I knew it would happen soon enough ;)

For those that don't know (probably not many of you!!!) we picked our 8 week old Aussie up on Saturday, he is great in every way except his food. The breeder had him on Pedgiree Profesional, which apparently he had no problems with, now obviously I realise that it is expected for them to go off their food, but he hasn't gone off food in general just his complete, he will eat raw chicken till it comes out his ears, he has had a raw carrot, and some dried liver, went down no problem and no upset tummy, but he will not touch his PP.

I think I should keep trying with the PP until the weekend, see how he is, if he still won't take to it, should I be looking at changing his food, maybe keeping him on raw? Or am I just bowing to his commands? I would understand it more if he had completely stopped eating, but he is very food orientated, and will do anything for a treat, and as I say he loves his chicken. Should I stop the treat's and chicken completely, I don't know how it will effect the training because he doesn't seem very interested in his toys.

I am going to give our breeder a quick ring tonight just to see what he says, but wondered if anyone had any ideas in the mean time?

Thanks :D

Hi Natalie - this is just my opinion and others may not agree, but...

I think Pedigree is an awful food.  It contains a lot of rubbish, additives and colouring, it has 'meat derivatives' and 'vegetable derivatives' listed which could be almost anything... Well I could go on but if you're interested, have a look here:  http://www.acorndogtraining.co.uk/nutrition.htm  Or here:  http://www.dogaware.com/

If you want to keep feeding a dry food, I think either Burns:  www.burns-pet-nutrition.co.uk or James Wellbeloved: www.wellbeloved.co.uk  are best.

If you want to try a wet food, I think Nature Diet is the best: www.naturediet.net

HTH.

Yes I must agree, it wouldn't be my first choice of food, but I didn't want to change it too soon, I was hoping to get him on to Autarky eventually, but the way he eat's his chicken with such gusto has convinced me of what he prefers!!

Do you think I should change his food so soon, would I just be letting him get his own way?

Hi Nat

Sounds like the wee man has started training you already ;) :D Clever little blighters, aren't they??

Are you planning to feed Raw in the long term anyway? If so, I can't see the harm in continuing to offer raw especially if he has eaten very little PP in the last few days anyway then it's not like you're changing him straight from one food to the other, as he's already eating more raw than complete, if you see what I mean?

On the other hand, if you want to feed PP for the short term, given that that is what the breeder was feeding, then you know the drill....put the dish down and lift it after 15-20 mins. If you really have to give food for training in between times, then offer bits of the PP.

Best of luck :)

I did think about feeding raw, and then like I said I did decide to try Autarky, I haven't got a clue where to start with raw, or even a rough idea of how much he should be having, and then there is the side of making sure he is doing well on it, and getting enough vit's and everything else, I know he needs more than chicken, but don't know if there is anything he can't have.

Time to hit some web sites and Amazon for some more books I think!

See you next week :rolleyes: LOL

P.S. Thanks every one!! :D

At Tohme's recommendation, on another thred somewhere, I bought 'Natural Nutrition for Cats & Dogs' by Kymythy Schultze (sp?) and 'Give Your Dog A Bone' by Dr Ian Billinghurst. Both readily available from Amazon. The latter is quite difficult to read but the info is all there and, having persevered with it, I found it really useful.

Just be careful with fish!!! I thought I was being a terribly good 'Mum' by giving whole fresh mackeral as a treat. It made several reappearances that day and took a couple of boil washes to get it out of the bedding I'm sticking to tinned from now on!!

I have got some tinned mackeral with tomato sauce (hubbie loves it on toast (YUK!!!) is that any good?

Should be fine...mine much prefer the tomato sauce one to the one in oil :)

Looks like hubbie will have to sacrifice his favourite then!! Oh well.... ;) :P

Hmmm, if someone gave me the option of "Slimfast" for every meal, or Thornton's choccies, I think I know which side I would favour!!!! :D

He is telling you the diet he would rather be on, so why ignore it?

Tohme, I don't want to ignore what he want's but at the same time I didn't want to be taken for a ride by an 8 week old fluffy thing!!! ;)

Looks like I have some major research coming up, if the dog want's raw, he will have it!!! But I haven't got a clue what I am doing....!

[link]http://www.champdogsforum.co.uk/cgi-bin/board/topic_show.pl?pid=573845;hlm=and;hl=raw#573845[/link]

Thanks for the link Tohme, very helpful, and has at least given me a start!!!

Natalie - as Tohme says - would you eat cheese sarnies after smoked salmon????   I know I wouldn't!

If he's eating a chicken wing, he's filled his tummy - and, being a complex protein, it takes longer to digest than the kibble, which travels quickly through the gut.   Remember, his stomach will only be the size of a a tomato at the moment.

Is he on 3 or 4 meals still?  Personally, I think I'd feed him his chicken wing in the morning, his kibble lunchtime, and then scrambled egg/yoghurt/weetabix next meal(s).

You'll be stopping the weetabix soon, and I'd use the kibble as the basis, and sloooowly change over.   But he can't manage a whole turkey yet! ;)

Margot

No need to be on the weetabix at all, got nothing in there of any possible use to the dog that it cannot find from a more appropriate source.

No need to slowly change over ONCE you understand and are comfortable with what you are doing re raw diet.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do for the best.

Hi Nat,

I've just been reading your other posts about the new addition ;) Congratulations, as your're aware, now the real hard work will begin :D And I don't envy you...............at the moment, I'm still going through it with a very immature 9 month old :rolleyes:

When I got Callia back in February, she had been on a complete puppy food, although my breeder feeds all of his adults raw. (long story) I fed my other 2 raw and the first day I thought I didn't want to change her routine too drastically so decided to try and stick with what she was used to. That lasted half a day.

By day 2 she was on raw completely and we've never looked back. No upset tummy, sickness etc, just a contented thriving pup ;) As I said though, I was already feeding raw so it wasn't a big change for me.

"Natural nutrion for cats & dogs" and "give your dog a bone" are very good books to read. As is the Britbarf website.
But as Tohme says, once you understand and are comfortable with what you're doing, if that's what you choose, it'll become clearer. :)

Tohme,

This is a quote from that post you linked to above:

>If you are feeding a puppy feed  2 - 3% of his projected adult weight or 10% of his present weight.

This may be a silly question, but does that mean 10% of his body weight a day? Or in each meal? As I said I have no idea about quantities!

I am awaiting the arrival of the suggested books, but trying to find some info so I can have a head start!

Thank you :D

Per Day :)

Thought as much, thank you kindly :D

Actually Margot, Andy recommended weetabix for breakfast (with lactol), the PP for mid-day and tea, and rice pudding for super, he hasn't had any rice pudding as he didn't seem to want any more food at night, and I think it would make him fat (but hey, what do I know?!!!)

Apart from the rice pudding we did follow that, as well as adding a chicken wing yesterday (probably why he didn't seem hungry last night) and he has had loads of treat's whilst we have been training. I think because of the amount of treats he is getting at the moment (because he is a clever boy!!) he isn't needing four meals. Today though he has had a chicken piece for breakfast, about 11.30 he had a nibble on a carrot, not a lot though and has had a lot of treat's but that is it, even though I have put his PP down. He is now fast asleep I have got some bones in the freezer should I just give him one of them when he wakes up?

Why don't you just use the kibble for the "treats" - its a lot easier that way :D!

Margot

I did try, but he just isn't interested in it at all!

He is eating the makeral at the moment, he seems to be enjoying them!

I don't know if it is just a coincidence but when he woke up he stood up and looked at me and then walked into the kitchen (where the back door is) he didn't actually go to the door but he just sat waiting for me, I took him out and two seconds later we were coming back in with an empty bladder!! :D He is so good :D

I would just like to add my bit re: raw and OneTwoThree's criticism of anything other than JWB or Burns!  I note almost the same reply to the Royal Canin thread!

A couple of years ago, I tried my 4 on raw chicken wings as I thought Curtis could do with fattening up, I had overheard another munster owner say at Crufts that since feeding raw chicken wings she had found her 2 dogs had put weight on terrifically...so I thought I'd follow suit.   Duly purchased a large pack of raw wings courtesy of the 'bottom slapping' supermarket.  The dogs toyed with them a bit and then down the hatch they went...good oh!     Next day, Curtis had diarrhoea, next day it was worse, next day he was at the vets getting treated for mild colitis.   So no more raw, I stick to complete (Kibbled) and ones that agree with my dogs, which now leads me to JWB and Burns.

My dogs love JWB but they have upset tums on it, every one of them.   Burns produces big dark cow pat poos with mine.    IMO you cannot do any better for a dog than Nutro, closely followed by Arden Grange or Franks Pro Gold.    Not every dog can tolerate JWB or Burns and infact there are a couple of other posters on this board whose dogs have the same reaction mine do, so I'm not alone.

I had trouble with JWB and Burns too.  JWB made them runny and windy.  Burns they didn't seem to enjoy and their coat went very dry and scurfy.

Christine, obviously no dog food is suitable for every dog in the world.  I'd have thought that was pretty obvious.

But personally I strongly believe that JWB and BUrns are the best dry dog foods available in this country at the moment.  They do suit the vast majority of dogs.  I do believe that, if someone has not tried them, they would be the first ones to try.  Obviously if they find they lead to bad effects which last longer than a week or so, they shouldn't use them anymore.  I'd have thought that was common sense??

Yes, there is almost the same reply on Royal Canin, because that's how I feel and I'm not going to change my opinion on what foods I think are best from one thread to the next!!!

I don't feed raw so I can't comment absolutely on this, but from people who do, I believe that there is a period during the change-over when a dog can get an upset tum, but if people persevere with it this almost always resolves.

I believe you can do better for _most_ dogs than giving them Nutro, Arden Grange or Franks Pro Gold.  I could give an ingredients breakdown to support this opinion.

Well I could show you photos of 2 Munsters that are shown and look pretty damn good on Nutro and looked thin & unconditioned on Burns - even the Active.

Munsters tend to thrive on a high fat diet and Nutro & Arden Grange gives them that.  All I wanted to add  to this thread is the fact that not everydog will suit JWB/Burns too.   

Upset stomach -v- colitis....yes, EVEN I know dietary changes can cause some looseness but I don't term colitis as temporary looseness!

I would say the same with my breed they need a deent amount of fat in the food for their coats, but also need less foood than advised for their size, so I like a good supply of vitamins rahter than the bare minimum, and as much of the protein from the more digestible and bio available animal sources as possible, so I went for foods that have a higher percentage of meat.

Mine did not get on well with any of the JEB, and from the proportions of meat in the Burns I didn't think it was good value for the price.

*Sigh*

"no dog food is suitable for every dog in the world"

"if someone has not tried them, they would be the first ones to try"

"better for _most_ dogs"

I could show you photos of street dogs that look great eating stale bread and garbage. 

That doesn't necessarily mean it's a good idea for _most_ dogs to eat stale bread and garbage.

So let me get this straight, if I fed JWB or Burns to my dogs, onetwothree, you would have no problem with this even though they could pebbledash a few houses with what came out the other end?

But because I chose to feed something they look well on and it agree's with them we get the *sighs*??????????    And a tone as if you were speaking to a naughty 5 year old!

Er, no Christine, the sighs are not because of what you choose to feed your dogs.  They are because I'm basically saying the same thing over and over again here, which isn't controversial and which is making no attacks on you, but which you've decided you want to argue with me about.  I don't know why, really.

"if I fed JWB or Burns to my dogs, onetwothree, you would have no problem with this even though they could pebbledash a few houses with what came out the other end"

*Sigh again*

Quote again from something I said previously:

"Obviously if they find they lead to bad effects which last longer than a week or so, they shouldn't use them anymore.  I'd have thought that was common sense??"

I'm not sure exactly what you want to take issue with so much in my replies.  Since you seem to be having problems understanding what I'm saying, here is a final summary:

I'm sure everyone has food preferences for their dogs and would recommend various foods to other owners.  My own, personal, preferences for a dry food are Burns and JWB.  This conclusion was reached after analysing the ingredients and comparing to other available foods on the market and also after being impressed at the difference when my own were fed it, and also after speaking to a canine nutritionist about it.  Like I said earlier (sigh again), if you have tried Burns or JWB and you find they have a bad effect on your dogs, then don't feed them.  However, if someone had not tried either Burns or JWB on their dog, my advice would be to try those first.  The original poster has not yet tried them, so my advice remains - to try those first.  If they don't suit, then obviously, like I said, they shouldn't stay on them. 

I'm not sure exactly what is so controversial about any of that?