it pays to be careful where one chooses to let them have free running, it normaly does require a large open space well away from roads as thery range further than your average velcro dog, so you can't see when they may be near to danger as easily.

A lady with Ibiza hounds used to live hearby and walk in the smae country Park as me.  She did once loose two of her dogs because she let two young ones off together not long after having one of them back in her ownership and they went walkabout, but normaly she didn't ahve a problem with a bit of thought and training.

Sadly she moved to the country and lost her young bitch, probably to an over zelous farmers gun, as eh was never found and rarely strayed out of earshot.

Any time we let a dog off lead there is always a risk, but we can do a lot to minimise these and still allow our dogs soem freedom, and we should not underestimate their ability to be trained.  The modern world does make this harder fro those of us with independant minded breeds. :D

I agree and would say that it is bordering on crule to never let a dog run free. A friend had a generally well behaved lurcher, who occaisionally would take off after a deer. He did this right up to his last week, so we decided that he died a happy dog having had that one last chase, aged 14 :D
Yes we were always careful where he was off lead because whilst he would normally come back it was not 100%.

Anyway how many people have dogs that are 100% every single time? I can only think of a very few highly trained dogs and certainly there are a lot of pet owners who would claim to have a totally reliable dog but have been seen occaisionally chasing a dog across the fields. I can stop mine if he flushes a deer but would still not be rash enough to say he is totally reliable - sometimes they just lull you in to a false sense of security :D

>>I agree and would say that it is bordering on crule to never let a dog run free.

:( now i feel like a really bad mommy :(

Sorry I didnt mean to make you feel bad and there is always the exception that proves the rule ;) However I would guess that yours do get to run but with a sled behind them? Sadly I know of sight hounds that have never been allowed off lead anywhere to streatch their legs  

Thanks Bluebell, guess im just having a sensitive day. kids on tattie holidays here :rolleyes:
Yes he will be rig/sled running once he's old enough.not long to wait now only a few more months , guess im not such a bad mommy after all ;) :D

I agree! The best time to let sighthounds off the lead and teach them proper recall is when they are young. Then they lack the confidence to roam too far and they are still anxious to please without the stubborness they develop later. I tell my puppy people that recall CAN be taught but it is best to begin early. Mind you I also tell them that unless you recall them before they get into their stride, an older sighthound will go deaf when it is chasing something, so they can only be let off in safe areas well away from traffic.

Yes, my dogs have all been off lead from the first few days of having them. My bitch puppy is virtually never a problem, and both the boys went through 'deaf' stages but are now mostly reliable. :-)

I always put mine on the lead if I see another dog I don't know - what a stupid woman not to see her dog was being a nuisance. Poor Storm :-(

Abby(Dobe) is only allowed off lead in an enclosed space as no matter what we have tried if she sees a small furry creature she is gone, so she is excercised on a lunge line and cycling. We will continue to try and train her recall.
Mary

Quote - "It's excellent for puppies to free run, Ice Queen!!!  (As long as they are not sighthounds or husky types!)"

I totally agree with you surannon...i have 2 huskies and these dogs were born to run...and run.
If i didnt let them off lead to have thier freedom  (on a huge enclosed field i might add) then they would never get the exercise they need.
All dogs need to get their hearts pounding and there is not one person in this world that can do that with the dog on lead...either walking or running!!!!!!
Dont get me wrong my bitch never comes back when i call her but the dog does everytime....catching the bitch is easy   ( i hate calling her that)   i just grab the boy and walk off.........she soon comes back then thinking im leaving her.
My dog can be nasty towards other dogs but i think that is because he was attacked (while he was on lead) by another male dog and because mine wouldnt stand for it the othe dog came off worse....and i got the blame!!!!!!!!!!
The other dogs owner was a good 5 minutes behind her dog and didnt see what had happened....i was with about 5 other dog owners and their dogs at the time.
so now he gets a bit nasty to other males....but as soon as i see one coming mine goes straight back on his lead and taken away....its only right

Trinabeanbag
I think the trigger in this incident may have been that you were playing 'tuggy' with your pup.When dogs play tuggy then growl and a dog who was close by may have misinterpreted this IMO.
I would save games such as tuggy for indoors....not a suitable thing for a public park
Archer

I agree, I have Basenjis that just love to run free, I wouldn't dream of keeping them on a lead the whole time. When I do let them off it is in a secure field i have to say.