This is the first time I have posted a message here, but I've found reading through other people's topics and comments really helpful and was hoping that perhaps someone could offer me some advice.

We have a five year old golden retriever who is so soft it's untrue. However, very occassionally he will fight with other dogs. It seems to start when he tries to mount them I think, and then they snap and the fight starts. This doesn't happen often and sometimes the other dog snapping is enough to scare him off, but other times - like today - a fight develops. In fact today scared me a bit. We met another golden retriever being walked - on the lead and mine was off. At first it was waggy tails, then my dog's ears went back and I think he tried to either jump up at or mount the other dog. It was a minor scuffle, but the owner became very abusive - shouting and swearing at me. I pulled my dog off, said sorry - he was still shouting and swearing - quietly said 'OK, calm down', put my dog on the lead and walked away. I found reading the postings about aggressive behaviour of owners useful and will just avoid this chap in future. However, can anyone make any suggestions as to how I can stop/control this behaviour in my dog. We had him castrated two years ago because of this problem and it seemed to work, but I really don't want him to start fighting again and I want him to be able to socialise with other dogs.

Firstly can I ask if your dog is nuetered ? Also it can be very annoying when people have their dogs on a lead and under control if another dog comes and tries to mount him,can you try to train Barney to come to you straight away you see another dog,or better still only let him off where there are no other dogs,and then you can try walking him on th e lead through busy areas where he will meet other dogs and people and you can teach him the correct behaviour.
It sounds like Barney is dominant have you had him from a puppy ?
Im sure more technical advice will be forthcoming here.
good luck

Yes he is neutered and we have had him from a puppy. Usually he will come back when called if there is another dog, but I thought this one would be OK so let him go which was perhaps the mistake as he was then not under control. I see your the point that it would be annoying for other people for my dog to try and mount them and didn't see it from that point of view. As with all problems I guess there are no bad dogs just bad owners, and perhaps I need to tighten up control with him a bit.

I wouldnt think you were a bad owner at all else why would you ask for advice,sometimes things happen they are after all animals and we dont often think of that.
Barney perhaps finds certain dogs offensive,and dont forget they can give out vibes to each other without you knowing it.
Hope you enjoy this site its great for any queries you may have or advice you may have for others.
Best wishes

Right I'll take a deep breath and try to help if only just a little. First I have no qualifications so feel free to ignore me but I think inappropriate mounting is a domance thing, my bitch, who is my top dog, will do it to my dogs, who take a dim view but dare not complain. Think your dog is doing the same sort of thing to dogs he meets, it is not a sexual thing it is because he wishes to let the other dog know he is top dog. Now all that does not help stop it, I think you have got to let him know your in charge and you are not happy with his behaviour. sounds easy said like that but it's not. You will have to start being more forceful with him and keep it up, don't allow any behaviour that allows him to dictate how things happen. ie if he demands food or attention from you withhold until he earns it by a sit stay or down stay. Try to be aware of his intentions when you are out walking and get in first with a NO and call him to you and don't put up with being ignored. If you can't control him at the present time keep him on the lead until you have more control. You could go back to training classes, explain to the trainer the problem you have and if they sound at all doubtfull try somewere else as you need someone who is prepared to help not tell you your dog is disruptive. I don't think your dog is aggresive he is dominant and is OK until the other dog complains when he feels the need to put it in its place and I think you need to behave toward him in the same way. Do hope you can over come this problem I'm sure you can but it will take time as you have to go back and re-train. Jackie H

It would be interesting to know more about why you originally had him neutered; you said it was because of this but did he actually get into fights, attack first if so, or was it just that he mounted?

I wonder if he is actually a dominant dog, as all dominant dogs will have a "forward" body language when attacking; you did say his ears were back. Some dogs will attack because they just cannot cope with certain other types of dog.

Also if a dog is dominant, in the true sense, other dogs will accept him/her as boss and there will rarely be a fight, unless with another dog who considers itself boss. It is usually the middle ranking dogs who fight actually within a pack (and these dogs are sometimes mistaken for the pack leaders).

My breeder friend has a large dog pack - about 12 - 15 large dogs, depending on whether she is involved in rescues at the time - and the leader is a huge but calm and authoritative dog. Never fights. But all the others know he is boss.

It is interesting that the other dog was on a lead....was it a place where normally dogs would be off lead? Maybe the other dog was aggressive and on lead becauseof it, so when your dog went to say hallo, subtle signals were exchanged and there was a fight.

Agree it is not a good idea to let an off lead dog go up to one on lead. You do need more control over your fella, I would be looking for a good "Leave it" command, maybe, which may work better than a recall if the dog is actually very close to the othert dog.

If you would like advice on how to teach this, i can help. Just ask :) You need to be confident that your dog will leave a running animal or a dog squaring up to him, so it does take work.

Also try to read what is happening more, to anticipate what your dog may do. And if he loves toys, keep a special one for walks and play with him a few times during the walk when he has been good. Keep it fairly special though, so he really wants that toy!!

Best wishes
Lindsay

Lindsay - thanks for the offer of help. I'm pretty confident I could get him to leave another dog squaring up to him as he was OK with this before - I need to re-train him though. I'm not confident I could get him to stop chasing a running animal though so any help you could offer with respect to both the first instance and this would be much appreciated.

HI BArneydog :)

Here's how i teach the Leave It; I will try to keep it concise so if you don't understand anything just ask again!

I start with a food treat - something nice and smelly such as liver, chicken etc. It must be something he loves.

Sit on a chair with dog on lead. Hold treat in fist, tightly closed.

He will try to get the treat, will push at your hand etc, but will eventually sit back and look at you. (Ignore any other behaviour such as barking, or whatever. Wait until he "gives up")

When he does, open hand and let him have it (the treat that is! :D )

Make sure he removes his nose each time before you allow him the treat. Keep hand still, so he has to effectiveley move towards you to get the treat from your open hand.

Next - introduce the words; Leave It or whatever, and "Take it, Yours, OK" etc for when he is allowed the food.

Next, practice with an open hand every time...make sure he does not get the food if he does try to snatch, but he should be getting the idea by this stage.

He starts to realise Leave It means he never ever gets what he is after....but it is OK that he has the treat later, as it is on your say-so.

Then progress to treat on the floor, dog still on lead, same scenario. Your hand or foot should be ready to cover up the treat ..... in case!!!

It is so great when the dog just sits back and looks at you, knowing that is the only way to get the reward.

i use this as a basic exercise to start the dog off with the idea of what is required from him.

To generalise - VERY important - do this out on walks too, else he will only obey in your living room or wherever LOL!! :)

Next, on a walk, practice letting him sniff boring items; when he is nearly ready to move on, ask him to Leave It and when he does treat him and praise. (I use a clicker but it's OK if you dont want to or don't know how).

Next, progress out and about (but do it on a relaxed lead) to Leaving other dogs. At first make good use of your dog's critical distance and start well away fr0m other dogs, gradually over weeks get closer. Maybe get dog owning friends to help!

This is where knowing your dog's ultimate reward also comes in handy: by this stage I personally have progressed to Kong on a rope thrown as a reward as this is my girl's favourite game.

Meanwhile, to really sharpen up all this, get 2 toys. One he thinks is OK, one he adores utterly. Have him on a lead (I prefer to use a harness here as he won't get jerked) and throw his least favourite toy. AS he runs, shout "Leave It" and, if you have done the groundwork, he will immediately return to you for his best toy.

If at all possible dont let him get hold of the "OK" toy; the whole point is to teach a dog it ALWAYS fails when it hears those magic words "Leave It". A return to the handler may mean something nice though :)

Practice the last few exercises often, set your dog up to succeed and be confident about what you have on offer. It is important to not just rely on food here - by this stage, it is the relationship between you and your dog that counts. He must respect your control, know he will fail if he tries to go on after hearing the magic words, and be keen to return to you for praise and fun.

Done regularly this will give you great control and you can be confident.

My bitch who LOVES to chase put up a fallow deer a few days ago, just a few feet form her, and i was able to be calm, say "Leave it" in a normal voice, and she Left It - raced back to me at high speed for next instructions. I did of course give her a huge rerward of a Kong chase because she deserved it :) and i was overjoyed!!!.Just wanted to say that so you know I am not talking out of my wotsit :D and it really does work in real life emergency situations.

I consider I am in fact still training her on all this thiough; but at the end of the day you are aiming for owner confidence, and also to know the dog may not necessarily get a reward every single time. I still like to surprise with rewards though because I love her face when she gets one!! I get something out of it too :)I also feel in the case of such an important command, she will respond immediatley and not half heartedly so I tend to keep up the toys on this one.

If your dog does a half hearted Leave It at any stage, don't give a reward at all unless you are early on in the training. You have to gradually "up" the criteria so that only the very best response will do :)

Sorry this is sooo long,I did try to condense it, honest I did! HTH a bit anyway.

LIndsay

Hi Lindsay
that post was great! really interesting, I am having a few problems with my boxer, she if five months old, when we are out walking she will come back to me straight away if nothing more interesting is around eg. dogs, joggers, bikes and footballers, she does come back after she has been to investigate but will never come back when she is in full pelt to see them. At the moment I am keeping her on the lead as I cant trust her 100% to come back, someone told me this is a trait with boxers and she will always be like this as they are easily distracted but I am determined to train her to do it, One question for you though, when she does come back I give her a treat but as soon as she has had the treat she legs it off again. I dont want to put her on the lead when she comes back as she will just associate coming back with going on the lead and will never come back. Any suggestions on how to get them to stay with you once they do come back. We are going to start practising your "leave it" method tomorrow

Thanks
Sam and Nellie x

HI Sam and Nellie

YOur boxer sounds lovely; I hope the way I teach Leave It helps !! :)

Remember to make sure your youngster is very good at once stage before moving onto the next, and if you have problems, either the reward is not good enough, you are being boring<g>, or you have gone too far too fast.

It takes a while to get a reliable Leave It, (I feel), so enjoy all the training and building a great relationship with your boxer. It should all be good fun :)

Dont be tempted to use the command in tempting situations too soon. Patience is the key, adn keep practicing :)

YOu could teach her separately too, to wait until you have her collar, when she comes back, then reward her. Then, use a release word, which is her word for being allowed to run off again. I use "Ok" for most situations.

Good luck,

Best wishes
Lindsay

Hi Watching sky this morning, A Programme about Monkeys and do you know that the alpha monkey always will do this mounting thing too
the lesser monkeys to prove he is in charge male or female It was so interesting this I think may
apply to dogs as well.

Patxx

I am still inclined to think it is a dominance thing, he only becomes aggresive if the other dog grumbles, that is how I read the original post, lets have more detail of what happens if you can remember, is there no trouble if the mounted dog does not respond or just moves away, I don't mean vocalisation from your dog but an actual attack, are you able to say what leads up to the attack or the mounting and where are you when it happens and how do you responed. If the mounted dog snaps and your dog gives way is the other dog larger or of a imposing build.

Just to say I do feel for you it is most unpleasent to be shouted at in public made worse if you know at heart the situation is your fault. This does not make you a bad or uncarring owner, prof is you posted this question, but I'm not sure that we can help over the net, think you may have to find help in the flesh as it were. Wish you all the best and for the time being keep him on the lead. Jackie H

Just a thought, if this behaviour (the aggresion not the mounting) has just restarted have the dog to the vet for a health check, could just be something is not as it should be, or has your lifestyle changed in any way, new baby, new partner, new rotine or some other change could have given the dog the idea that his status has changed. But I still think it is just part of his nature and you are going to have to re-train. Jackie H

Hello Barneydog,

I would like to support and agree with the Post from Jackie. I also feel that you are not making it clear to your dog (at home) that you are the one in charge. Your dog is feeling the need to assert himself as and when the occasion should arise, simply because his place is not totally clear to him and your position is a grey area in relation to him.

Before you say "I do have good control in the home" - let me tell you a quick story:-

I recently 'home visited' someone who claimed that their dog was very well behaved indoors, he was told several times to Sit while walking between the feet of the Owner who was sitting down, then told "Good Boy". He was told to lie down, (three times), he did, then he got up, Owner repeated command, he laid down again, then a moment later up again, Owner repeated etc etc.

Now I explained to the Owner, that her inconsistency and acceptance of the dog NOT responding immediately was indicating to the dog a lack of authority, she did not even make it clear that she was annoyed with the dog, i.e. for getting up again when told to lie down. Why should he comply first time - she did not mind. - and if she did not mind - who was she anyway to take notice of!!!!

So look what happens in the home, do you REPEAT commands to the dog? Do you infact tell the dog to do anything? Try getting him to lie down in a spot of YOUR choosing (not his own choice), and make sure he stays put for at least 10 minutes. If when you tell him to do something such as Sit and he complies but SLOWLY, he is responding but in HIS TIME - not good enough! - tell him off, and enforce the desired reponse immediately, by guiding kindly but firmly, and confidently too.

Hope this helps,
Denise.

Apologies if the start of this message appears twice! Not used to posting things yet! Thanks for all the replies - it's been really useful reading through everyone's comments. With the retriever incident there were a few things that I should have watched for. Firstly, the other dog is always on a lead in a place where most people let theirs off, and the guy usually avoids other dogs. Secondly, the other dog was on a lead - under control - and I let Barney wander up - completely out of control - when I should have kept him either at my side or put him on the lead straight away. Usually he is quite good and will stay away from other dogs if I tell him, but I think someone's comments about how he is at home are quite true lately and I have let things slip a bit. I think I need to assert myself a bit and get back in control.

I agree that the mounting thing is probably down to dominance. With small dogs he seems to get on really well and not bother to try and dominate them. If anything, he's subservient to them. The problem seems to arise with dogs the same size as him. His body language when he approaches is that he stands quite tall and his ears go back and he starts sniffing them before trying to mount. If both dogs are off the lead, a snap from the other one will usually suffice and he backs off. However, because this latest incident developed into a fight, I think he was out of control and out of respect to other owners I need to have a firmer grip on him.

This kind of thing hasn't happened for six months or so, but the latest incident - and all your comments - have made me realise I need to put a little effort in on the training front with him.

Thanks for all the help!

If we have helped I'm glad, it seems to me that you have a grip on the situation and a full understanding of your dog and I'm sure you will be able to avoid any more unpleasent situations in the future. What you discribe sounds like normal behaviour to me and you will be able to correct it with out too much trouble. Jackie H