God knows I don't want to but she jumped up and appeared to mouth a little boy (about 9) running past us in a pub garden yesterday.  She suddenly lunged up, taking me by total surprise, and ran barking at him, jumped up twice and appeared to make contact.  The kid didn't seem phased and ran off but then later, a father walked past with a little girl (maybe 5) and my dog again lunged, barked but this time didn't take me by surprise and I kept hold of her.  I got her from the RSPCA just over a week ago. She's a four year old field bred Springer and was homed with at least one boy for four years.  The old owners handed in three dogs citing their son's illness as the need to rehome i.e. couldn't cope with the dogs. Tilly is a shy dog and is very timid with new people so this behaviour seems out of character. She's been beaten at some point so maybe kids teased her?  I don't think the children yesterday reminded her of her old home as I don't think she was playing but could be wrong.  I obviously need to ring the RSPCA and try to get them to ring the old owners to check how Tilly was with her old kids and I obviously need to muzzle her.  I don't want to.  Can anyone recommend a gentle, effective muzzle that she won't notice is on?

Remember she's very unsettled at the moment, so will be nervous and not showing her true character at all. It'll be several weeks before you see the 'real' Tilly. In the meantime let her settle in gently with you and carefully and gradually increase the amount of stresses you put her under.

There's no muzzle you can put on a dog that it won't notice

As you don't know much about her(even what the previous owner told the RSPCA might be a pack of lies) I would suggest some dog training classes, go first without her so you can see how the training goes & chat to the trainers about her. I recommend dog training classes for socialization with rescue dogs(we get loads at ours !)& also for you to learn techniques of training & handling your dog.

Also Gwen Bailey has a good book about owning a rescue dog as does Joyce Stranger(you can get this one direct from Joyce & it is good she also has other books on training & rescue dogs)if you want details I'll post them up as they aren't on any website). Joyce's book is from her personal experience of owning a rescue dog & from helping people train theirs. Joyce has been training dogs forever & only advocates kind methods.(she has lots of "problem"rescue dogs in her classes)

Hi Jeangenie and Moonmaiden.  Thanks for the recommendations.  I am having one-on-one training at the moment so as not to over-face a timid, unsettled dog.  Last week we discussed her diet and this week we should get onto heel work (or at least walking on a slacker lead, pray God).  I'm going to start classes when Tilly is a happier, more confident dog.  She's very clingy at the moment and a bit protective, which is understandable.  We meet other dogs on walks and she's pretty much OK.  We ask friends to come to the house and her tail goes straight between her legs and she cowers, but she's pretty good if we meet people on walks.  My other half is taking her to his family for Christmas and we will drive up to stay with them for a couple of nights before then as his sister has a Doberman and there will be a fair few number of people there, including a child who may try to wind Tilly up but will be warned firmly by me of the consequences if she does!  One can only wonder at what the kids Tilly lived with did to her to make her want to bark and jump up at other children.  Me?  No kids.  I like four legs better than two!!!!

We get lots & I mean sometimes a whole class of rescues(some new & some old) & if people just want to sit & watch with their dogs that's fine, which is why I always tell people to go without their dog so you can see how the dogs & handlers are. My puppy is going througha bark at strangers stage, but he is starting to relax now & loves the other dogs. Last week we even quietly played tuggie whilst the others worked & there were people all around

One to one training is ok, but the only way to socialize is to mix the dog & dog clubs are more controlled than public places.

I would try T Touch with your dog, it's used in lots of rescues & uses the bodies own endorphins to relax the dog, if you put Linda Tellington-Jones into any search engine you will find her site & there are web pages explaining about T T ouch & how to massage your dog at home.

It sounds to me like your dog had some teasing or maltreatment from children in the past or is not used to their quick movements, I had a rescue bitch, who was terrified of children, but as long as they didn't move too quickly & didn't scream & shout like some children seem to do as a norm they she would ignore them totally

Funnily enough Moonmaiden, it was the one-to-one trainer (£35 a throw) who said not to go into classes too soon.  I might take Tilly to a class tomorrow night to observe and if she seems unhappy, I'll take her home then try her for longer next week.  I guess if we went to an advanced class, the dogs shouldn't be too barky?  I'll look at the T Touch thing - I just want a happy, confident dog and will do whatever it takes to achieve this. I might be a bit soft.

I always wonder why one to one trainers nearly always try to discourage people from going to training classes, strictly speaking I train dogs with problems not the handlers, but if someone has real problems I will do this, but always advise them to attend dog training clubs as well, if only to socialize their dog

Nothing to do with the earnings they would lose if the dog was ok at the dog club of course or is it just me be cynical ?

T Touch will help build the relationship between you & her & I've yet to meet a dog that didn't like it

Moon,

I wonder if you would post details of Joyce's work.
this strikes a particular chord with me and my rescue husky... we'd love to hear her experiences (and know we'r not alone!!! tho' sometimes it can feel that way!)

many thanks!!!!!!!!

Hi tingalay.

No new advice to offer but some sympathy from someone who has been a similar situation.  Take what Jeangenie and Moonmaiden say to heart.  You don't really know this dog yet and with rescue dogs (if you're at all like me) sometimes we fear every 'negative' act hints at further horrors to come.  Don't panic. Sometimes these behaviours come from nowhere and go the same way. (Though I'm sure she'll think of something else to stop you getting complacent...)

Get to know the dog but muzzle her if that gives you the confidence to do so in public situations.  She probably won't like it but, until she learns to control herself, she has to be controlled for her own sake. Still, seems like this little girl has one stroke of good luck - you. Hope things work out for you both.

Best wishes, Linda

Awwww, thanks Linda!  Wise words.  I think Tilly likes the undevoted attention and love she's getting, she is such a sweetheart! She was with two other dogs before, picked on, beaten etc etc and now she's just a cuddly shy girl who seems to worry about going back into kennels so she sticks close and gives lots of love.  Shame she keeps rolling on/in nasty things!!!!!!  Muzzling would really be a last resort but if my brother comes round with his kids and she goes for one of them, I'll never hear the last of it - my sister-in-law and eldest nephew are scared of dogs.  Stupid people.  I've never been bitten by a dog (or hamster).  Funny how some people are "animal people".  Still, I don't want her to bite cos then I might have her taken away from me and that would break my heart - I'd feel like I'd let her down.  I might try walking her near schools at kicking out time and see how she acts on the lead.

I don't think that people who are frightened of dogs are necessarily stupid :) My son was petrified of dogs after being jumped on by friends OES when he was a small boy. When he was nearly 16 we got a rescue dog and now, six years and two dogs later, he is a dog fan :)

My rescue dog was/is very nervous of strangers and we find the best thing to do when we have visitors is to shut both the dogs in the kitchen and then let them out once the visitors have sat down and we have explained to them the 'dog' rules (our older dog does not like strangers stroking him and is also nervous of strangers standing up suddenly). People are more than happy to go along with our rules and the dogs usually settle very quickly :) Put a lead on her if you think that is safest and don't let anyone wind her up - it's your house :D If it's all a bit much for her, put her back into another room.

Daisy

I apologise to anyone who may have been offended by me saying that people who are scared of dogs are stupid.  It is natural to have a fear of things.  Snakes, for instance, scare me witless.  My sister-in-law is scared of dogs which meant my parents gorgeous Samoyed could never come into the house if she and her kids were there.  He loved kids and hated being shut outside.  Now we don't have him anymore and I hate her for not making the effort to getting to know the most chilled, loving dog that ever existed.  And she transferred her fear to one of her kids by telling her the damage that a dog could do it if wanted.  I mean, if it was a rational fear i.e. she'd had a nasty experience with a dog, such as Daisy's son, than fair play, but you have to give dogs a chance if someone swears blind they are as docile as they come.  Of course, you could say that I should make friends with a docile snake.  Yeah, right!  It's a bit different, isn't it!?!??!  :-)   Anyway, apologies again for my sweeping generalisation.  Mind you, some people who are scared of dogs ARE stupid. What's not to love?